goodcatjack

The world has limited resources.

There are people willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want.

Once there is the imminent threat of deadly force, the only rule is survival.

This can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere.

This is how the world is. Either be prepared to defend yourself, or be prepared to be a victim. If you don't think it can happen to you, dear reader, you aren't reading your news or history.

I'm not happy about this, but that's just the way it goes.

And just to keep this sort of on topic, you are perfectly capable of concealing a pistol on your person, under the jersey in an inside-the-waistband holster which is on a belt you wear soley for this purpose. but never, never, never, never, never, never wield a level of force which you are not trained and willing to use. IMO, if you can't go from deadly threat assessment to sights-on-target-2-shots-to-center-of-mass within approximately 2-3 seconds, you need to reconsider how you're carrying.

The Rule of 3: defensive encounters occur within 3 feet, are over in 3 seconds or less and 3 or fewer shots are fired.

--alex.

Merriwether

Why is it that people who obviously don't know anything about guns insist the most indignantly on giving advice about guns to everyone else?

Look, they're called "holsters" and a minute's search on the internet will reveal a host of them that allow secure, concealed carry along with quick draw time. If you ever have any training in firearm use-- as many of us have-- you'll understand better. I won't hold my breath waiting for that.

In the meantime, why do you offer tactical advice about matters you obviously don't know a d*mn thing about?

You seem to have gotten one thing right, though: pepper spray is a very good item to have. It won't substitute for a gun, but it will provide a good defensive tool on many occasions. It is adequate for nearly any situation you'll face. (Though why you're sure you can escape from "5 or 6" muggers with pepper spray, but not with a gun, is anyone's guess.)

I'll add this, too. You're right that guns are a serious matter. They're not for playing around, they're not for "getting tough", they're not for showing anyone you're a badass. They're for life and death emergencies. That's it. As liberal sensibilities and pepper spray aren't yet sufficient for all such emergencies, some people simply want to be prepared in case the unthinkable happens. I know it's appalling that such people think that someone *gasp* other than government employees is responsible enough to own a gun, but there it is.

orguasch

the bike itself is a weapon, you can lift the bike and just go for it , I mean if some crazy motorist will try to harrass you then you can use you bike as a weapon,, on one instance I have use my front tire to defend my self from an overzealous motorist who wanted to show off to his girlfriend that he can intimidate me, That made him think twice now before he harrass any cyclist from now on, he got his driver side window got busted....or we may say got broken

orguasch

as my old man would say its very easy to get in trouble with the law, but very hard to get away from it.... at least with a bike as a weapon you got a sporting chance in getting an acquital if you happen to kill the son of a b......

Copper6

Go to your local library and read the your State Code for "Deadly Weapons/CCW". Read it a couple of times at least...then make your decision as to whether you want to carry a baton. And if you feel that you want to carry a baton....keep in mind that for a defense of self-defense, you must have felt that your life was in eminent danger. This defense is easier said than done. Also, that baton is made for one reason...to batter!

Pete Clark

The best defense, in my opinion, is your head.

urban_assault

Just curious B-n-D, are you riding to and from practices or gigs? If it is anywhere I'm thinking about around here, then I use stealth techniques. I try to get through the areas without anyone noticing me.

If I know the road then I might turn off my headlight and use the streetlights to see, then no one sees me coming. I don't wait for traffic signals or stop at stop signs. If there is no traffic then I'll ride towards the middle of the road to stay away from debris that would cause flat tires.

I also vary my routes so I'm not passing the same spots at the same time every day. I work on a dead end street in an industrial area known as a stolen car dumping ground and sometimes I leave late at night. I'm always thinking about my safety but carrying a weapon doesn't appeal to me. I'd probably hurt myself.

Alexey

This is the idea, which may be developed. Sort of Bike-Foo.

I already can envision a technique, where a cyclist rotates bike around, like Ninjas or Shao-Lin monks do with their martial tools.

The seat post can be used instead of a baton, the forward wheel with quick release may be thrown to knock out a distant target.

I will try to wield my bike like this on today's ride.

Alexey

I am not taking sides in the eternal US firearms argument. The problem, however, as it seems to me, is that not everyone understands "defend yourself" correctly or equally. I mean this:

2 dead in Oklahoma shooting spree

In our country firearms are not allowed for civilians without special permit (read - only determined criminals own them).

Bikes-N-Drums

Yes, practice is near North & Glen Iris and I'm sure you know what life is like over there. I also work in an industrial area which is punctuated by three no-tell motels and a hispanic gangster nightclub. I love livin' in the city!
urban_assault and all: thanks for the good advice

Bumbaclat

This an interesting thread. Topics like this can reveal the type of person one is, of how one sees the world around them.

That being said, my view of whether carrying of a gun for protection is really simple, and it can be really simple for a lot of people if you ask yourself the following question:

Do you think your own mother or wife or girlfriend or sister or friend should be allowed to protect themselves against ******* and murderers?

The pacifists, cowards, wimps and ******* will trot out all sorts of arguments, stats and questions that are rather irrevalent when faced with thought of some psycho dragging your wife into the woods to be *****, tortured and murdered.

Big Johnson

Where I live, each county has it's own policy reguarding concealed weapons. Fortunately, El Paso county allows carrying a concealed firearm if one has the appropriate permit. I personally don't carry my pistol when riding for various reasons. For one, my bike and everything I carry on it is relatively easy to replace. Second, allthough I have trained extensively with all types of firearms since early childhood, I believe it would be impossible to shoot from a moving bike accurately and hit only my intended target. Also, dismounting or coming to a stop limits one's ability to escape from an attacker. Have no illusions, taking a human life is a terrible thing and should not even be thought about unless one has a very solid reason to believe he has no other choice than to kill or be killed. That said, a firearm allows a level of personal security much greater than any non lethal weapon will give you. I generally will avoid bad areas of town whenever possible, and I am allways aware of my surroundings but you never know. Whenever I must pass through a nieghborhood we refer to as "Little Harlem" for example, I am especially prepared for the possibility of confrontation. It has happened many times to many people without provocation. There are predators in our society and I for one, refuse to be prey.

Copper6

I find it somewhat oxymoron when I read posts about buying carbon bikes in order to shave ounces/pounds off the weight of a bike. Then I read posts about someone packing some sh*t. I have read a couple of posts that read that they carried .45's. That in itself is a pound of weight and more.

goodcatjack

so what?

it's not supposed to be comfortable; it's supposed to be comforting.

I agree. But it doesn't mean I'm willing to be defenseless when I'm loading the bike onto the car, getting gas on the way to the trail, unloading, taking a breather during the ride, getting back to the parking area, reloading the car, on the drive back home, etc etc etc. Who said anything about only shooting from a moving bike?

the erstwhile Swiss Cycle Regiment and their bicycle:
https://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclu...s/model93.html


Once Pandora's Box is open, there's no closing it, for better or for worse. The only people who'll obey those laws will be law-abiding people who by definition won't be "determined criminals" in the first place. These laws simply disarm people who are the very same people targeted by these determined criminals, who now have unarmed potential victims.

You know, I always get sick of these arguments. They'll never be won, and they usually end in flames. But I just can't keep my mouth shut -- sorry, Joe.

So, sometimes when I get this frustrated, I try to end on a positive note that no-one can argue, so here it is:

I went on a ride today. It was a good one. I had plenty of time and a nice rest the night before and I'm just feeling pretty damn good in general because I have a new girlfriend and life is just sweet. So I'm out there and the sky is blue and I'm singing to myself to get through the hard climbs and I'm looking down and seeing some good speed because I'm sticking with quitting smoking because the aforementioned girlfriend hates it and like I said, life is just so freaking sweet. I get done with my twenty or so miles and it's back to the house, my new one I just bought a month and half ago, with a good deal more square footage than I need and a greenhouse and a skylight over my bed and later on I know I'm going horseback riding with Stephanie and I said it before and I'll say it again -- life is sweet. It's tough and it can be so, so hard but there's so many things to get done before the day is through but I can do it because I'm capable and I've made my own space around me and damnit,

life

is

sweet.

It's worth defending. By any means necessary.

That's it, I'm through with this thread. peace ...

--alex.

Alexey

Why can not you cycle to the trail? You will have less valuables with you, I mean there will be no expensive car.

The best defence is poverty. If one's stuff looks not-new, one will hardly be robbed.

That is why I try to buy the best equipment I can afford and use it for a long time. After a year or two things do not look new, but good stuff serves for many years, even if it is scratched or something.

This my private policy coincides with guidlines of Green Peace, which advises to use things as long as one can.

Life is definitely worth of defending. But what is the most real threat to life nowadays? Driving and shooting at training ranges with chemical ammo just contributes to the most realistic threat.

Bikes-N-Drums

Why I'll be ditching my telescopic baton....

Speak of the devil. Over the weekend an incident occurred with two acquaintences. At the train station the two of them had a knife pulled on them. A scuffle ensued, but one of the two had a telescopic baton. It took the attacker down immediately, however, it was at this point that witnesses began to take notice of what was happening and what it looked like was two white kids beating the hell out of a black guy with a metal rod...plus combined with the adrenaline of the moment, one of the guys didn't leave it at just one smack and the assailant was taken away to the hospital. Then again, as it was stated to me, they 'pulled a Rodney King on his ass'. Now both of the acquaintences are sitting in jail. There is that line between what is considered self-defense and what is considered excessive force. Personally, I think that knife-wielding muggers who get the stuffing beat out of them have received an instant karma. However, I'm switching to pepper spray.

Bumbaclat

Dude! Get both! Blind the bastard, then hit him! Then run! Fast!

Guest

Don't switch... just exercise more self-control... hit your attacker enough to stop the threat to your person. Pepper spray won't stop a seasoned preditor.

Alan Perkins

This thread is amazing.

:confused:

Copper6

B-N-D...wtg. I think you will be better off. Make sure the spray has capsaicin in it. That's the good ingredient. The bottle should have +P on it also. Also, you want the "stream" spray, not the mist. That crap will blow back on you!