Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-06, 07:23 PM   #1
georgiaboy
Retro-nerd
Thread Starter
 
georgiaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Morningside - Atlanta
Bikes: 1991 Serotta Colorado II, 1986 Vitus 979, 1971 Juene Classic, 2008 Surly Crosscheck, 1949 Riva Sport
Posts: 1,583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To quick release or not to quick release?

Exhibit A. 700cc wheel built with quick release skewers

Exhibit B. 700cc wheel built with a bolt on hub

Which is better to have on a commuter bicycle? Is there a preference? Is the performance of a bolt-on hub better? Is the only advantage to skewers is the ability to remove the wheel quicker?
__________________
Would you like a dream with that?
georgiaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-06, 08:38 PM   #2
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes:
Posts: 8,537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Bolton, harder to steal. Not by much, but might prevent someone just walking by and removing the wheel.
Ofcourse if locked properly it shouldn't be a problem.
UmneyDurak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-06, 09:46 PM   #3
AnthonyG
Senior Member
 
AnthonyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Queanbeyan, Australia.
Bikes:
Posts: 3,676
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
People are less likely to steal a bolt on wheel just for the fun of it but you can always run a chain or u-lock through them anyway. One thing I've found with bolt on wheels on my beater is that its harder to get the wheels aligned in the frame because as you bolt on the wheel the rotational force moves the wheel around and it will come out of alignment. This may have something to do with dodgy dropouts on the cheap bike though. One minor advantage of solid axles however is that they don't compress under load like hollow axles for quick releases do so your bearing adjustments don't have to be compensated for.

Regards, Anthony
AnthonyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-06, 11:21 PM   #4
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 10,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Quick release is handy if you need to take the wheel off to fit the bike in a car, or if you want to reduce the theft appeal of your bike by removing the wheel and taking it with you. I also see some bikes locked with the QR front wheel placed beside the frame so one lock can go through both wheels and the frame. However I use a cable for the front wheel, so I don't do that. I think a bolt is better if you don't plan to remove the wheel very often, but you still need a cable so you can lock both wheels. It's not that hard to remove a bolted on wheel
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-06, 11:48 PM   #5
minastirith
Junior Member
 
minastirith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Waterloo/Toronto, ON, Canada
Bikes: Trek 4500
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is the bolt on hub wheel come with a hex nut (old-school style)? If it does, buy a wheel with quick release skewers and add on a bolt on skewers (released with an allen wrench) that nashbar sells for normal commuting purposes. That way you only have to carry small allen key instead of bulky hex wrench, when you commute if your tire happens to puncture and you need to repair it. Also, not many people will be able to steal your wheels. (unless they happened to carry allen keys with them). Also, as AnthonyG said above, wheels with skewers are a lot easier to align the wheels than bolts.

Bolt on quick release skewers at nashbar
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=
minastirith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-06, 11:48 PM   #6
Thor29
Senior Member
 
Thor29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The main problem with bolt on hubs is that there aren't that many of them. I have bolt on Surly hubs on my fixed gear bike which doubles as my main commuter bike, but I still run a cable through the wheels anyway. Surly makes a nice little wrench called the Jethro Tool that is small enough to throw in your pack so getting the wheels on and off is no big deal. But anyway, like I said, there are very few bolt on hubs available out there so it really limits your choices unless you are riding a fixed gear bike. (There are bolt on skewers that replace the QRs, but the only ones I have seen lately are really cheapo).
Thor29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 12:17 AM   #7
Ziemas
Senior Member
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Locking skewers.

www.pitlock.de/en
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 04:18 AM   #8
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Bikes:
Posts: 12,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In high crime areas where people will probably mess with your bike I prefer bolts. I use track nuts with a built-in washer and carry a ring wrench to tighten the bolt properly.
In lower crime areas I use QRs to save on tools and speed up repairs.
QRs are better at handling cracked axles, they hold the assembly together until you get home, but with freehubs, axle failure is almost unknown.
I find that wheel alignment is the same for either method.
Locking skewers are probably the best solution.
How tight can you get an axle bolt using an allen key?
MichaelW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 10:14 AM   #9
Saintly Loser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Bikes: Nothing special, but it works.
Posts: 541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
More locking skewers:

http://www.pinheadcomponents.com/

I use these. Two skewers and a seatpost binder bolt are packaged together. They also make a lock for threadless headsets.
Saintly Loser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 10:32 AM   #10
MarkS
Avatar out of order.
 
MarkS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of the border, just
Bikes: Fuji Absolut '04 / Fuji 'Marlboro' Folder
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't understand the "bolts deter theft" idea. A thief is going to carry a dremel, hack saw, auto jack, and cable cutter, but not have a wrench handy?

Everybody gets flats sooner later. It was messing with a bolt on a tire in the dark of night that convinced me that I wanted a bike with quick release wheels.
__________________
Cars kill 45,000 Americans every year.
This is like losing a war every year, except without the parades.
MarkS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 10:44 AM   #11
slooney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Bikes: Trek 930 mutt (beater) Gary Fisher '98 Paragon
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
I don't understand the "bolts deter theft" idea. A thief is going to carry a dremel, hack saw, auto jack, and cable cutter, but not have a wrench handy?

Everybody gets flats sooner later. It was messing with a bolt on a tire in the dark of night that convinced me that I wanted a bike with quick release wheels.
Two types of theives- those who are interested in the wheel, and those who are just messing around with cyclists to be a PITA (pain in the a..).

That said, I have QR on all my bikes, save one.
slooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 11:34 AM   #12
ken cummings
Senior Member
 
ken cummings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: northern California
Bikes: Bruce Gordon BLT, Cannondale parts bike, Ecodyne recumbent trike, Counterpoint Opus 2, miyata 1000
Posts: 5,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
I don't understand the "bolts deter theft" idea. A thief is going to carry a dremel, hack saw, auto jack, and cable cutter, but not have a wrench handy?

Everybody gets flats sooner later. It was messing with a bolt on a tire in the dark of night that convinced me that I wanted a bike with quick release wheels.
Thieves want to get in and out quickly. Make it harder for them and they will tend to go for another bike. And security bolts can require wierd special tools to remove them. There are ways to beat or really slow all of the tools you mention. You missed liquid Nitrogen, a favorite at MIT. Chill the steel, tap with a hammer, and it shatters. Bike gone. Also cutting torches. Use a wet towel to protect the bike. I used that one when the wife forgot her combo.
ken cummings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 11:42 AM   #13
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
It was messing with a bolt on a tire in the dark of night that convinced me that I wanted a bike with quick release wheels.
How hard is "messing with a bolt" under any conceivable road side repair scenario? Unless carrying any tools is too great a burden.

Carrying in addition to a spare tube, a 6" adjustable wrench, a few zip ties and a screw driver will handle 99% of roadside repairs. It really isn't that hard.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 01:05 PM   #14
MarkS
Avatar out of order.
 
MarkS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of the border, just
Bikes: Fuji Absolut '04 / Fuji 'Marlboro' Folder
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
How hard is "messing with a bolt" under any conceivable road side repair scenario? Unless carrying any tools is too great a burden.



Carrying in addition to a spare tube, a 6" adjustable wrench, a few zip ties and a screw driver will handle 99% of roadside repairs. It really isn't that hard.
Oh, I carry loads of tools. Way more than anyone else as far as I can tell. This was a back nut that had never been broken. But even once the initial nut is broken, I need something like a socket to get the torque to take it off and put it back on securely. If you you've got the ham-fists to do it with a 6" wrench, more power to you. Also, like someone else mentioned, it was harder to get the wheel on straight. Once again, if I can carry a 6" wrench, so can a thief. Or, he can steal it from someone's tool bag. Which brings up another weakness -- leaving a bag of tools out at the bike.

If you're concerned about real thieves, then you're going to have to get locking skewers, carry a cable or move the front tire to the back with the u-bolt. If you're concerned about mischief makers, you can carry a lightweight gun-lock to lock the front tire to the frame.
__________________
Cars kill 45,000 Americans every year.
This is like losing a war every year, except without the parades.
MarkS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 02:10 PM   #15
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
But even once the initial nut is broken, I need something like a socket to get the torque to take it off and put it back on securely. If you you've got the ham-fists to do it with a 6" wrench, more power to you.
Good Gosh! How much torque do you apply to a wheel bolt? My method is snug it up, and then a little tad more has worked for over 50 years; could put adequate torque on when I was 8 (and I'm a weakling)and never have had a problem with not enough; only too much torque on the easily stripped nuts that fit on Sturmey Archer 3 speed axles.

I have no issue about which is better theft deterrent, just that making roadside repairs "easier" harldy seems to be a significant reason to change to quick release wheels.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 02:56 PM   #16
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Good Gosh! How much torque do you apply to a wheel bolt? My method is snug it up, and then a little tad more has worked for over 50 years; could put adequate torque on when I was 8 (and I'm a weakling)and never have had a problem with not enough; only too much torque on the easily stripped nuts that fit on Sturmey Archer 3 speed axles.

I have no issue about which is better theft deterrent, just that making roadside repairs "easier" harldy seems to be a significant reason to change to quick release wheels.
Really have to agree with ILTB here... after all how much locking force does a QR impart? You have a considerably shorter lever arm on a typical QR than 6 inches you have with a wrench.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 07:38 PM   #17
MarkS
Avatar out of order.
 
MarkS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of the border, just
Bikes: Fuji Absolut '04 / Fuji 'Marlboro' Folder
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So the reason for the popularity of QR is just people's unwillingness to carry 6" wrench's?

The night I got stuck, I finally had to walk over to a nearby Pep Boy's (what luck!) and buy a long arm socket wrench. Then I had to jump up and down on it for about a half hour. The other factor is that my older bike had "vague" drop-outs, making it harder to know if you got the wheel back in right.
__________________
Cars kill 45,000 Americans every year.
This is like losing a war every year, except without the parades.
MarkS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 08:03 PM   #18
willtsmith_nwi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiaboy
Exhibit A. 700cc wheel built with quick release skewers

Exhibit B. 700cc wheel built with a bolt on hub

Which is better to have on a commuter bicycle? Is there a preference? Is the performance of a bolt-on hub better? Is the only advantage to skewers is the ability to remove the wheel quicker?
Kryptonite makes some quick release locking skewers. The levers are the keys. Just don't lose the levers.
willtsmith_nwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 08:10 PM   #19
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
So the reason for the popularity of QR is just people's unwillingness to carry 6" wrench's?
I suspect it's the same reason knobby tires and full suspension gizmos are sold on so many new bikes whose users would be better served without. Marketing to be sporty, and has nothing to do with usefullness, and in many cases is counterproductive to actual use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
The night I got stuck, I finally had to walk over to a nearby Pep Boy's (what luck!) and buy a long arm socket wrench. Then I had to jump up and down on it for about a half hour. The other factor is that my older bike had "vague" drop-outs, making it harder to know if you got the wheel back in right.
How long was that bolt allowed to rust-weld itself to the axle? Was it soaked in salt water for a few months? Did you or anybody else do any maintenance on the bike for the previous couple decades? I cannot figure out how a bolt could be that frozen on a bicycle axle.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 03-13-06 at 08:20 PM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 08:18 PM   #20
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
How long was that bolt allowed to rust-weld itself to the axle? Was it soaked in salt water for a few months? Did you or anybody else do any maintenance on the bike for the previous couple decades? I cannot figure out how a bolt could be that frozen on a bicycle axle.

How about some ape with a long breaker bar being determined to make sure it doesn't come loose. Too often folks with little mechanical experience tend to overtighten things.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of effort to snug up a bolt well enough to do the trick. And a 6 inch crescent wrench, will do just fine.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 08:22 PM   #21
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec
How about some ape with a long breaker bar being determined to make sure it doesn't come loose. Too often folks with little mechanical experience tend to overtighten things.
Usually that would strip the threads of the nut as the axle is usually much harder steel.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 09:44 PM   #22
Nachoman
Senior Member
 
Nachoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
Posts: 14,011
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
I hate the fact that two of my bikes have seats with quick releases. Talk about tempting some nimrod to yank my seat.
__________________
.
.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Nachoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 11:30 PM   #23
bkaapcke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I like skewers because I can quickly tighten them without tools. bk
bkaapcke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-06, 11:41 PM   #24
MarkS
Avatar out of order.
 
MarkS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of the border, just
Bikes: Fuji Absolut '04 / Fuji 'Marlboro' Folder
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I suspect it's the same reason knobby tires and full suspension gizmos are sold on so many new bikes whose users would be better served without. Marketing to be sporty, and has nothing to do with usefullness, and in many cases is counterproductive to actual use.
So what's the down-side of QR? Other than the security thing, which isn't an issue if the thief has a 6" wrench? Or if you lock up your wheels.

Quote:
How long was that bolt allowed to rust-weld itself to the axle? Was it soaked in salt water for a few months? Did you or anybody else do any maintenance on the bike for the previous couple decades? I cannot figure out how a bolt could be that frozen on a bicycle axle.
Never soaked in salt water. Should it have been? Amazingly, had gone 7 years or less since purchased without needing back flat fixed -- so tensioning was done at the factory. My assumption was that they had used something like lock-tite.
__________________
Cars kill 45,000 Americans every year.
This is like losing a war every year, except without the parades.
MarkS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 12:59 AM   #25
Thor29
Senior Member
 
Thor29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachoman
I hate the fact that two of my bikes have seats with quick releases. Talk about tempting some nimrod to yank my seat.
Why would you have a quick release seatpost clamp on a commuter? Now THAT really is stupid. Just replace the damned things with a bolt on clamp. The rational behind QR seatpost clamps is so that you can drop the seat on your mountain bike when you descend steep gnarly hills. In reality it is too much trouble to stop and lower your seat and then stop again at the bottom of the hill to try and get the seat back to the proper height and pointed straight ahead. So my mountain bike doesn't have a QR seatpost clamp on it and it is ONLY used for hard core off road riding.

QR seatpost clamps are for nimrods.
Thor29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:16 AM.