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Old 05-20-06, 01:31 PM   #1
edp773
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Speed Limit on MUT

In Indiana police are now able to enforce speed limits on a mutli use trail. The fine is $50 and the police can use radar guns. What do you think of this law?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...WS01/605200484
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Old 05-20-06, 01:47 PM   #2
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It makes sense. I don't like it, but it makes sense. Pedestrians wander. Two of them can manage to block a 20' wide path, they walk backwards (so help me, they do!) without looking where they are going, and tend to be comatose to the point of being oblivious to the air horn on a diesel locomotive. Okay, I hate pedestrians with a passion uncontested, but given their behavior, 20mph is just too fast, especially when you have a few cyclists with attitudes.

Hey, how 'bout a pedestrian lane that they can't stray out of without accepting full liability? I know, in my dreams.
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Old 05-20-06, 04:07 PM   #3
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Well, 15-20mph is still pretty darn fast. We've got a "beachway" on the beach here and it's full of tourists and rental pedicabs. I usually don't ride more than 10-15mph anyway to check out the scenery. If I wanted to hammer on a training ride, I'll just use the street.

Maybe it's cities named Carmel that must pass laws for those without common-sense. Did you know that in Carmel, CA they have a law that forbids women from wearing high-heels in public within city limits?
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Old 05-20-06, 04:25 PM   #4
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No problem with me, 15 or 20 is fast enough on MUT's. I have had a lot of near misses with road weenies trying to time trial on local MUT's including one who crashed into our burley trailer with my kid in it( a-hole roadie got the worst of it)
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Old 05-20-06, 06:42 PM   #5
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I think it's a good idea. They are MUTs, and as others have said, if you want to go fast, that's not the appropriate place to do it.
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Old 05-20-06, 07:01 PM   #6
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I like the idea. I've seen a lot of riders on the local MUP taking unecessary risks around pedestrians and vice versa. To avoid all that mess I prefer to ride the MUP in the early morning so by the time it is beginning to get crowded I'm finishing my ride.
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Old 05-20-06, 07:22 PM   #7
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It's been that way in Denver for a couple years now and should be that way everywhere.

It's a MUT, there's gonna be kids. Any idiot who's going 20+mph should be in traffic, period. Pisses me off to no end when I see "roadies" -- and what the hell are "roadies" doing on a MUT? -- riding way too fast for the trail zipping by kids, elderly and animals. Stupid ****s.
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Old 05-20-06, 08:03 PM   #8
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We have a 15 mph limit on the local trail, occasionally there will be cycle police out there to nab speeders with tickets. I think it's a pretty reasonable law. On the flipside, I confess that I regularly exceed the speed limit. Trouble is, the trail is really the only way I can escape urban congestion and get out to areas where I can really ride. I don't have a car right now, so the trail gets incorporated into my ride. As a result, I take my average ride pace even while I'm on the trail, which usually ends up a hair above 20 mph. I feel a little hypocritical, I just can't find another good way to get out and ride.

I guess I do okay, though. I always slow done well in advance whenever I see pedestrians or slower cyclists/skaters up ahead, and I definitely obey all other trail laws - none of that 'zipping between an old lady on one side and two bikers on the other' kind of stuff for me.
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Old 05-20-06, 08:12 PM   #9
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'Sokay, beef. Most laws are made for people who just can't or won't exercise good judgement. And, of course, some are made by people with truely terrible judgement.
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Old 05-20-06, 09:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOpie
It's been that way in Denver for a couple years now and should be that way everywhere.

It's a MUT, there's gonna be kids. Any idiot who's going 20+mph should be in traffic, period. Pisses me off to no end when I see "roadies" -- and what the hell are "roadies" doing on a MUT? -- riding way too fast for the trail zipping by kids, elderly and animals. Stupid ****s.
I see a lot of roadies on the MUP I ride as this MUP is a pretty flat and fast (in the morning anyways, before the winds kick in). This MUP is also used for races or time trials or something like that on Sunday morning sometimes. It doesn't bother me, but I do wish they would post signs or something to warn pedestrians (and all MUP users for that matter) that these sorts of events are going to happen. I was on the MUP with my younger brother once when one of these events was going on and didn't feel comfortable having him around these guys/gals going at such fast speeds.
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Old 05-20-06, 10:54 PM   #11
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Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch. Carmel is the wealthy suburb of Indianapolis. Multi-million dollar homes. Full of types who think they own the road, the MUP, and anyone/anything else that strikes their fancy. I just wish they'd extend that speed limit, and enforcement thereof, on into the city proper. Since most of that trail is in Indy, you know they aren't just riding too fast in the tiny bit in Carmel.
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Old 05-20-06, 11:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Maybe it's cities named Carmel that must pass laws for those without common-sense. Did you know that in Carmel, CA they have a law that forbids women from wearing high-heels in public within city limits?
Maybe its a continuation of a Biblical pattern. Carmel in the Old Testament was home to Nabal, whose name means "Fool" and whose poor judgment lead to his demise.

Ok, gotta know -- why did they pass an anti-high heel law, and does it only apply to females? In some areas here, the gals are ... sometimes guys.
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Old 05-20-06, 11:15 PM   #13
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I think because some tourist chic probably tripped on the cobblestones or got it caught in a drainage grate and then sued the city... Clint Eastwood should've done away with that regulation when he was in office... along with some of the others that he abolished to get his restaurant's expansion underway.
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Old 05-21-06, 07:11 AM   #14
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Anyone seen a bike cop in his/her over burdened MTB catch a roadie at speed? Last, and only one that tried to run me down on his bike had to call a police crusier to catch me for allegedly not putting a foot down at a stop.
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Old 05-21-06, 08:11 AM   #15
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AAAGGRRRHHHH!!!!!!! I figured this would hit the forum eventually. I ride that section of trail all the time. The Carmel section is not the busiest section, there are others (Broadripple especially) that are much busier.

The problem is, there are times when there are a lot of people on the trail and I slow down to avoid the pedestrians. However, there are also times when there are very few people on the trail and slowing down to 15MPH puts a cramp in my style! My $.02.
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Old 05-21-06, 01:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edp773
In Indiana police are now able to enforce speed limits on a mutli use trail. The fine is $50 and the police can use radar guns. What do you think of this law?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...WS01/605200484
It is good to have police prescence in the MUT's ... hopefully they are patrolling the area in civilian clothes with fast bikes and cops.
BTW ... I get my fast miles on the road. The trail is for the easy days of street vending pretzel and icecream goodness.
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Old 05-21-06, 05:13 PM   #17
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While denver may have these rules in place, I have yet to see those rules enforced.
My average speed is 15 mph on a few MUPs. I'm constantly dusted by roadies.
A very busy MUP I use is even worse. I average 20-25mph and still get passed. Fortunately, I slow down when appropriate. Others do not.
Then again, I occasionally get the speed bug with a nice tailwind and haul arse in the mid to upper 20s on this path. At least I slow down for peds.
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Old 05-21-06, 05:29 PM   #18
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Most of our MUTs here are limited to 15MPH. In some places, it's less.



Fortunately, there are alternatives and there are signs that point to them...



I have seen cops radar-gunning and stopping cyclists before. As a matter of fact, one section of the Sammamish River Trail passes right behind the Redmond PD HQ.

While, I think speed limits are by-and-large a good thing, I admit that I'm no angel and have on repeated occasions violated it on the local trails... sometimes without even knowing it. It's a bit tough sometimes to hold it down to under 15MPH especially when the trail is empty. I do try to use good judgement however and slow down in the presence of pedestrians. Generally speaking, I will hop to roads if I find myself needing to scratch the speed-itch.

One thing about most MUTs around here is that they were originally intended to be just bikepaths but were later reclassified as MUTs.
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Old 05-21-06, 05:52 PM   #19
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[Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch. Carmel is the wealthy suburb of Indianapolis. Multi-million dollar homes. Full of types who think they own the road, the MUP, and anyone/anything else that strikes their fancy. I just wish they'd extend that speed limit, and enforcement thereof, on into the city proper. Since most of that trail is in Indy, you know they aren't just riding too fast in the tiny bit in Carmel.]

Hey AverageCommuter, do you know how they patrol this Trail? Even though the trail is wide, I hope they are not planning to use sqaud cars on the path. Unfortunately, I have seen this done on a 8 ft. wide path with a chain link fence on one side and a rip-rap drop off on the other side.

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Old 05-21-06, 11:17 PM   #20
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I would love to see a sign like that one saying "Fast Cyclists Use Road." The MUP closest to me has a 15 mph weekend speed limit -- and is so crowded that that is not sustainable without being a nuisance and a hazard. The parallel road has a 25 mph limit and agressive photo radar. As far as I'm concerned anyone not walking or using training wheels should be on the road.
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Old 05-22-06, 07:19 AM   #21
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Don't speed limits imply that bikes must have speedometers? Can they make that stick without also passing a law requiring bikes to have speedometers? Also, what is the variance? With cars you generally have to be 10 over before it gets enforced. And is police radar reliable at low speeds, since its probably designed for 25 and up.
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Old 05-22-06, 07:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Don't speed limits imply that bikes must have speedometers? Can they make that stick without also passing a law requiring bikes to have speedometers? Also, what is the variance? With cars you generally have to be 10 over before it gets enforced. And is police radar reliable at low speeds, since its probably designed for 25 and up.
All good points -- and reasons why maybe enforcement is not the best option for MUT's. That's why I like the idea of signs that say "Fast cyclists use road." It appeals to people's vanity.

Of course, a lot of people think that the whole reason for trails is to get cyclists off the road, so encouraging them to get on the road may not be popular!
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Old 05-22-06, 08:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Don't speed limits imply that bikes must have speedometers?
It's less about numbers and more about safety.

Plenty of cops (Platte River trail south of REI for those in Denver) and Rangers in JeffCo parks give speeding and reckless cycling citations.

And just cuz you don't know how fast you're going doesn't make you less reponsible for your speed.
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Old 05-22-06, 10:08 PM   #24
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Old 05-23-06, 04:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Don't speed limits imply that bikes must have speedometers? Can they make that stick without also passing a law requiring bikes to have speedometers? Also, what is the variance? With cars you generally have to be 10 over before it gets enforced. And is police radar reliable at low speeds, since its probably designed for 25 and up.
It's more about riding at a reasonable and prudent speed. It's a Multi-Use Trail, which means everyone must share its use. I'm all for enforcement, maybe they could nail a couple of the long-leash dog walkers while they're waiting for the next speeding cyclist.
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