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Old 04-15-06, 12:05 PM   #1
esrevernitlepS
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A Specific Lock Question

So I'm doing some lock shopping. I'm wondering if I should go with an OnGuard Brute, or the smaller OnGuard Bulldog MINI DT 5015. The latter is less expensive, but price isn't really a concern. I'm wondering if the Brute is really strong enough to warrant the extra 3 pounds in weight.

On the one hand, Sold Secure rates the Brute a level above the Mini; but if you subscribe to the Sheldon Brown school of thought, the small size is an advantage.

Any help's appreciated.
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Old 04-15-06, 12:27 PM   #2
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How safe do you think that you need to be?

The first lock that you put on your bike, regardless of how cheesy, is about 90% effective because it forces the thief to bring a tool with him.

To go from 90% to 99% you engage in a high tech game of one-up-manship with the thief.

There is no 100% lock. If you leave your bike in the same place every day a determined thief will figure out what he has to do to steal it. It might be as simple as cutting your frame tubes so that he can sell off the components.
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Old 04-15-06, 12:27 PM   #3
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I've got a Bulldog Mini - go for it. It's a great lock, and yes, the small size will work to your advantage. It may only have a 3-1/2 star rating on the site, but that's just marketing BS: it's actually a really, really good lock. One magazine tested a bunch of U-locks, along with the famous Kryptonite New York Mini lock. The Bulldog came in second next to the $100+ Kryptonite.. both were virtually immune to prying with a crowbar. When they tried to pry the Bulldog using the frame as a lever they actually bent the frame while the lock stayed intact. The Bulldog also withstood professional, heavy-duty, ear-splitting power tools for 2 1/2 minutes, I believe. Which is very, very good.
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Old 04-15-06, 03:30 PM   #4
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Very informative. Thank you.
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Old 04-15-06, 03:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
How safe do you think that you need to be?
I live in Manhattan--so safe enough to leave outdoors for a few hours in the capital of bike theft. There's also the Kryptonite locks, but where I'm getting my lock, the nice Kryptos are a good deal pricier, and I'm not convinced they work any better.
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Old 04-15-06, 03:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esrevernitlepS
So I'm doing some lock shopping. I'm wondering if I should go with an OnGuard Brute, or the smaller OnGuard Bulldog MINI DT 5015. The latter is less expensive, but price isn't really a concern. I'm wondering if the Brute is really strong enough to warrant the extra 3 pounds in weight.

On the one hand, Sold Secure rates the Brute a level above the Mini; but if you subscribe to the Sheldon Brown school of thought, the small size is an advantage.

Any help's appreciated.
I'd go with the Brute. The Brute is rated 4 stars (the highest rating) by the independent ART Foundation. The Pitbull is rated 2 stars.
http://www.stichtingart.nl/sloten_resultaat.asp

Sold Secure (another independent lock tester) rates the Brute gold (the highest) and the Pitbull silver.
http://www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
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Old 04-15-06, 03:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esrevernitlepS
I live in Manhattan--so safe enough to leave outdoors for a few hours in the capital of bike theft. There's also the Kryptonite locks, but where I'm getting my lock, the nice Kryptos are a good deal pricier, and I'm not convinced they work any better.
In places like NYC get the best possible lock you can afford. Locks are something you shouldn't cheap out on.
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Old 04-15-06, 07:16 PM   #8
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I have had to saw through the U of a lock in the past. A titanium blade for a hacksaw does the job in about 20 min.. A new blade and a better arm probably 10. I suggest that you take the seat and all skewers/clamps with you. And maybe the front wheel.
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Old 04-15-06, 07:44 PM   #9
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It might be as simple as cutting your frame tubes so that he can sell off the components.
That just doesn't happen. If they're going to bring out the firepower to cut your frame tubes, they'll just cut your lock instead. If they wanted to steal components, anyone with a hex wrench can do that.
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Old 04-16-06, 07:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by operator
That just doesn't happen. If they're going to bring out the firepower to cut your frame tubes, they'll just cut your lock instead. If they wanted to steal components, anyone with a hex wrench can do that.
What's your point?

My point is that a thief doesn't have to worry about damaging your bike.
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Old 04-16-06, 08:42 AM   #11
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One thing to remember about massive locks is sometimes they will not open. Has happend to me twice with Krypto combination locks. Someone may have tried to force lock open with a hammer as switch used to open it did not engage any more. Then what do you do? In NYC I see bikes chained and rusting away, I think the owners could not open the locks. I suggest you just buy a cheap bike.
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Old 04-17-06, 10:45 AM   #12
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I already have a relatively expensive bike. I'm not afraid of the lock jamming--if it does, I'll get the proper tools/assistance and cut it open myself. If a thief can do it, so can I--and I don't need to worry about being caught.
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Old 04-17-06, 12:15 PM   #13
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thebeef - hey there, did I miss a new review out somewhere? Let me know where you saw it because as far as I know, the New York Fahgettaboudit U-lock that you mentioned, hasn't been tested by any publications yet. I'm waiting to see if any have done it yet, but haven't seen it. I'd be interested to hear where you saw it so I can run out and get it! If it wasn't that lock then it was the Evolution Mini, which is the original Mini. Oh yea, neither are over $100, at least at the MSRP - don't know what a shop might be selling it for, though.
Thanks, 'beef'!
Safe riding, all!
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Old 04-17-06, 04:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esrevernitlepS
I live in Manhattan--so safe enough to leave outdoors for a few hours in the capital of bike theft. There's also the Kryptonite locks, but where I'm getting my lock, the nice Kryptos are a good deal pricier, and I'm not convinced they work any better.
I have both. I use the OnGuard "mini" or the Kryptonite Evolution "mini" for thirty minute stops in the afternoon at coffee shops or for a fifteen minute shopping trip. For the midnight movies, I use the Brute or the Kryptonite New York 3000.

Manhattan? A "nice" bike will be left alone for "a few hours"? That sounds like a situation where an expensive bike could benefit from using both. The Brute around the rear wheel. The "mini" around the front wheel. Attached to massive steel posts set in concrete. On a busy sidewalk where guys with power tools would look out of place.

The new Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit u-lock got a favorable review from "Slate" this week. This ultra-strong lock is available on E-Bay for only $59, including free priority mail delivery.

Last edited by alanbikehouston; 04-19-06 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 04-17-06, 05:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
What's your point?

My point is that a thief doesn't have to worry about damaging your bike.
My point is that they DO worry about damaging your bike. Because they want to steal it.
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Old 04-18-06, 01:31 PM   #16
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I have a Brute. I thought about something cheaper or smaller, but in my mind, a big, heavy, hunk of steel just seems safer and I think I have more peace of mind than if I would have bought something smaller. As a side note, that thing is so big and heavy, you have to be a brute just to lug it around. However, its a small price to pay for keeping my baby safe.
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Old 04-18-06, 08:02 PM   #17
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speaking of bike locks and theives, its definately better to get a good lock instead of a cheap one where it can be stolen easily. but if i want a good quality lock like the ones listed above, where can i usually find them in my area? should local bike shops have them in stock?
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Old 04-18-06, 10:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptonite Lock
thebeef - hey there, did I miss a new review out somewhere? Let me know where you saw it because as far as I know, the New York Fahgettaboudit U-lock that you mentioned, hasn't been tested by any publications yet. I'm waiting to see if any have done it yet, but haven't seen it. I'd be interested to hear where you saw it so I can run out and get it! If it wasn't that lock then it was the Evolution Mini, which is the original Mini. Oh yea, neither are over $100, at least at the MSRP - don't know what a shop might be selling it for, though.
Thanks, 'beef'!
Safe riding, all!
Ah. Sorry, my mistake - I quoted the review without properly consulting it. The Krypto lock was actually a Fahgettaboudit chain lock - it lasted eight minutes to pro power tools, according to the article. They also tested the New York 3000 (not mini), which lasted ten minutes to power tools. The New York 3000 won the award of "best bike lock" for high crime areas, with the Bulldog Mini winning "best bike lock" for recreational use and lower crime areas.

You can find this reivew in the April 2005 issue of UK's "Cycling Plus" Magazine.
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Old 04-19-06, 07:47 AM   #19
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thebeef: Thanks for the clarification. I thought I missed something - which can easily happen with all the information out and about these days. It's hard for one person to keep up with it all, isn't it?!
However, since we've had this exchange, there has been a review of the New York Fahgettboudit U-lock. You can find it here:
http://bicyclemarketingwatch.blogspot.com/
Just came out last night. We are very proud of our new 'baby'.
Safe riding everyone!
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Old 04-19-06, 12:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptonite Lock
thebeef: Thanks for the clarification. I thought I missed something - which can easily happen with all the information out and about these days. It's hard for one person to keep up with it all, isn't it?!
However, since we've had this exchange, there has been a review of the New York Fahgettboudit U-lock. You can find it here:
http://bicyclemarketingwatch.blogspot.com/
Just came out last night. We are very proud of our new 'baby'.
Safe riding everyone!
Your link seems to be incorrect. There is no review at http://bicyclemarketingwatch.blogspot.com/

Perhaps you posted the wrong link.....
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Old 04-19-06, 05:46 PM   #21
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The new review of the Fahgetaboudit u-lock was published on the "Slate" website. Someone posted a link to the Slate review the other day, so a search for "Kryptonite" and "Slate" should bring up the link.
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Old 04-20-06, 06:58 AM   #22
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Ziemas - what a ding-a-ling I am! I was sending someone else that link for an interview with Bob Roll that they wanted to see. This is the Slate review that I meant to link to that Alan references.
http://www.slate.com/id/2140083/

Is it FRIDAY yet?!
Donna
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Old 04-20-06, 08:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Kryptonite Lock
Ziemas - what a ding-a-ling I am! I was sending someone else that link for an interview with Bob Roll that they wanted to see. This is the Slate review that I meant to link to that Alan references.
http://www.slate.com/id/2140083/

Is it FRIDAY yet?!
Donna
The "Slate" review is well done. The writer used the sorts of tools that the typical street crook uses. And, he found out exactly what Soldsecure.com found out, and "Cycling Plus" editors found out. Cable locks are not really locks...they are just a sign saying "Get your free bike right here". El cheapo U-locks sold at Wal-Mart don't last long against the proper tools.

And, no surprise, the most expensive locks, such as the Fahgettaboudit U-lock, provide the most protection. Yes, carrying a five pound lock is a hassle. But, walking home, because your bike has gone missing, is an even bigger hassle.
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Old 04-20-06, 11:48 AM   #24
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I just noticed Onguard has a new pitbull mini called the 5013TC .
http://www.onguardlock.com/2006-OnGuardLocks.pdf
It has a thinner cover so i guess the size is more like the bulldog. I like how it has a yellow strip on it, so from a casual look it appears like the Krypto New York.
Looks like locks are starting to copy the animal world, mimicking others to gain an advantage!
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Old 04-20-06, 01:10 PM   #25
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I just noticed Onguard has a new pitbull mini called the 5013TC .
http://www.onguardlock.com/2006-OnGuardLocks.pdf
It has a thinner cover so i guess the size is more like the bulldog. I like how it has a yellow strip on it, so from a casual look it appears like the Krypto New York.
Looks like locks are starting to copy the animal world, mimicking others to gain an advantage!

I didn't see a new mini pitbull, only a new mini bulldog. I think the same results could be had by removing the plastic casing cover on the bar of any mini. Would make it lighter, for sure.
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