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Old 04-06-06, 12:39 AM   #1
Fibber
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Opinions on CO2 bicycle pump

Looks like the server ate the thread I started last night, so here goes again. I was shopping for a frame pump when I saw a tiny CO2 cartridge pump from "Genuine Innovations" at my LBS. I bought it on impulse, as it and a spare cartridge fits nicely into my under saddle wedge. I usually am within a reasonable distance from home or car, so the pump is more 'security blanket' than necessity. Anyone have one? Storage life of 16 gram refills?

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Old 04-06-06, 12:50 AM   #2
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I have an Innovations Second Wind - and so far I've been quite happy with it. Rather than waste CO2, I can use the hand-pump to put enough air into the inner-tube make sure the puncture is fixed, and to get it and the tube and tyre to sit nicely on the rim (which usually takes a couple of attempts). Once the tyre is seated, I use the CO2 to do the rest (one cartridge on a 700x23; one and a half on a 26x1.25; and three on a 26x2). I carry 3 or 4 CO2 cartridges on the MTB, but it's still easier than carrying a frame-pump. The Zefal MTB pump is just about useless, and there's nowhere to put a frame-pump on my Bianchi. I think the 16g refills have an indefinite shelf-life.

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Old 04-06-06, 04:49 AM   #3
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I -just- bought one of the Second Wind pumps on severe impulse at my LBS. I'm half tempted to test their return policy on it, though, as it seems like more than I really need right now, since most of my biking is done in a 2-mile radius of work or home, and I just bought the bike.

Still, I might hang on to it... you never know, right?
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Old 04-06-06, 05:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamester
I -just- bought one of the Second Wind pumps on severe impulse at my LBS. I'm half tempted to test their return policy on it, though, as it seems like more than I really need right now, since most of my biking is done in a 2-mile radius of work or home, and I just bought the bike.

Still, I might hang on to it... you never know, right?
If you believe in Karma, pressing your luck, or jinxes, you will hang onto it. You have now just challenged the flat tire gods. They are waiting with bated breath for you to return that pump. As soon as you go pumpless and all cocky about being "only 2 miles" from home, they will flat your tire, maybe both.
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Old 04-06-06, 06:09 AM   #5
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I have 2 Innovations CO2 inflators. On my roadie I carry the Second Wind IH which as has been stated above is both a mini pump and a CO2 inflator. I like this option because you can do the partial inflation you need to do to re-mount the tire and I also use it to find the hole in the tube if I am patching...this way I don't waste my CO2. I also like this unit because it allows the use of the 12g non-threaded cartridges you can buy at Wal-Mart (MUCH cheaper than buying 16g from your LBS). In my wife's bike I put one of their CO2 inflators without the pump...this one also works with all types and sizes of cartridges which is improtant IMO. They work great and like I mentioned above if your unit can take a 12g non threaded go to Wal-Mart and get the pellet gun CO2 cartridges as they cost a fraction of what they would cost at your LBS. One thing I like about the Second Wind IH is that if I am helping someone along the road I can just let them use the pump rather than waste my CO2.
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Old 04-06-06, 07:41 AM   #6
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After a few years experience with both approaches to inflating tyres, I've come to the conclusion that under different circumstances each approach offers benefits the other doesn't. I've carried full frame pumps on old Italian bike, smaller frame pump with an "under the bottle cage" holder, and a co2 inflator. I've also used all three. I like the co2 approach because it does fit in the seat pack and that allows me to keep the bike frame "cleaner". But, in theory a co2 approach can always leave you one cartridge shy of what you'll need. Because of that I limit my co2 rides to the mid to shorter distances (20-45 miles or so).
And then I always carry two cartridges. The advantage of a pump is that you will always have as much compressed air as you need. Assuming the pump doesn't break, you can't run out.

I've seen other threads on this topic where members complain about the discarded co2 cartridges that bikers leave on the road. Thus, people shouldln't use them for environmental reasons. I respect the sentiment, but would argue that what people should really do is take their empties back home and dispose of them properly.
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Old 04-06-06, 07:47 AM   #7
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I just got the hybrid pump,fits in my saddle bag real nice.
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Old 04-06-06, 08:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fibber
Looks like the server ate the thread I started last night, so here goes again. I was shopping for a frame pump when I saw a tiny CO2 cartridge pump from "Genuine Innovations" at my LBS. I bought it on impulse, as it and a spare cartridge fits nicely into my under saddle wedge. I usually am within a reasonable distance from home or car, so the pump is more 'security blanket' than necessity. Anyone have one? Storage life of 16 gram refills?

Steve
Search the forums, this is discussed in great detail. The temperature changes how much you get from a co2 cartridge. Below freezing they don't work unless you warm them up under your jacket and fill the tire quickly, the nozzles freezes up. A tire filled with co2 loses pressure a lot faster than a tire filled with air.

The empty cartridges can be recycled with your cans. (Says Innovations). Innovations says the co2 is just taken from the atmosphere, and any that leaks out is just going back where it came from.

I use BB gun 12 gram cartridges, they cost me a little over 50 cents each. Been using them for about ten years. No problems with "oil" in the BB gun cartridges, Innovations says it's a potential problem.
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Old 04-06-06, 12:28 PM   #9
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C02 vs normal pump is VERY simple. Listen closely.

A pump has infinite amount of "refills" while your C02 does not.
On the flip side the C02 will inflate much faster than your pump.

Now tell me, which is the secuirty blanket. If at anytime you decide to take C02 only, be prepared to walk the entire distance home.
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Old 04-06-06, 12:29 PM   #10
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dp...
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Old 04-06-06, 01:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
C02 vs normal pump is VERY simple. Listen closely.

A pump has infinite amount of "refills" while your C02 does not.
On the flip side the C02 will inflate much faster than your pump.

Now tell me, which is the secuirty blanket. If at anytime you decide to take C02 only, be prepared to walk the entire distance home.
Also unless you have a top of the line co2 which allows you to put in only as much as you want a co2 is almost useless for the dreaded slow leak. While rare, like other flat problems they have an uncanny ability to happen at the worst possible time and place.
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Old 04-06-06, 01:07 PM   #12
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I use a combination of a small pump and CO2. I bought the Carb One pump at 50 grams thinking it was light, small ,and reportedly could pump over 100 lbs. Well it is small, light but can only pump to around 60-70 lbs without killing myself. I'm not surprised So now I take one CO2 cartridge thinking I can fill up the tires with the pump to 60 lbs and could fill up two flats with one cartridge. If I get a 3rd flat I could limp home at 70 lbs if I didnt go too fast. Having a pump is nice since you waist a lot of gas just testing and aligning the tube before really filling the tube.
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Old 04-06-06, 01:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
C02 vs normal pump is VERY simple. Listen closely.

A pump has infinite amount of "refills" while your C02 does not.
On the flip side the C02 will inflate much faster than your pump.

Now tell me, which is the secuirty blanket. If at anytime you decide to take C02 only, be prepared to walk the entire distance home.

While reading your post I listened very carefully. All I can hear is the hard drive running.
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Old 04-06-06, 02:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRUM
If you believe in Karma, pressing your luck, or jinxes, you will hang onto it. You have now just challenged the flat tire gods. They are waiting with bated breath for you to return that pump. As soon as you go pumpless and all cocky about being "only 2 miles" from home, they will flat your tire, maybe both.
My experience tells me that not carrying a cell phone causes flats.
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Old 04-07-06, 12:19 AM   #15
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Thanks for the replys, and sorry for posting without searching first.

I looked at the 'second wind' in the store, but apparently wrongly assumed that it would be too small a volume to be much of a backup pump. Sounds like it is capable, despite its dimunitive size. Too bad I didn't keep the packaging on the midline Ultraflate unit.

Steve
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Old 04-07-06, 10:36 AM   #16
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RE: best pump that I've found

I've had several frame pumps over the years. Currently the best pump I've found is the Topeak Morph.

TJ
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Old 04-09-06, 02:04 PM   #17
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I carry both co2 and frame pump. My blackburn carbon frame pump says it can pump a tyre to 160. Frankly, I can't get it to comfortably pump to 100 lbs. So I use the frame pump to jack it up to about 50lbs and then give a squirt of c02 to crank it up to 115.
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Old 04-10-06, 05:24 AM   #18
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For inflating road tubes enough to re-install the tire, we all carry a pump--our lungs. A couple of puffs or three, and the tube has enough air to hold its shape while I re-mount the tire. After that, well, that's a different story entirely....
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Old 04-11-06, 09:30 AM   #19
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Met a man on last Saturdays' Brevet who had trouble with a CO2 pump. The cylinder froze to his wet gloves.
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Old 04-11-06, 10:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
C02 vs normal pump is VERY simple. Listen closely.

A pump has infinite amount of "refills" while your C02 does not.
On the flip side the C02 will inflate much faster than your pump.

Now tell me, which is the secuirty blanket. If at anytime you decide to take C02 only, be prepared to walk the entire distance home.
I totally agree. I carry CO2, one spare inner tube, no other tools and no cell phone. I'm writing this from home so I've obviously always made it back. Worry less and enjoy life more.
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Old 05-18-06, 09:27 PM   #21
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Well, it turns out this story has a happy ending after all. After posting that I had discarded the packaging, I found it amongst the piles on my workbench. Found a lot of other interesting stuff that had disappeared long ago! Note to self: Clean the tabletop more often. But I digress.....

Once I had everything, I called my LBS and asked about exchanging the basic unit for the Innovations Second Wind MTB. Mike had never heard of it before, but would order one for me. As I had never used the open one, I could 'trade up'. It finally came in last week, and I picked it up today. What a neat unit! It has more capacity than the original 'Second Wind' (better for MTB tires), yet is almost as compact. It still fits in my saddle bag with one cartridge inside ready to go, and a spare banded to it.

I tried it out earlier this evening on a flat on one of the bikes down in the basement, and with pumping alone I got it up to limp-home pressure in a pretty reasonable amount of time. If I were to then throw in a 16 gm cartridge on top of the pumping, I'm sure I could get it to the 50 - 60 psi range. Plus, as you guys rightly pointed out, you need some air to diagnose the leak, and help with reseating the tire/tube on the rim.

So I thank you all for your comments and inputs. I was sold on the idea of a compact CO2 unit, but now have the "right" unit.

Steve
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Old 05-18-06, 11:30 PM   #22
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While reading your post I listened very carefully. All I can hear is the hard drive running.
You need a new HDD like a Western Digital 250GB SATA II with 16mb cache then you wont hear it anymore.
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