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  1. #1
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    Bike shop owner "left for dead"


  2. #2
    無くなった HereNT's Avatar
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    The same person is believed to have robbed the bike shop three other times in the past two months.
    WTF? Disgruntled customer maybe? Or just the shop is an easy target?

    That SUCKS.

  3. #3
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    "The same person is believed to have robbed the bike shop three other times in the past two months."
    Did I read this correctly? It's terrible what happened to Mr. Schneider, and I hope he recovers quickly, but Jesus, get a shotgun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
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  4. #4
    One Tough Cookie. Black Bud's Avatar
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    Does Mr. Schneider really want to have to "run the gauntlet" to have a ***?

    Disgruntled customer? Don't think so. Just a dangerous neighborhood...and he's "easy pickins' ".

    As for the suggestion that he should carry a weapon? Are you sure that he would want to go through this process just to have the privilege of being able to use a firearm in self-defense on some "pig" who comes into the shop and tries to rob him? In the United States, the laws pertaining to licensure to carry a weapon differ from state to state, and are affected by Federal Law as well.

    Mr. Schneider is in Cleveland, OH. These are quotes from the law concerning obtaining licensure to carry a firearm, and the requirements of the training course he'd probably have to go through.

    From the OH Revised Code:

    [ 2923.12.5] 2923.125. Application for license to carry concealed *******; issuance, renewal.

    (A) Upon the request of a person who wishes to obtain a license to carry a concealed ******* or to renew a license to carry a concealed *******, a sheriff shall provide to the person free of charge an application form and a copy of the pamphlet described in division (B) of section 109.731 [109.73.1] of the Revised Code.

    This pamphlet deals with firearms laws and requirements for licensure.

    (B) An applicant for a license to carry a concealed ******* shall submit a completed application form and all of the following to the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides or to the sheriff of any county adjacent to the county in which the applicant resides:

    (1) A nonrefundable license fee prescribed by the Ohio peace officer training commission pursuant to division (C) of section 109.731 [109.73.1] of the Revised Code, except that the sheriff shall waive the payment of the license fee in connection with an initial or renewal application for a license that is submitted by an applicant who is a retired peace officer, a retired person described in division (B)(1)(b) of section 109.77 of the Revised Code, or a retired federal law enforcement officer who, prior to retirement, was authorized under federal law to carry a firearm in the course of duty, unless the retired peace officer, person, or federal law enforcement officer retired as the result of a mental disability;

    (2) A color photograph of the applicant that was taken within thirty days prior to the date of the application;

    (3) One or more of the following competency certifications, each of which shall reflect that, regarding a certification described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), (e), or (f) of this section, within the three years immediately preceding the application the applicant has performed that to which the competency certification relates and that, regarding a certification described in division (B)(3)(d) of this section, the applicant currently is an active or reserve member of the armed forces of the United States or within the six years immediately preceding the application the honorable discharge or retirement to which the competency certification relates occurred:

    (a) An original or photocopy of a certificate of completion of a firearms safety, training, or requalification or firearms safety instructor course, class, or program that was offered by or under the auspices of the national ***** association and that complies with the requirements set forth in division (G) of this section;

    (b) An original or photocopy of a certificate of completion of a firearms safety, training, or requalification or firearms safety instructor course, class, or program that satisfies all of the following criteria:

    (i) It was open to members of the general public.

    (ii) It utilized qualified instructors who were certified by the national ***** association, the executive director of the Ohio peace officer training commission pursuant to section 109.75 or 109.78 of the Revised Code, or a governmental official or entity of another state.

    (iii) It was offered by or under the auspices of a law enforcement agency of this or another state or the United States, a public or private college, university, or other similar postsecondary educational institution located in this or another state, a firearms training school located in this or another state, or another type of public or private entity or organization located in this or another state.

    (iv) It complies with the requirements set forth in division (G) of this section.

    (c) An original or photocopy of a certificate of completion of a state, county, municipal, or department of natural resources peace officer training school that is approved by the executive director of the Ohio peace officer training commission pursuant to section 109.75 of the Revised Code and that complies with the requirements set forth in division (G) of this section, or the applicant has satisfactorily completed and been issued a certificate of completion of a basic firearms training program, a firearms requalification training program, or another basic training program described in section 109.78 or 109.801 [109.80.1] of the Revised Code that complies with the requirements set forth in division (G) of this section;
    The ORC continues with alternative methods of qualifying, including prior or current peace office (police) or military service.

    The statute continues, mentioning disqualifying factors, and requirements of the issuing Sheriff if a license is issued. The next part deals with the trianing course:

    (G) (1) Each course, class, or program described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section shall provide to each person who takes the course, class, or program a copy of the pamphlet prepared by the Ohio peace officer training commission pursuant to section 109.731 [109.73.1] of the Revised Code that reviews firearms, dispute resolution, and use of deadly force matters. Each such course, class, or program described in one of those divisions shall include at least twelve hours of training in the safe handling and use of a firearm that shall include all of the following:

    (a) At least ten hours of training on the following matters:

    (i) The ability to name, explain, and demonstrate the rules for safe handling of a ******* and proper storage practices for *******s and ammunition;

    (ii) The ability to demonstrate and explain how to handle ammunition in a safe manner;

    (iii) The ability to demonstrate the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to shoot a ******* in a safe manner;

    (iv) *** handling training.

    (b) At least two hours of training that consists of range time and live-fire training.

    (2) To satisfactorily complete the course, class, or program described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section, the applicant shall pass a competency examination that shall include both of the following:

    (a) A written section on the ability to name and explain the rules for the safe handling of a ******* and proper storage practices for *******s and ammunition;

    (b) A physical demonstration of competence in the use of a ******* and in the rules for safe handling and storage of a ******* and a physical demonstration of the attitude necessary to shoot a ******* in a safe manner.

    (3) The competency certification described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section shall be dated and shall attest that the course, class, or program the applicant successfully completed met the requirements described in division (G)(1) of this section and that the applicant passed the competency examination described in division (G)(2) of this section.

    (4) A person who has received a competency certification as described in division (B)(3) of this section, or who previously has received a renewed competency certification as described in this division, may obtain a renewed competency certification pursuant to this division. If the person has received a competency certification within the preceding six years, or previously has received a renewed competency certification within the preceding six years, the person may obtain a renewed competency certification from an entity that offers a course, class, or program described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section by passing a competency examination of the type described in division (G)(2) of this section. In these circumstances, the person is not required to attend the course, class, or program in order to be eligible to take the competency examination for the renewed competency certification. If more than six years has elapsed since the person last received a competency certification or a renewed competency certification, in order for the person to obtain a renewed competency certification, the person shall both satisfactorily complete a course, class, or program described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section and pass a competency examination of the type described in division (G)(2) of this section. A renewed competency certification issued under this division shall be dated and shall attest that the applicant passed the competency examination of the type described in division (G)(2) of this section and, if applicable, that the person successfully completed a course, class, or program that met the requirements described in division (G)(1) of this section.

    (H) Upon deciding to issue a license, deciding to issue a replacement license, or deciding to renew a license to carry a concealed ******* pursuant to this section, and before actually issuing or renewing the license, the sheriff shall make available through the law enforcement automated data system all information contained on the license. If the license subsequently is suspended under division (A)(1) of section 2923.128 [2923.12.8] of the Revised Code, revoked pursuant to division (B)(1) of section 2923.128 [2923.12.8] of the Revised Code, or lost or destroyed, the sheriff also shall make available through the law enforcement automated data system a notation of that fact. The superintendent of the state highway patrol shall ensure that the law enforcement automated data system is so configured as to permit the transmission through the system of the information specified in this division.

    HISTORY: 150 v H 12, 1, eff. 4-8-04.
    He would not only have to meet very stringent requirements to even legally possess the weapon, but he would have to be entered in the police data base, so they could keep track of him. And, he would still be vunerable if the assailant were to disarm him, or have even stronger firepower on them...and the will to use it!

    So, keeping in mind that he has been robbed three other times in the last two months already, perhaps the better option would be for Mr. Schneider to relocate his business elsewhere and/or hire licensed security personnel to guard the shop. If he continues to run an IBS at all.
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  5. #5
    100% USDA certified the beef's Avatar
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    What an *******. I hope the owner turned out OK.

  6. #6
    J E R S E Y S B E S T Jerseysbest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bud
    Disgruntled customer? Don't think so. Just a dangerous neighborhood...and he's "easy pickins' ".

    As for the suggestion that he should carry a weapon? Are you sure that he would want to go through this process just to have the privilege of being able to use a firearm in self-defense on some "pig" who comes into the shop and tries to rob him? In the United States, the laws pertaining to licensure to carry a weapon differ from state to state, and are affected by Federal Law as well.

    Mr. Schneider is in Cleveland, OH. These are quotes from the law concerning obtaining licensure to carry a firearm, and the requirements of the training course he'd probably have to go through.
    [...]
    He would not only have to meet very stringent requirements to even legally possess the weapon, but he would have to be entered in the police data base, so they could keep track of him. And, he would still be vunerable if the assailant were to disarm him, or have even stronger firepower on them...and the will to use it!

    So, keeping in mind that he has been robbed three other times in the last two months already, perhaps the better option would be for Mr. Schneider to relocate his business elsewhere and/or hire licensed security personnel to guard the shop. If he continues to run an IBS at all.
    I think thats to carry a concelled weapon, not just to have it on site, which is completely different.

    Too bad Schneider didn't have a *** the first try he got robbed, could have took this scum bag off the streets for good, who knows what other crap he's been up too. It'd be really pathetic to shut down a store thats been run for several generations cause of this guy, there comes a point where you can't let criminals run your life.
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  7. #7
    Every day a winding road spinnaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MERTON
    it sounds like the attacker didn't have a ***... probably a bat or something... a twelve gauge could have made the world a better place.

    i hope that ****er burns.
    And there in lies the problem. No telling what charges would have been brought against the owner, including a lawsuit had he shot the scum bag. I can see it know ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was on his way to a baseball game when.......

    Or a lawsuit because the shop owner killed the only bread winner of the family. I'm just waiting for that one to happen. Some lawyer must have at least tried it.


    That's the sad world that we live in. But it would still be worth it to see this piece of crap 6 feet under.

  8. #8
    Banned. sngltrackdufus's Avatar
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    This would make an interesting poll
    "How many people would be thinking of the law over self-preservation while being smashed into the ground.
    Gee uhh Mr. breaking into my store & ready to kill me ,uhh go ahead & pound my skull in & do what you want because i don't want any trouble with the law .

  9. #9
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sngltrackdufus
    This would make an interesting poll
    "How many people would be thinking of the law over self-preservation while being smashed into the ground.
    Gee uhh Mr. breaking into my store & ready to kill me ,uhh go ahead & pound my skull in & do what you want because i don't want any trouble with the law .
    This is apparently how it's done in Europe and Canada.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
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  10. #10
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    Is this really the time and place for this argument?

    "Go to bed you sons of *****es"

  11. #11
    Senior Member skiahh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bud
    Disgruntled customer? Don't think so. Just a dangerous neighborhood...and he's "easy pickins' ".

    As for the suggestion that he should carry a weapon? Are you sure that he would want to go through this process just to have the privilege of being able to use a firearm in self-defense on some "pig" who comes into the shop and tries to rob him? In the United States, the laws pertaining to licensure to carry a weapon differ from state to state, and are affected by Federal Law as well.

    Mr. Schneider is in Cleveland, OH. These are quotes from the law concerning obtaining licensure to carry a firearm, and the requirements of the training course he'd probably have to go through.

    From the OH Revised Code:



    The ORC continues with alternative methods of qualifying, including prior or current peace office (police) or military service.

    The statute continues, mentioning disqualifying factors, and requirements of the issuing Sheriff if a license is issued. The next part deals with the trianing course:



    He would not only have to meet very stringent requirements to even legally possess the weapon, but he would have to be entered in the police data base, so they could keep track of him. And, he would still be vunerable if the assailant were to disarm him, or have even stronger firepower on them...and the will to use it!

    So, keeping in mind that he has been robbed three other times in the last two months already, perhaps the better option would be for Mr. Schneider to relocate his business elsewhere and/or hire licensed security personnel to guard the shop. If he continues to run an IBS at all.
    Sure, just run away. Don't stand up for yourself in any way. That'll get 'em to stop. And that's easier than taking a course on firearm safety and getting a license... you know, since moving a business is such an easy task and all.

    3 times in 2 months? Get a shotgun - no need for a concealed weapon permit there unless you're planning on shoving it down your pant leg and walking around like a a pirate with a wooden leg - and blast the SOB next time he walks through the door. After 3 times the last of which put you in critical condition, he would rightfully be in fear for his life and completely justified in blasting the scumbag pretty much on sight in his shop. And that's in all 50 states....
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  12. #12
    Banned. sngltrackdufus's Avatar
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    Yes, it is pretty easy & simple to speak of legislature & laws if one doesn't live in a rough or "ghetto" neighborhood which is a WHOLE nother thing. When a person or persons snatches you up & puts you on the spot you can sit down & share your thoughts on laws with him/them before you possibly receive a knife in your neck. There is no stopping it in a "mass" sort of way but YOU can hold YOUR own standing .If you choose to lay down that is your business,but guaranteed word will get around.

  13. #13
    Senior Member edp773's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinnaker
    And there in lies the problem. No telling what charges would have been brought against the owner, including a lawsuit had he shot the scum bag. I can see it know ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was on his way to a baseball game when.......

    Or a lawsuit because the shop owner killed the only bread winner of the family. I'm just waiting for that one to happen. Some lawyer must have at least tried it.


    That's the sad world that we live in. But it would still be worth it to see this piece of crap 6 feet under.
    I think a little rock salt in the first shell would have done the trick. Some salt in the butt would leave most people screaming for mercy.
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  14. #14
    Banned. sngltrackdufus's Avatar
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    He could load the shotgun shells with pennies & say "here you go mofo ,spend it in good health" just before he pulls the trigger & blows his guts out through his back.

  15. #15
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    Just so you know...him owning a long *** i.e. shotgun in his place of business is completely legal and he needs absolutely NO training what so ever to obtain one...just an ideaaaaaaaaaaaaa....also, I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm sure it's on packing.org. He may be able to carry at his business without a license to carry since it is afterall his property.
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  16. #16
    Toyota Racing Dev. PWRDbyTRD's Avatar
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    he would not need a permit, even to conceal as long as at his place of business and as far as getting sued....


    Show Full Chapter Email This Page Print This Page




    2305.40. Immunity of owner, lessee or renter of real property as to self-defense or defense of others.





    (A) As used in this section:




    (1) "Firearm" has the same meaning as in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code.




    (2) "Tort action" means a civil action for damages for injury, death, or loss to person or property other than a civil action for damages for a breach of contract or another agreement between persons.




    (3) "Vehicle" has the same meaning as in section 4501.01 of the Revised Code.




    (B) (1) The owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property is not liable in damages to a trespasser on the property, to a member of the family of the trespasser, or to any other person in a tort action for injury, death, or loss to person or property of the trespasser that allegedly is caused by the owner, lessee, renter, or family member if, at the time the injury, death, or loss to person or property allegedly is caused, all of the following apply:




    (a) The owner, lessee, renter, or family member is inside a building or other structure on the property that is maintained as a permanent or temporary dwelling;




    (b) The trespasser has made, is making, or is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the building or other structure described in division (B)(1)(a) of this section;




    (c) The owner, lessee, renter, or family member uses reasonably necessary force to repel the trespasser from the building or other structure described in division (B)(1)(a) of this section or to prevent the trespasser from making the unlawful entry into that building or other structure.




    (2) For purposes of the immunity created by division (B)(1) of this section, reasonably necessary force to repel a trespasser from a building or other structure that is maintained as a permanent or temporary dwelling or to prevent a trespasser from making an unlawful entry into a building or other structure of that nature may include the taking of or attempting to take the trespasser's life, or causing or attempting to cause physical harm or serious physical harm to the person of the trespasser, if the owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property has a reasonable good faith belief that the owner, lessee, or renter or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family is in imminent danger of death or serious physical harm to person and that the only means to escape from the imminent danger is to use deadly force or other force that likely will cause physical harm or serious physical harm to the person of the trespasser, even if the owner, lessee, renter, or family member is mistaken as to the existence or imminence of the danger of death or serious physical harm to person.




    (3) In order to qualify for the immunity created by division (B)(1) of this section, an owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property is not required to retreat from a building or other structure that is maintained as a permanent or temporary dwelling prior to using reasonably necessary force to repel a trespasser from the building or other structure or to prevent a trespasser from making an unlawful entry into the building or other structure.




    (C) The owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property is not liable in damages to a trespasser on the property, to a member of the family of the trespasser, or to any other person in a tort action for injury, death, or loss to person or property of the trespasser that allegedly is caused by the owner, lessee, renter, or family member under circumstances not covered by division (B)(1) of this section if, at the time the injury, death, or loss to person or property allegedly is caused, none of the following applies:




    (1) The injury, death, or loss to person or property is caused by a physical assault of the owner, lessee, renter, or family member upon the trespasser other than in self-defense or defense of a third person.




    (2) Self-defense or defense of a third person is not involved, and the injury, death, or loss to person or property is caused by a vehicle driven or otherwise set in motion, a firearm shot, or any other item of tangible personal property held, driven, set in motion, projected, or thrown by the owner, lessee, renter, or family member with the intent to cause injury, death, or loss to person or property of the trespasser or with the intent to cause the trespasser to believe that the owner, lessee, renter, or family member would cause injury, death, or loss to person or property of the trespasser.




    (3) Under circumstances not described in division (C)(1) or (2) of this section, self-defense or defense of a third person is not involved, and the owner, lessee, renter, or family member intends to create a risk of injury, death, or loss to person or property of any trespasser by direct or indirect means, including, but not limited to, the use of spring guns, traps, or other dangerous instrumentalities.




    (D) (1) This section does not create a new cause of action or substantive legal right against the owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property.




    (2) This section does not affect any civil liability under another section of the Revised Code or the common law of this state of an owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property with respect to individuals other than trespassers, including, but not limited to, civil liability to invitees or licensees.




    (3) This section does not affect any immunities from or defenses to civil liability established by another section of the Revised Code or available at common law to which the owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property may be entitled with respect to individuals other than trespassers, including, but not limited to, immunities from or defenses to civil liability to invitees or licensees.




    (4) This section does not affect any criminal liability that the owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property may have for injury, death, or loss to person or property of a trespasser, invitee, or licensee on the property.




    (5) This section does not affect any immunities from or defenses to civil liability established by another section of the Revised Code or available at common law to which an individual other than the owner, lessee, or renter of real property or a member of the owner's, lessee's, or renter's family who resides on the property may be entitled in connection with injury, death, or loss to person or property of a trespasser on real property owned, leased, or rented by another person, including, but not limited to, self-defense or defense of third persons.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member concernicus's Avatar
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    the owner wouldnt even need a *** or a bat. just beat the burgler over with a fork or seatpost or handlebar. or stab him with some spokes. or strangle him with a brake cable. anyone else?

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    A crankarm with a chainring.

  19. #19
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    Spokes are a good idea. After the perpetrator is subdued tie him up in the backroom & work him over.Like slowly driving a spoke or 2 into his ear canal or up his nose then slitting his skin with a knife & slowly tearing off pieces with pliers....

  20. #20
    One Tough Cookie. Black Bud's Avatar
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    I doubt that a long *** would work in a confined area, such as a bike shop. Needs too long a range. The ****** is what would work...and is what requires licensing.

    Also, it would take long enough to get the training and licensure that he may just find himself out of business, because of insurance issues alone, never mind the lost business, even if he owns the building. (I can just picture what his insurance rates are after these three robbery attempts--or soon will be.) If he's leasing the premises, I would not be surprised if he finds himself on the wrong side of a summary process eviction, even if he can still pay the rent. Again, liability and insurance issues, for him AND for the landlord. Yes, he could fight an eviction attempt in court, but that can take a lot of time, and be a messy process. And, expensive if he hires an attorney.

    It's sad, yet I sincerely doubt he will recover fully from this last hit, if at all. If he manages to recover enough to be able to return to conducting his business, he really should consider relocating. I'd bet any business advisor would say the same.
    A bad day on the bike is better than a good day at work!!

    My discussion board, another resource for the "utility" and commuter cyclist: "Two Wheeled Commuter: The Everyday Cyclist"

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