Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-14-06, 12:15 AM   #1
elveepee
ELVEEPEE
Thread Starter
 
elveepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lordsburg, NM
Bikes: Trek Mountain Track 850, Bridgestone XO-3
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Inappropriate SEX AD in Bicycling Magazine

Here is correspondence sent to Bicycling Magazine . I think the ad is inappropriate for a cycling magazine.
I am a new subscriber. I am 66 years old and a parent of 6 and
grandparent of 33. I have 4 great grandchildren. I am not a prude,
however there is a ad in your marketplace section by LIBERATOR to which
I object. I share my magazines with my grandchildren and hope that they
will be intrested in cycling. However, that ad has nothing to do with
cycling and is extremely suggestive, also possibly suggesting that it is
ordinary fare for cyclists. If you desire to keep publishing that ad or
others like it, please refund my unused subscription amount and cancel
my subscription. Otherwise, I enjoy your magazine and would enjoy
continuing to recieve it. The choice is yours.
Thank you very much for your consideration.
Lloyd Payne

Their response:
Thank you for contacting Bicycling Magazine.
Although you asked us to stop your subscription, our records indicate
that your account is paid for future copies. Since most of our
customers wish to receive any prepaid copies, we will continue service
until your subscription expires. Should you prefer a refund, simply
return this email instructing us.
Thank you
Bicycling Magazine
ji


My last response to them:
Bicycling Magazine,
ji
As I satated in my original message, I do not wish to recieve any more of
your magazines that contain advertisements for LIBERATOR. I asked you to
indicate if you are going to continue those advertisements and instructed
you to refund my subscription price if you are going to continue to carry
them. They have NO PLACE in a cycling magazine. Please do as I instructed
you. The choice is now up to you and I will do what I need to do next
depending on your response.

Very Sincerely
Lloyd V. Payne
elveepee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 12:29 AM   #2
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Posts: 19,703
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's nice they gave you an option of getting a refund for the issues you haven't received yet. As for whether or not it "belongs", I guess I'll just say it wouldn't be there if it wasn't working for them - they must be getting a positive response from many of Bicycling's readers.

Besides I don't remember that ad saying anything like "hey this is a chair used to have lots of sex!" If your grankids are old enough to understand what it is, then they've already seen stuff that's a lot worse.

But kudos for standing up for what you believe. Sucks not having another decent mag to take it's place doesn't it?
Psimet2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 12:38 AM   #3
Nachoman
Senior Member
 
Nachoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
Posts: 14,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
I don't particularly agree with you either, because I don't really find the liberator offensive. But I also respect you for taking a stand on this issue.
__________________
.
.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Nachoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 12:42 AM   #4
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Bikes:
Posts: 8,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
How bad can this advertisement be? Anyway chances are magazine made a long term contract with them, and won't do anything unless there is A LOT of backlash.

Last edited by UmneyDurak; 03-14-06 at 12:47 AM.
UmneyDurak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 12:50 AM   #5
Thor29
Senior Member
 
Thor29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think by definition, you ARE a prude. And that's okay if that's what you want to be. Although I haven't seen this ad, I kind of doubt it is enough to warp a little kid's mind. Could someone describe the ad to those of us who don't bother to read that crummy magazine because of the content rather than because the ads are offensive?
Thor29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 12:57 AM   #6
huhenio
Barbieri Telefonico
 
huhenio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Bikes: Crappy but operational secondhand Motobecane Messenger
Posts: 3,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This Thread Is Worthless Without Pics
__________________
Giving Haircuts Over The Phone
huhenio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 01:07 AM   #7
elveepee
ELVEEPEE
Thread Starter
 
elveepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lordsburg, NM
Bikes: Trek Mountain Track 850, Bridgestone XO-3
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess I'll give a little more background on my concern. I am a former Chief Juvenile Probation Officer for a 3 county area. I am a former sheriff and undersheriff. I spent over 20 years teaching in public schools. I am now very involved with youth in my religious affiliation. I have seen heartache and people's lives ruined because they have been led into practices that have started by small means, perhaps by curiosity of something like these ads. I have over 50 hours of advanced degree work in psychology and counseling.
It may seem insignificant to most and I know that youth do get exposed to more today than ever. That is still no excuse to just shrug your shoulders and let it be. I still think it is inappropriate and that if enough people would show concern about these things that maybe, just maybe, it may make a difference to someone somewhere.

Thank you for your time reading this and I hope you will give it due consideration. Incidently, you might be interested in my family which I love dearly. Here are sites about them.
Current site:
Old site

Lloyd
elveepee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 01:18 AM   #8
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Posts: 19,703
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I totally understand what you're saying. Not supporting it financially is your right as an American. I think it was the right thing for you to do. If enough people agree with you then our market economy will kick in and a change will be forthcoming.

Something tells me it's here to stay though.
Psimet2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 01:21 AM   #9
chicbicyclist
Senior Member
 
chicbicyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes: Batavus Old Dutch
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I have seen heartache and people's lives ruined because they have been led into practices that have started by small means, perhaps by curiosity of something like these ads.
Thats kind of...a stretch. Seriously, how many families actually subscribe to this magazine anyway? Bicycling as it is is a very minority sector of society. And you mentioned "religious affiliation", that by itself is not necesarilly a bad thing, but you know...

Besides, most cyclist are disproportionately men, so I can't really fault them for using sexual appeal in the ads that they allow. It's not like Bicycling Magazine is masquerading as a family or children's magazine. It's for the bicycling community, who are comprimised almost entirely of adult men.

But I have to say, I havent seen the ad. A picture would help.
chicbicyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 01:33 AM   #10
elveepee
ELVEEPEE
Thread Starter
 
elveepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lordsburg, NM
Bikes: Trek Mountain Track 850, Bridgestone XO-3
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't have the means to copy the pictures here. They advertise the site www.liberator.com if you must satisfy your curiosity. Their ads are of the same ilk.
elveepee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 01:49 AM   #11
chicbicyclist
Senior Member
 
chicbicyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes: Batavus Old Dutch
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's not that sleazy. It was more tasteful than what I would have expected, actually.

Again, the ad=knowing your market. I still stand by my position that Bicycling Magazine is not masquerading as a Kids or Family Magazine. The magazine is clearly not geared towards children. Now if this was Popular Mechanics for Kids Digest or National Geographic....
chicbicyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 02:09 AM   #12
oilfreeandhappy
Senior Member
 
oilfreeandhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: Shasta Kiliminjaro, Optima Dragon Recumbent
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree. It's pretty sleazy for a bicycle magazine.
__________________
Jim
Make a BOLD Statement While Cycling!
oilfreeandhappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 02:15 AM   #13
elveepee
ELVEEPEE
Thread Starter
 
elveepee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lordsburg, NM
Bikes: Trek Mountain Track 850, Bridgestone XO-3
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You would be suprised at how many school libraries carry cycling magazines. I can't give any definitive numbers, but do know that many do. Cycling is a popular activity. I guess the responses I have recieved to my post gives an idea of what the public attitudes are towards such matters. I, being from an older generation, find it difficult to reconcile newer moral atitudes with what I was brought up believing. Time will tell the ultimate tale. Will family values make a difference in our society or not? Over 50% of my students went home to a broken home, most being lock-key children. I believe the social abberations occuring in our schools and society are a symptom of a societal breakdown of basic values that children are not being taught and values they are learning from new sources never before available to them as I described referencing the ad.
Thanks to all of you for your responses and time on this subject. I feel somewhat relieved being able to vent my concerns.
Lloyd
elveepee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 04:43 AM   #14
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 11,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's a logic issue I have here. First, compare the rates of the issues you've outlined as problem in the work that you've done. Compare the rates of those incidents to their counterparts in Europe or Canada and see what the difference is. Then compare the types of sexual content in our media and advertising with theirs. You'll see some very, very interesting details emerge.

My main point here is that there's a big difference between cause-and-effect vs. correlation. Sex in advertising is actualy the effect not a cause of anything. It's the result of "sex sells" and is caused by our primal human natures. You will never be able to remove the animal from within us. Better to recognize it and learn how to reconcile it with our modern society.

Look at the rates of alcoholism and drunk-driving fatalities. Compare that to the European or Canadian rates. What do you see? Our HIGHER drink-age limit doesn't seem to have ANY effect on alcoholism compared to the European's 14-16 yr age limits huh? Why? Because education and experience wins out over sheltering and ignorance any day. When I turned 12, my dad said, "Son, you're old enough now and I'm going to share with you one of my greatest pleasures." and he gave me a shot of his favorite Scotch. I promptly gagged and spat it out. "You might not like that drink, but there's plenty of others in this cabinet you can try. Just let me know when you want some and I will have it with you.". Needless to say, I never had much of a desire to try many of them, preferring my Coke or root-beers over liquor. However, I did develop a fondness for vodka and tequila later. But, all through high-school, I never ever had a motivation or desire to drink excessively like my friends. They did it from rebellion since it was "forbidden" on so many levels. And overdoing it gave them a sense of empowerment in their emotionally tumultuous teenage years. The leading cause of death with teenagers is driving accidents and alcohol-abuse is a major contributing factor. I'd like to see our system be more like the Europeans focusing on education rather than sheltering ignorance.

Same with sex-related issues. The more taboo and forbidden you make something, the more the kids will want to check it out. This is human nature, you cannot prevent it. You can, however, educate and teach your kids about the issues pertaining to sex. Rather than making them out to be wrong or bad for feeling the way they are, which causes all sorts of shame and identity problems, let them know it's perfectly natural. Tell them they're fine and the stuff they're feeling is natural, tell them the implications, show them the ways of managing the risks and consequences. Ultimately, if I cannot trust my kids to make the proper decisions on their own without me watching their every move like a hawk, I have failed as a parent.

That's the problem that's really the CAUSE of the issues you've raised. It's nothing to do with advertising, it's to do with parenting. A lot of parents nowadays do not want to be parents or take on the responsibility of being parents. The're shuffling that job off to the schools and churches. That's not the roles of those institutions; to raise your kids. Someone needs to be around when the kids get home from school, someone needs to set rules and enforce them. Someone needs to be the disciplinarian and role-model in kids' lives. Until parents face up to their duty, pointing the finger elsewhere as being at fault will not solve any problems.

No matter how many aspirins or pain-killers I take to relieve pain, it's not gonna do much good if I've chopped off my finger by getting it caught in the chainring.... Cure the problem, not try to cover up the symptoms...
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 04:46 AM   #15
catatonic
Chairman of the Bored
 
catatonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Bikes: 2004 Raleigh Talus, 2001 Motobecane Vent Noir (Custom build for heavy riders)
Posts: 5,825
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't see it as offensive, but it is out of place.

I also dislike the motor vehicle ads in there...no more honda element ads...that car looks like it was part of an ugly-stick gang beating....
catatonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 05:30 AM   #16
graham58
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I swear some people become dumbasses once they start reading the Bible .Thankfully it is only a very small number.
cheers
graham
graham58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 05:34 AM   #17
fore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The sex and car ads must be stopped, post haste! Certainly cyclists would never be of the sort to want to have sex or drive somewhere. Stop the presses!
fore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 05:52 AM   #18
77Univega
Drive the Bicycle.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern California
Bikes: Three-speed modified for comfort.
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elveepee
I guess the responses I have recieved to my post gives an idea of what the public attitudes are towards such matters. I, being from an older generation, find it difficult to reconcile newer moral atitudes with what I was brought up believing.
--- The problem with the Liberator Bedroom Adventure Gear advertisements is that they are incomplete. They don't show that those bedroom adventures create bawling infants with poopy diapers. Ha ha ha
__________________
"The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974
77Univega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:00 AM   #19
Artmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW Florida
Bikes: '04 Trek 2300; '06 Bianchi Pista; '57 Maclean; '10 Scott CR1 Pro; 2005 Trek 2000 Tandem; '09 Comotion Macchiato Tandem; 199? Novara Road; 2014 Cannondale T2 tandem
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Well said, Danno!
Artmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:01 AM   #20
baj32161
Behind EVERYone!!!
 
baj32161's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Burlington ON, Canada
Bikes: '11 Cannondale Synapsese 5 105
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fore
The sex and car ads must be stopped, post haste! Certainly cyclists would never be of the sort to want to have sex or drive somewhere. Stop the presses!

Posts like the OP always seem to get my goat. If you (the OP) are willing to write angry letters and cancel your subscription because of this ad, which I have seen, then that certainly is your right. However, it is also your responsibility to educate your grandchildren. If you choose to share this magazine with them and you object to this ad, just tear the page with the offending page out.


Brian
__________________
A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.

― Bruce Lee
baj32161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:02 AM   #21
Artmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW Florida
Bikes: '04 Trek 2300; '06 Bianchi Pista; '57 Maclean; '10 Scott CR1 Pro; 2005 Trek 2000 Tandem; '09 Comotion Macchiato Tandem; 199? Novara Road; 2014 Cannondale T2 tandem
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by graham58
I swear some people become dumbasses once they start reading the Bible .Thankfully it is only a very small number.
cheers
graham
Actually it's a very large number and proportion of the US population compared with most other developed countries. Scary!
Artmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:02 AM   #22
baj32161
Behind EVERYone!!!
 
baj32161's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Burlington ON, Canada
Bikes: '11 Cannondale Synapsese 5 105
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by catatonic
I don't see it as offensive, but it is out of place.

I also dislike the motor vehicle ads in there...no more honda element ads...that car looks like it was part of an ugly-stick gang beating....
Oh my...Heaven forbid we ever need to actually take out bikes anywhere. A car may come in handy from time to time.
__________________
A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.

― Bruce Lee
baj32161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:05 AM   #23
baj32161
Behind EVERYone!!!
 
baj32161's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Burlington ON, Canada
Bikes: '11 Cannondale Synapsese 5 105
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elveepee
Here is correspondence sent to Bicycling Magazine . I think the ad is inappropriate for a cycling magazine.
I am a new subscriber. I am 66 years old and a parent of 6 and
grandparent of 33. I have 4 great grandchildren. I am not a prude,
however there is a ad in your marketplace section by LIBERATOR to which
I object. I share my magazines with my grandchildren and hope that they
will be intrested in cycling. However, that ad has nothing to do with
cycling and is extremely suggestive, also possibly suggesting that it is
ordinary fare for cyclists. If you desire to keep publishing that ad or
others like it, please refund my unused subscription amount and cancel
my subscription. Otherwise, I enjoy your magazine and would enjoy
continuing to recieve it. The choice is yours.
Thank you very much for your consideration.
Lloyd Payne

Their response:
Thank you for contacting Bicycling Magazine.
Although you asked us to stop your subscription, our records indicate
that your account is paid for future copies. Since most of our
customers wish to receive any prepaid copies, we will continue service
until your subscription expires. Should you prefer a refund, simply
return this email instructing us.
Thank you
Bicycling Magazine
ji


My last response to them:
Bicycling Magazine,
ji
As I satated in my original message, I do not wish to recieve any more of
your magazines that contain advertisements for LIBERATOR. I asked you to
indicate if you are going to continue those advertisements and instructed
you to refund my subscription price if you are going to continue to carry
them. They have NO PLACE in a cycling magazine. Please do as I instructed
you. The choice is now up to you and I will do what I need to do next
depending on your response.

Very Sincerely
Lloyd V. Payne
So I guess I can't send you my Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue ?
__________________
A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.

― Bruce Lee
baj32161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:09 AM   #24
EastTennesseeBP
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Bikes: Cannondale f600 MTB, '05 Bianchi Volope
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am more offended by the automobile ads, then the sex ads. In fact one of the reasons I dont get Bicycling magazine is because there isnt enough real content to be worth it. There is more advertising then useful information. I dont feel its the job of a magazine however to filter their ads for sensitive viewers. Thats really the choice and job of the viewer of the magazine. There is sexual geared elements everywhere in media today from sitcoms, to reality tv shows, to TV commercials to magazine commercials. I really think it is our jobs to filter out what we dont want ur children to see etc. Of course it is the subscribers right to protest, so more power to you. But still the ad is still advertising mature consentual adult sex products , it isnt porn and it isnt what you would really call disrespectful.
EastTennesseeBP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-06, 06:13 AM   #25
linux_author
370H-SSV-0773H
 
linux_author's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Penniless Park, Fla.
Bikes: Merlin Fortius, Specialized Crossroads & Rockhopper, Serotta Fierte, Pedal Force RS2
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
- there are a few ads that i don't like in Bicycling - however, my objections concern the fact that the ads are inappropriate to publication's focus (rather than personally offensive)...

- my real problem with Bicycling is its vacuous content and obvious sell-out to manufacturers, such as doing "reviews" based on PR releases and source advertising content, rather than using expertise (none obviously on the editorial staff) and objectivity without regard for print revenue...

- but then again, saying that there's professionalism in today's journalism field is like saying there's virtue among 'street walkers' - witness the fabrications, political bias, and plagiarism at the Times, CBS, Washington Post, etc.
linux_author is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:38 AM.