Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-12-02, 08:03 PM   #1
Falchoon
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Falchoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oz
Bikes:
Posts: 922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Lauderdale man charged with hate crime for running over bicyclist


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...news%2Dbroward

A Fort Lauderdale man grabbed the steering wheel of the car his girlfriend was driving and struck a bicyclist because the rider was black, a Broward Sheriff's Office spokeswoman said Thursday.

Kenneth Frank Greer, 43, was charged with aggravated battery, but he faces stiffer penalties if convicted because the incident has been classified as a hate crime.

About 11 a.m. Wednesday Greer and his girlfriend were driving east in the 800 block of Hammondville Road in Pompano Beach as Corey Nesmith, 25, was crossing the street.

"They were doing about 55, 50 mph and then the car just ran right into me," Nesmith said Thursday. "That's it. Out of nowhere. Just hit me.

"I was dazed," he said. "I saw [the man] coming to pick up his hubcap and side-view mirror so I grabbed him because I thought he was going to leave me, and I held him there until the police came."

Nesmith had no idea he was targeted because he was black. Neither did deputies until Greer got back to the police station and unleashed a string of racial slurs and equated black people with "crack dealers," Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Veda Coleman-Wright said.

"It doesn't surprise me," Coleman-Wright said. "Bigotry and prejudice have been in our country for centuries. ... Am I disappointed? Yes. But it doesn't surprise me at all, and it's not going away any time soon."

Nesmith, who escaped with scrapes and bruises, said he wasn't angry about what happened.

"I don't hate nobody," he said. "I'm not mad at anybody. They got him. It doesn't matter."

Nesmith's mother, Gussie Williams, was not so forgiving.

"They need to keep him [in jail] for life or how long he can stay in there because he doesn't need to be out here in society being like that," she said. "He's got to deal with life out here in society. If he can't deal with that, he needs to be elsewhere."
Falchoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-02, 08:16 PM   #2
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That area is actually fairly close to me but I avoid it because it is a "rough" section of low income housing ,strip bars etc.I had also seen the headline but didn't read the article because I try to ignore negative news ,incidents like this that the media loves to dweal on.I guess it takes something this blatent for Broward police to side against the motorist.l
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-02, 09:00 PM   #3
moo2
Junior Member
 
moo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm also from close-by. And like RWTD I too avoid that part of town for its "roughness". I'm not black, but it still makes me a little nervous riding after reading a story like that. I've read others' stories about similar, if not worse experiences, but have never had anything remotely like this happen to me.

I've never been hit, never had anything thrown at me, never been shot by a paintball gun (as someone on usenet recently related). Usually I have pleasant rides, with one or two rude a$$#0 *cough* motorists thrown in to spice things up.

It just hits close to home (literally) to read of such an event in your own back yard. The article doesn't say weather the young man was an avid cyclist or someone just out for a ride to get from point A to pont B, but I don't think it matters.

I have a feeling that if this guy is going to attempt to murder someone just because he's black, he wouldn't have much compassion for me with my shaved legs, and girly spandex fashion choices (yes I'm a guy / yes I'm hetero).

Unfortunately I think society in general is on the decline, and this just adds to that assumption.

Lately, due to lack of daylight and long working hours, I've been riding in the early morning. I get up in the dark at 5:00 AM, put on my arm warmers and lights, and head out. I've got the roads mostly to myself, and it's great. No cars, no sunscreen, no worries. I even saw another cyclist this morning. Usually I don't see any other cyclists around here, except on organized rides. I just said "hi" today, but if I see him tomorrow, I think I'll try to make a new riding partner.

My point is: If you're getting skittish like me about riding due to our four wheeled friends, and weather permits, don't discount the early morning ride, it's great! Most likely, the lynchin' squad will still be sleeping off that case of Milwaukee's Best from last night, so you should be relatively safe.
moo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-02, 09:29 PM   #4
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Now that I think about it a disproportionate number of the (infrequent)hateful yelling incidents I have encountered lately have been in the Pompano Bch area .I agree early morning rides are ideal in Fl I like to start around 4:30 or earlier on long rides up to Jupiter and back.I also have had no real incidents while cycling and don't like too dweal on these things as they will just be more likely to occur or affect my enjoyment of the ride.
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-02, 10:24 PM   #5
Duffy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The idea of a "hate crime" nauseates me. It is no more worse a crime if the victim were white,black,yellow,pink or blue. The fact remains that a crime against another person occurred and the criminal should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Duffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-02, 10:46 PM   #6
TLN
Senior Member
 
TLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: T-Town
Bikes: '86 Bianchi Super Leggera
Posts: 468
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have to TOTALLY agree with Duffy. I dont want to take anything away from the victim here but what do you think the charges would be if the guy (who was hit) was white. It surely wouldnt be a hate crime. I am so sick of this PC bullsh!t. Call it like it is, a crime is a crime is a crime no matter what color you are.

I dont know what is more stupid, calling a violent crime a "hate crime" depending on what races are involved or the PC people who are trying so hard to get rid of racism yet are keeping it alive and well with stupid ideas such as this.

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers
TLN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-02, 12:46 AM   #7
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well Pompano Bch is an odd place .Given the size of the black population there its amazing the number of hateful crackers running around sporting confederate flags.If they aren't calling blacks names they are calling spandex clad bikers or some other group names.It's more like rural Ga. than So.Fl. so I really have no symphathy for these types engaging in premeditated ,unprovoked violence even though i don't tend to be political correct or not.
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-02, 06:52 AM   #8
MikeR
Very Senior Member
 
MikeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Central Pa
Bikes: 2000 Bianchi San Remo and a mint 1984 Trek 720
Posts: 1,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
The idea of a "hate crime" nauseates me
That's because it is a THOUGHT crime.
As much as we all dislike prejudice, the idea of a thought crime seems too Orwellian.
__________________
It's better to cycle through life than to drive by it.
MikeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-02, 06:56 AM   #9
threadend
Career Cyclist
 
threadend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Falchoon
..."I don't hate nobody," he said. "I'm not mad at anybody. They got him. It doesn't matter."

Nesmith's mother, Gussie Williams, was not so forgiving.

"They need to keep him [in jail] for life or how long he can stay in there because he doesn't need to be out here in society being like that," she said. "He's got to deal with life out here in society. If he can't deal with that, he needs to be elsewhere."...
I admire Mr. Nesmith's outlook but am afraid I side more with his mother.

Let Mr. Greer try and cross the street and give Gussie the keys to the car IMHO.
__________________
2003 Iceman Challenge - 2:34:55 - 897 / 2,000*
2002 Iceman Challenge - 2:39:23 - 1093 / 2,186
2000 Iceman Challenge - 2:49:18 - 1516 / 2,153
*estimated
threadend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-02, 08:35 AM   #10
bac
Senior Member
 
bac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Bikes: Too many to list!
Posts: 7,481
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Falchoon
"They need to keep him [in jail] for life or how long he can stay in there because he doesn't need to be out here in society being like that," she said. "He's got to deal with life out here in society. If he can't deal with that, he needs to be elsewhere."
His mom is right. Unfortunately though, we all know that life behind bars is not going to happen to this jerk. The sad part is that this guy is going to get some time in prison, and then he'll be released.

So, does anyone think that time in prison is going to rehabilitate this person? Will this racist be a better person after a few years in prison? Will society be a better place when he is returned to us? Sadly, we all know the answer to those questions.

In terms of this being a hate crime – it is. This low-life has an issue with an entire group of people. That makes him MUCH more dangerous to society than some other criminals.

We don’t need scum like this in our society. We should smash him into the sidewalk, and then wash away the stain.
bac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-02, 08:44 AM   #11
cyclochica
Don't Taunt Happyfunball
 
cyclochica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Bikes: 2005 Kona Jake the Snake, Fuji Club SE
Posts: 589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This incident is extremely unfortunate and I can only hope that when I am out there riding someone doesn't get an idea to try to run me down because I am black. Sometimes I wonder if there will ever be a day when I get to let me guard down some.
__________________
There can be only one.
cyclochica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 06:57 AM   #12
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by bac


His mom is right. Unfortunately though, we all know that life behind bars is not going to happen to this jerk. The sad part is that this guy is going to get some time in prison, and then he'll be released.


In terms of this being a hate crime – it is. This low-life has an issue with an entire group of people. That makes him MUCH more dangerous to society than some other criminals.

We don’t need scum like this in our society. We should smash him into the sidewalk, and then wash away the stain.
I agree with all this, but still don't understand the "hate crime" part. Is there a love crime? The hate crime part PC to me and I hate PC. Just hang the sob and be done with it.
Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 07:12 AM   #13
ChipRGW
hehe...He said "member"
 
ChipRGW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FLA
Bikes:
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Hate Crime" isn't a PC term. It is simply a special designation and added severity given to people who attack others simply because of the color of thier skin, ethnic background, religion or whatever. This is society stating that we will not tolerate this behavior. It's bad enough to hurt someone for any reason but to specifically target someone like this makes it a little worse.
ChipRGW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 07:28 AM   #14
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Plus it has the potential to be much more explosive than a similar disspasionate crime by potentially igniting racial tensions ,retaliations and even potentially riots etc. I would think.
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 07:33 AM   #15
nathank
cycle-powered
 
nathank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Munich Germany (formerly Portland OR, Texas)
Bikes: '02 Specialized FSR, '03 RM Slayer, '99 Raleigh R700, '97 Norco hartail, '89 Stumpjumper
Posts: 1,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
originally posted by Duffy
The idea of a "hate crime" nauseates me. It is no more worse a crime if the victim were white,black,yellow,pink or blue. The fact remains that a crime against another person occurred and the criminal should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Quote:
originally posted by TLN
I have to TOTALLY agree with Duffy. I dont want to take anything away from the victim here but what do you think the charges would be if the guy (who was hit) was white. It surely wouldnt be a hate crime. I am so sick of this PC bullsh!t. Call it like it is, a crime is a crime is a crime no matter what color you are.

I dont know what is more stupid, calling a violent crime a "hate crime" depending on what races are involved or the PC people who are trying so hard to get rid of racism yet are keeping it alive and well with stupid ideas such as this.
while i agree that the offender should be punished even if it were not a hate crime or not racially motivated, i disagree that a hate crime is just a "PC" thing and/or doesn't make a difference.

when someone undertakes illegal action against another person for abstract reasons such as racial prejudice, the severity of the crime is greatly increased - the perpetrator no longer views the victim as a person or someone deserving of fair treatment. this flawed attitude must be punished and dealt with ín addition to the actual crime.
nathank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 06:27 PM   #16
Duffy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A crime is a crime is a crime. Regardless of the color of skin or sexual persuasion of the victim,the fact is a crime was committed upon an innocent victim. It is political correctness run amuck! So,what do you do? Pull out his fingernails before you execute the criminal? It might make some people(liberals) feel good that a special label was applied to the crime,but that is all it does!

Last edited by Duffy; 11-14-02 at 06:32 PM.
Duffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 08:09 PM   #17
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As I said before it appears to be more about preventing escalations of violence particularly in low income urban areas than to score political points by assigning labels.However if what you all want to do is get in a political debate don't let me stop you.
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 08:36 PM   #18
Walter
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
 
Walter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE Florida, USA aka the Treasure Coast
Bikes:
Posts: 5,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My first teaching job was at the local high school (Ely, for you locals) and I agree that it's a different area. Very "rough" and in some areas almost Third World poor. I've driven kids home after football practice and their houses in some cases were nearly roofless and otherwise collapsing. I can see why the Broward Sheriff's office is responding vigorously, this kind of incident can trigger much worse.

The fool needs to sit in jail for a long period of time. He tried to commit murder and needs to pay the price. I too am uncomfortable, at the least, with the whole concept of "hate crimes" but if the driver gets a few extra years then I guess the idea has some use.
__________________
“Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Walter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 09:47 PM   #19
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd like to know why attacking someone with different coloured skin is considered a hate crime, but attacking someone on the basis of different mode of transport is not. Is society telling us that it's OK to discriminate as long as you discriminate on an "acceptable" basis? Don't get me wrong here, I'm not suggesting that discriminating on the basis of race is right, I'm just wondering why other forms of discrimination are considered more "acceptable".

Either way, I hope the perpetrator of this crime spends a loooooooooooong time getting personally acquainted with "Bubba".
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 10:37 PM   #20
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pretty much because in a imperfect world those that "riot" the loudest or otherwise make themselves heard get results .I agree that its no different though because I have experienced the unprovoked verbal abuse from these same types and it stuns me when such ignorant hatred comes from out of the blue.
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-02, 10:52 PM   #21
TLN
Senior Member
 
TLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: T-Town
Bikes: '86 Bianchi Super Leggera
Posts: 468
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nathank..."when someone undertakes illegal action against another person for abstract reasons such as racial prejudice, the severity of the crime is greatly increased - the perpetrator no longer views the victim as a person or someone deserving of fair treatment. this flawed attitude must be punished and dealt with ín addition to the actual crime."

Ill have to disagree with you on this. First of all the label "hate crime" is a PC thing. Second, you said "when someone undertakes illegal action against another person for abstract reasons such as racial prejudice, the severity of the crime is greatly increased." This is simply not true in every case. I would even say this is not true in most cases. A person who commits a violent crime like this has no intention of giving his victim fair treatment regardless of skin color, sexual orientation or what have you. People who commit crimes like this need to be dealt with in the same manner... quickly and severly.

If I offend anyone with my unPC thoughts on this all I can say is deal with it, but I really dont care to find out what is going on inside of a persons head when they commit a violent crime (self defense not included) or what their feeling were after the crime. Anyone who cannot figure out good from bad needs to be swiftly and severly punished and not coddled. Punishment is not revenge, its just punishment.

Cheers
TLN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-02, 12:14 AM   #22
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What you fail to deal with is the fact that this is a law one I suspect has broad bilateral support from conservatives and moderates who have a vested interest in reduced civil/racial strife and liberals who espouse political correctness whatever that is(I guess I don't watch enough TV).I suspect only the more radical fringes on either side would totally object rather than simply objecting to the nomenclature or saying it doesn't go far enough.
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-02, 12:40 AM   #23
danr
Senior Member
 
danr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Bikes: Trek 8000 (I'm testing a prototype).
Posts: 590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hate crime or no hate crime. Swerving to hit a bicyclist is just plain idiotic. He should be charged with attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon. If anything, I think being charged with a hate crime should be thrown in there, just to put him away for a few extra years. There's something obviously wrong with this individual. As far as rehabilitation, I don't think there's much that can be done for a person like this. I'm just glad that the person didn't get seriously injured, or killed.

And to top it off, the guy actually went back for the hubcap?

People like this are the reason I carry a knife on rides. However, the knife is made of ti and carbon, so it shaves a few grams
danr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-02, 06:10 AM   #24
joeprim
Senior Member
 
joeprim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Neck Tidewater Va.
Bikes:
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by RWTD
What you fail to deal with is the fact that this is a law one I suspect has broad bilateral support from conservatives and moderates who have a vested interest in reduced civil/racial strife and liberals who espouse political correctness whatever that is(I guess I don't watch enough TV).I suspect only the more radical fringes on either side would totally object rather than simply objecting to the nomenclature or saying it doesn't go far enough.
The part that doesn't make sense is - when would trying to run down some one not be a hate crime. So why have a different name for it sometimes?

Chris L worded it right.

Joe
joeprim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-02, 06:42 AM   #25
RWTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I haven't read the law nor am I a lawyer but the point I was trying to make was I don't think this is a good example to use to bash PC liberals because it seems to have as much or more to offer non liberals who are typically the ones demanding law and order and tougher penalties for criminals.I think the racial slandering(combined with the violence) was the dead giveaway that this should be a hate crime as the evidence is then there to establish motive but I would tend to agree most times intentionally trying to run someone down would seem to indicate hatred but who knows what some of these people are thinking .
RWTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 AM.