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  1. #1
    ELVEEPEE elveepee's Avatar
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    Inappropriate SEX AD in Bicycling Magazine

    Here is correspondence sent to Bicycling Magazine . I think the ad is inappropriate for a cycling magazine.
    I am a new subscriber. I am 66 years old and a parent of 6 and
    grandparent of 33. I have 4 great grandchildren. I am not a prude,
    however there is a ad in your marketplace section by LIBERATOR to which
    I object. I share my magazines with my grandchildren and hope that they
    will be intrested in cycling. However, that ad has nothing to do with
    cycling and is extremely suggestive, also possibly suggesting that it is
    ordinary fare for cyclists. If you desire to keep publishing that ad or
    others like it, please refund my unused subscription amount and cancel
    my subscription. Otherwise, I enjoy your magazine and would enjoy
    continuing to recieve it. The choice is yours.
    Thank you very much for your consideration.
    Lloyd Payne

    Their response:
    Thank you for contacting Bicycling Magazine.
    Although you asked us to stop your subscription, our records indicate
    that your account is paid for future copies. Since most of our
    customers wish to receive any prepaid copies, we will continue service
    until your subscription expires. Should you prefer a refund, simply
    return this email instructing us.
    Thank you
    Bicycling Magazine
    ji


    My last response to them:
    Bicycling Magazine,
    ji
    As I satated in my original message, I do not wish to recieve any more of
    your magazines that contain advertisements for LIBERATOR. I asked you to
    indicate if you are going to continue those advertisements and instructed
    you to refund my subscription price if you are going to continue to carry
    them. They have NO PLACE in a cycling magazine. Please do as I instructed
    you. The choice is now up to you and I will do what I need to do next
    depending on your response.

    Very Sincerely
    Lloyd V. Payne
    My other bike is a mule

  2. #2
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    It's nice they gave you an option of getting a refund for the issues you haven't received yet. As for whether or not it "belongs", I guess I'll just say it wouldn't be there if it wasn't working for them - they must be getting a positive response from many of Bicycling's readers.

    Besides I don't remember that ad saying anything like "hey this is a chair used to have lots of sex!" If your grankids are old enough to understand what it is, then they've already seen stuff that's a lot worse.

    But kudos for standing up for what you believe. Sucks not having another decent mag to take it's place doesn't it?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    I don't particularly agree with you either, because I don't really find the liberator offensive. But I also respect you for taking a stand on this issue.
    .
    .

    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

  4. #4
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    How bad can this advertisement be? Anyway chances are magazine made a long term contract with them, and won't do anything unless there is A LOT of backlash.
    Last edited by UmneyDurak; 03-13-06 at 11:47 PM.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Thor29's Avatar
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    I think by definition, you ARE a prude. And that's okay if that's what you want to be. Although I haven't seen this ad, I kind of doubt it is enough to warp a little kid's mind. Could someone describe the ad to those of us who don't bother to read that crummy magazine because of the content rather than because the ads are offensive?

  6. #6
    Barbieri Telefonico huhenio's Avatar
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    This Thread Is Worthless Without Pics
    Giving Haircuts Over The Phone

  7. #7
    ELVEEPEE elveepee's Avatar
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    I guess I'll give a little more background on my concern. I am a former Chief Juvenile Probation Officer for a 3 county area. I am a former sheriff and undersheriff. I spent over 20 years teaching in public schools. I am now very involved with youth in my religious affiliation. I have seen heartache and people's lives ruined because they have been led into practices that have started by small means, perhaps by curiosity of something like these ads. I have over 50 hours of advanced degree work in psychology and counseling.
    It may seem insignificant to most and I know that youth do get exposed to more today than ever. That is still no excuse to just shrug your shoulders and let it be. I still think it is inappropriate and that if enough people would show concern about these things that maybe, just maybe, it may make a difference to someone somewhere.

    Thank you for your time reading this and I hope you will give it due consideration. Incidently, you might be interested in my family which I love dearly. Here are sites about them.
    Current site:
    Old site

    Lloyd
    My other bike is a mule

  8. #8
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    I totally understand what you're saying. Not supporting it financially is your right as an American. I think it was the right thing for you to do. If enough people agree with you then our market economy will kick in and a change will be forthcoming.

    Something tells me it's here to stay though.

  9. #9
    Senior Member chicbicyclist's Avatar
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    I have seen heartache and people's lives ruined because they have been led into practices that have started by small means, perhaps by curiosity of something like these ads.
    Thats kind of...a stretch. Seriously, how many families actually subscribe to this magazine anyway? Bicycling as it is is a very minority sector of society. And you mentioned "religious affiliation", that by itself is not necesarilly a bad thing, but you know...

    Besides, most cyclist are disproportionately men, so I can't really fault them for using sexual appeal in the ads that they allow. It's not like Bicycling Magazine is masquerading as a family or children's magazine. It's for the bicycling community, who are comprimised almost entirely of adult men.

    But I have to say, I havent seen the ad. A picture would help.

  10. #10
    ELVEEPEE elveepee's Avatar
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    I don't have the means to copy the pictures here. They advertise the site www.liberator.com if you must satisfy your curiosity. Their ads are of the same ilk.
    My other bike is a mule

  11. #11
    Senior Member chicbicyclist's Avatar
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    It's not that sleazy. It was more tasteful than what I would have expected, actually.

    Again, the ad=knowing your market. I still stand by my position that Bicycling Magazine is not masquerading as a Kids or Family Magazine. The magazine is clearly not geared towards children. Now if this was Popular Mechanics for Kids Digest or National Geographic....

  12. #12
    Senior Member oilfreeandhappy's Avatar
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    I agree. It's pretty sleazy for a bicycle magazine.
    Jim
    Make a BOLD Statement While Cycling!

  13. #13
    ELVEEPEE elveepee's Avatar
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    You would be suprised at how many school libraries carry cycling magazines. I can't give any definitive numbers, but do know that many do. Cycling is a popular activity. I guess the responses I have recieved to my post gives an idea of what the public attitudes are towards such matters. I, being from an older generation, find it difficult to reconcile newer moral atitudes with what I was brought up believing. Time will tell the ultimate tale. Will family values make a difference in our society or not? Over 50% of my students went home to a broken home, most being lock-key children. I believe the social abberations occuring in our schools and society are a symptom of a societal breakdown of basic values that children are not being taught and values they are learning from new sources never before available to them as I described referencing the ad.
    Thanks to all of you for your responses and time on this subject. I feel somewhat relieved being able to vent my concerns.
    Lloyd
    My other bike is a mule

  14. #14
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Here's a logic issue I have here. First, compare the rates of the issues you've outlined as problem in the work that you've done. Compare the rates of those incidents to their counterparts in Europe or Canada and see what the difference is. Then compare the types of sexual content in our media and advertising with theirs. You'll see some very, very interesting details emerge.

    My main point here is that there's a big difference between cause-and-effect vs. correlation. Sex in advertising is actualy the effect not a cause of anything. It's the result of "sex sells" and is caused by our primal human natures. You will never be able to remove the animal from within us. Better to recognize it and learn how to reconcile it with our modern society.

    Look at the rates of alcoholism and drunk-driving fatalities. Compare that to the European or Canadian rates. What do you see? Our HIGHER drink-age limit doesn't seem to have ANY effect on alcoholism compared to the European's 14-16 yr age limits huh? Why? Because education and experience wins out over sheltering and ignorance any day. When I turned 12, my dad said, "Son, you're old enough now and I'm going to share with you one of my greatest pleasures." and he gave me a shot of his favorite Scotch. I promptly gagged and spat it out. "You might not like that drink, but there's plenty of others in this cabinet you can try. Just let me know when you want some and I will have it with you.". Needless to say, I never had much of a desire to try many of them, preferring my Coke or root-beers over liquor. However, I did develop a fondness for vodka and tequila later. But, all through high-school, I never ever had a motivation or desire to drink excessively like my friends. They did it from rebellion since it was "forbidden" on so many levels. And overdoing it gave them a sense of empowerment in their emotionally tumultuous teenage years. The leading cause of death with teenagers is driving accidents and alcohol-abuse is a major contributing factor. I'd like to see our system be more like the Europeans focusing on education rather than sheltering ignorance.

    Same with sex-related issues. The more taboo and forbidden you make something, the more the kids will want to check it out. This is human nature, you cannot prevent it. You can, however, educate and teach your kids about the issues pertaining to sex. Rather than making them out to be wrong or bad for feeling the way they are, which causes all sorts of shame and identity problems, let them know it's perfectly natural. Tell them they're fine and the stuff they're feeling is natural, tell them the implications, show them the ways of managing the risks and consequences. Ultimately, if I cannot trust my kids to make the proper decisions on their own without me watching their every move like a hawk, I have failed as a parent.

    That's the problem that's really the CAUSE of the issues you've raised. It's nothing to do with advertising, it's to do with parenting. A lot of parents nowadays do not want to be parents or take on the responsibility of being parents. The're shuffling that job off to the schools and churches. That's not the roles of those institutions; to raise your kids. Someone needs to be around when the kids get home from school, someone needs to set rules and enforce them. Someone needs to be the disciplinarian and role-model in kids' lives. Until parents face up to their duty, pointing the finger elsewhere as being at fault will not solve any problems.

    No matter how many aspirins or pain-killers I take to relieve pain, it's not gonna do much good if I've chopped off my finger by getting it caught in the chainring.... Cure the problem, not try to cover up the symptoms...

  15. #15
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    I don't see it as offensive, but it is out of place.

    I also dislike the motor vehicle ads in there...no more honda element ads...that car looks like it was part of an ugly-stick gang beating....
    -------- __@
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  16. #16
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    I swear some people become dumbasses once they start reading the Bible .Thankfully it is only a very small number.
    cheers
    graham

  17. #17
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    The sex and car ads must be stopped, post haste! Certainly cyclists would never be of the sort to want to have sex or drive somewhere. Stop the presses!
    i ride bikes.

  18. #18
    Drive the Bicycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elveepee
    I guess the responses I have recieved to my post gives an idea of what the public attitudes are towards such matters. I, being from an older generation, find it difficult to reconcile newer moral atitudes with what I was brought up believing.
    --- The problem with the Liberator Bedroom Adventure Gear advertisements is that they are incomplete. They don't show that those bedroom adventures create bawling infants with poopy diapers. Ha ha ha
    "The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Well said, Danno!

  20. #20
    Behind EVERYone!!! baj32161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fore
    The sex and car ads must be stopped, post haste! Certainly cyclists would never be of the sort to want to have sex or drive somewhere. Stop the presses!

    Posts like the OP always seem to get my goat. If you (the OP) are willing to write angry letters and cancel your subscription because of this ad, which I have seen, then that certainly is your right. However, it is also your responsibility to educate your grandchildren. If you choose to share this magazine with them and you object to this ad, just tear the page with the offending page out.


    Brian
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    ― Bruce Lee

  21. #21
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham58
    I swear some people become dumbasses once they start reading the Bible .Thankfully it is only a very small number.
    cheers
    graham
    Actually it's a very large number and proportion of the US population compared with most other developed countries. Scary!

  22. #22
    Behind EVERYone!!! baj32161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catatonic
    I don't see it as offensive, but it is out of place.

    I also dislike the motor vehicle ads in there...no more honda element ads...that car looks like it was part of an ugly-stick gang beating....
    Oh my...Heaven forbid we ever need to actually take out bikes anywhere. A car may come in handy from time to time.
    A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.

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  23. #23
    Behind EVERYone!!! baj32161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elveepee
    Here is correspondence sent to Bicycling Magazine . I think the ad is inappropriate for a cycling magazine.
    I am a new subscriber. I am 66 years old and a parent of 6 and
    grandparent of 33. I have 4 great grandchildren. I am not a prude,
    however there is a ad in your marketplace section by LIBERATOR to which
    I object. I share my magazines with my grandchildren and hope that they
    will be intrested in cycling. However, that ad has nothing to do with
    cycling and is extremely suggestive, also possibly suggesting that it is
    ordinary fare for cyclists. If you desire to keep publishing that ad or
    others like it, please refund my unused subscription amount and cancel
    my subscription. Otherwise, I enjoy your magazine and would enjoy
    continuing to recieve it. The choice is yours.
    Thank you very much for your consideration.
    Lloyd Payne

    Their response:
    Thank you for contacting Bicycling Magazine.
    Although you asked us to stop your subscription, our records indicate
    that your account is paid for future copies. Since most of our
    customers wish to receive any prepaid copies, we will continue service
    until your subscription expires. Should you prefer a refund, simply
    return this email instructing us.
    Thank you
    Bicycling Magazine
    ji


    My last response to them:
    Bicycling Magazine,
    ji
    As I satated in my original message, I do not wish to recieve any more of
    your magazines that contain advertisements for LIBERATOR. I asked you to
    indicate if you are going to continue those advertisements and instructed
    you to refund my subscription price if you are going to continue to carry
    them. They have NO PLACE in a cycling magazine. Please do as I instructed
    you. The choice is now up to you and I will do what I need to do next
    depending on your response.

    Very Sincerely
    Lloyd V. Payne
    So I guess I can't send you my Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue ?
    A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.

    ― Bruce Lee

  24. #24
    Member
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    I am more offended by the automobile ads, then the sex ads. In fact one of the reasons I dont get Bicycling magazine is because there isnt enough real content to be worth it. There is more advertising then useful information. I dont feel its the job of a magazine however to filter their ads for sensitive viewers. Thats really the choice and job of the viewer of the magazine. There is sexual geared elements everywhere in media today from sitcoms, to reality tv shows, to TV commercials to magazine commercials. I really think it is our jobs to filter out what we dont want ur children to see etc. Of course it is the subscribers right to protest, so more power to you. But still the ad is still advertising mature consentual adult sex products , it isnt porn and it isnt what you would really call disrespectful.

  25. #25
    370H-SSV-0773H linux_author's Avatar
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    - there are a few ads that i don't like in Bicycling - however, my objections concern the fact that the ads are inappropriate to publication's focus (rather than personally offensive)...

    - my real problem with Bicycling is its vacuous content and obvious sell-out to manufacturers, such as doing "reviews" based on PR releases and source advertising content, rather than using expertise (none obviously on the editorial staff) and objectivity without regard for print revenue...

    - but then again, saying that there's professionalism in today's journalism field is like saying there's virtue among 'street walkers' - witness the fabrications, political bias, and plagiarism at the Times, CBS, Washington Post, etc.

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