Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-17-06, 06:38 PM   #1
ianh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Carbon frame damage

I bought a full carbon frame race bike last week. I was unable to clip out when a car pulled out and fell on my side. I was hardly moving. I later noticed three hairline cracks running length ways, mid way along the top tube. Two on one side each about an inch long and one on the top about two inches long. The cracks appear to be only in the clear coat epoxy finish. Along the top crack there is a small amount of delamination between the clear coat and carbon mat below. Is this reasonable damage for an incident like this? I am not too heavy, only 140 lbs. What do you think I should do? Thanks.
ianh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-06, 08:13 PM   #2
gpelpel
Senior Member
 
gpelpel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lafayette, CA
Bikes: Time VXRS, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR
Posts: 2,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would have your dealer look at it. I do not know the force of the crash so it very difficult to make any judgement. They could only be scratches but better be safe than sorry. Did you hear any cracking noise?
I hope you are fine yourself and got the car's license plate.
gpelpel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-06, 08:16 PM   #3
TomM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes: Trek5000
Posts: 951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can you post pictures?
TomM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-06, 10:00 PM   #4
ianh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Will take some pics and get back to you. Thanks,
ianh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-06, 06:48 AM   #5
alanbikehouston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You need to have it checked by your dealer. And, after the dealer checks it, if there is still any question of damage, you need to send it back to the factory for a better check. Multiple layers of primer, paint, and sealer will conceal the actual condition of the outer surface of the tube. Checking the condition of the inside of the tube would require factory expertise.

Falling on your side can deliver a massive impact to both the back and to the rider. A man who had been cycling almost daily for thirty years was killed when he stopped at a stop sign and then fell over and crushed his skull on the concrete. A friend of mine had a similar fall a few years back and crushed her helmet...she got off with a bad headache.
alanbikehouston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-06, 06:59 AM   #6
khuon
DEADBEEF
 
khuon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Catching his breath alongside a road near Seattle, WA USA
Bikes: 1999 K2 OzM, 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
Posts: 12,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can do a quick check using some vasoline and a blacklight but this will only reveal a clearcut (no pun intended) crack. Having the manufacturer or professional CF shop check it out is the only way to be truly sure. You might inquire at a local marina or airport FBO as some boat and airplane repair shops have the equipment such as X-ray machines to inspect CF and other materials for microfractures.
__________________
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
khuon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-06, 10:20 AM   #7
Banzai
Jet Jockey
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike.
Posts: 4,310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Countdown to the next CF v. any metal alloy debate in 5...4...3...
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Banzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-06, 11:05 PM   #8
ianh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Update... Haven't managed to get any photos for you yet, but took the bike into my dealer today. They were not sure what to make of it. He could not see any impact point and wants the manufacturer's rep to take a look in the next couple of days. He noted that most CF frames fail at the front or around the crank. No bike for a few days :-( I'm keeping my fingers crossed as the largest crack seems to be following the join of two CF mats. There is only clear laquer on the part of the top tube were the largest crack is and you can see the bi directional CF mat below meets up with another mat edge.

Thanks for all your comments. Has anyone had similar cracking?
ianh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-06, 11:48 PM   #9
Siu Blue Wind
Flowers for mom
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 10,950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
I just KNEW there was a reason to be frightened of CF. I freak out because it's on my seatstays.



On my other bike, not
<<<<<<< this one
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddha
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
Siu Blue Wind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 06:06 AM   #10
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent
Posts: 8,907
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai_f16
Countdown to the next CF v. any metal alloy debate in 5...4...3...
Speaking as someone with a crack in his aluminum frame, I'm not throwing any stones!
BlazingPedals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-06, 07:18 AM   #11
MKRG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: by a big river
Bikes:
Posts: 2,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There is no debate. There is only Steel.
MKRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 04:24 AM   #12
GuitarWizard
Used to be a climber..
 
GuitarWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: East Baldwin, ME
Bikes: 2016 Ridley Fenix SL, 2013 PedalForce RS3-ISP, 2015 Trek 520 Disc
Posts: 6,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKRG
There is no debate. There is only Steel.
While this may have been true back in 1967, things have progressed a bit since then.
GuitarWizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 09:09 AM   #13
Phantoj
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When a laminate sustains an impact, the damage is likely to be more severe on the side of the surface opposite to the impacted side. So you're more likely to have damage (broken fibers, delamination) on the inside of the tube than the outside.

One particularly germane question: suppose it is damaged - what are you going to do? Will you be offered a free or cheap replacement frame? Or will you just throw away your current frame and have to buy new?

If I couldn't get a free or cheap replacement, I would personally just ride the frame. What's the worst that could happen? I've read of several stories of cracked frames, and the common thread is that the cracked frame generally does not result in injury. If you travel Jobst-approved Alpine passes or are planning a long tour where a frame failure would be very inconvenient, of course, riding with a possibly damaged frame might not be acceptable.

As usual, IMO, your injuries may vary, etc.

Furthermore: while frame failures generally result in no injuries, fork failures generally result in substantial injuries. Check your fork!
Phantoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 09:42 AM   #14
Nightshade
Humvee of bikes =Worksman
 
Nightshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh HORRORS!!! Check this out!!!
Nightshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 08:46 PM   #15
ianh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Update !! The manufacturer's rep has taken a look, agreed the crack was weird and agreed to replace the frame under warranty. Great sigh of relief.. My LBS has kindly agreed to lend me another bike for the days prior to getting the new frame. Everyone agreed that any frame should be able to withstand toppling over while forgetting to clip out.

This incident has made me think more about the pros and cons of composite frames. Some really interesting pics on that last post Tightwad. Quality control does seem to be a key issue for composite frame manufacture. The manufacture of composites is far more dependent of the skill of labour, compared to alloy/steel. I have always been an alloy / steel frame cyclist, but was seduced by the offer of carbon comfort for the long rides. My recovery times are not getting any shorter and every little bit of comfort helps.

Unless we all go out and get xray specs, we will never really know what lurks below the glossy paint job of our expensive carbon components. Unless of course they dump us on the road one day..
ianh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 08:56 PM   #16
Blue Order
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
While this may have been true back in 1967, things have progressed a bit since then.
Carbon is still suspect after impact, carbon still has a short life span, steel still lasts forever.
Blue Order is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 08:57 PM   #17
Blue Order
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianh
Unless we all go out and get xray specs, we will never really know what lurks below the glossy paint job of our expensive carbon components...
Stress fractures.

You know, those things that don't lurk beneath the glossy paint jobs of outdated steel.
Blue Order is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 09:00 PM   #18
khuon
DEADBEEF
 
khuon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Catching his breath alongside a road near Seattle, WA USA
Bikes: 1999 K2 OzM, 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
Posts: 12,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianh
Quality control does seem to be a key issue for composite frame manufacture. The manufacture of composites is far more dependent of the skill of labour, compared to alloy/steel.
If I had a nickel for every time I posted that statement, I'd have a enough money for several new carbon fibre frames.

Bicycle applications of carbon fibre is like lasik eye surgery. It hasn't been around long enough for the majority of old-school cyclists to have much faith in it. It's execution is based on a lot of craftsmanship and skill (contrary to those who think good CF frames are stamped out of a big robotic machine). There are a lot of places where one can make a manufacturing mistake. There's a myriad of construction techniques. The technology is constantly being evolved, advanced and refined.
__________________
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
khuon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 10:50 PM   #19
Ziemas
Senior Member
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Sounds like very good customer service from the frame maker. What brand of frame is it?
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-06, 11:11 PM   #20
ianh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
Sounds like very good customer service from the frame maker. What brand of frame is it?
I have been hesitating to name the frame maker. But now that I have the problem resolved it is an Avanti Carbonio 06. Many thanks Mr Avanti for helping me out. Compact frame, it rides well, lovely and smooth.

One of the cheapest full carbon bikes you can get - comes with 105 group set. Who's going to be the first to say "you get what you pay for"??
ianh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:25 AM.