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Old 01-11-03, 08:26 AM   #1
MikeOK
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Roland Green and his cleat- cheater?

I remember seeing this race on OLN, and I also remember how those anal announcers made such a big deal out of such a little thing. Another thing I remember is how the other racers didn't protest because it is a silly rule he broke, and besides Roland was such a man that he was able to break down, wait for someone to drop him a tool, fix his problem and still wax the competition. Here's a quote from the last Mountain Bike mag:

"At the NORBA season opener at Big Bear, Green was riding away from the field when, on his last lap, his cleat came loose. Having started the race sans tools, Green was frantically looking for a solution before the pack of chasers could catch him. But there was no solution... until his "teammate" Ryder Hesjedal rode by and threw him a multitool. Green tightened his cleat and went on to win the race."

This article goes on to describe a very different set of circumstances than I remember seeing, it also even goes so far as slandering Canadians, our good neighbors to the north.

What do you think?
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Old 01-11-03, 08:43 AM   #2
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Heyyyy, did you get this idea from another forum?

I believe that it should not be illegal to to borrow tools to fix your bike while racing as long as you do the work your self.

I have not read the artical and I did not see the race but it seems to me that if you head out on a race and forget to pack a multi-tool you should be able to borrow. Also, if you are racing on a team you can have one rider who might carries a multi-tool so the #1 rider does not have too.

Just my thoughts.

Slainte
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Old 01-11-03, 08:51 AM   #3
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I figured I would get hammered because this had been brought up before, but I also first read the article this morning. It's page 10 of the Jan Mountain Bike. I saw the original race, and I was surprised at how much different it seemed back then than the way this article made it sound.
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Old 01-11-03, 10:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeOK
I remember seeing this race on OLN, and I also remember how those anal announcers made such a big deal out of such a little thing.

What do you think?
Well, my thoughts are that Roland made a choice not to carry any tools with him - thus giving him a very slight weight and bulk advantage over the competition that did pack tools. To then borrow a tool from another rider is simply not fair to the other riders sporting tools. So, I do think that the rule is just.

The obvious way not to get burned by this rule is to carry a multi-tool with you. If you chose to risk it - let the cards fall where they may. Roland knew the rules going into the race, and chose to take a calculated risk. So, either change the rules, or play by the rules.
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Old 01-11-03, 11:09 AM   #5
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That has got to be one of the most ******** rules I have ever heard of...

when a fellow race-car driver breaks down... or a rally racer breaks down... (on the side of the road)... other teams sometimes stop and help..


why can't they in biking?


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Old 01-11-03, 11:10 AM   #6
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Originally posted by bac
The obvious way not to get burned by this rule is to carry a multi-tool with you. If you chose to risk it - let the cards fall where they may. Roland knew the rules going into the race, and chose to take a calculated risk. So, either change the rules, or play by the rules.
True, and I wonder why he didn't have one, but... If the guy had done this intentionally to win the race that would make a huge difference. Green had an obvious disadvantage with his mechanical, and still came back to smash the competition. I remember on OLN when they interviewed a couple of the other riders about this, they pretty much agreed with what I have said here. The guy is just a super-human and the rule is silly.
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Old 01-11-03, 11:16 AM   #7
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Originally posted by BigHit-Maniac
when a fellow race-car driver breaks down... or a rally racer breaks down... (on the side of the road)... other teams sometimes stop and help..


why can't they in biking?


The original intent of the rule was a purist thing- they think that XC racing is more pure if you finish with only what you had when you started, and with no outside help. I think most of the XC crowd thinks it is a lame rule, but that's not really the point. The main question is- does Green deserve to have kept this win in this situation? I think so, and from what I gathered the rest of the riders in the same race agreed. And their not protesting his win was their way of protesting this rule.
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Old 01-11-03, 11:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeOK


True, and I wonder why he didn't have one, but... If the guy had done this intentionally to win the race that would make a huge difference. Green had an obvious disadvantage with his mechanical, and still came back to smash the competition. I remember on OLN when they interviewed a couple of the other riders about this, they pretty much agreed with what I have said here. The guy is just a super-human and the rule is silly.
Yup, Roland is simply amazing. He is most always the class of the field. Also, there is no doubt that he was the best rider that day. However, race rules are race rules. I don't think that you can put a qualification that rules only count when they have a material effect on the outcome of the race. However, I do hear what you are saying, and can understand your point. It's a silly rule.

My bet is that he is now packing @ least an allen wrench. Does anyone know???
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Old 01-11-03, 11:33 AM   #9
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Originally posted by MikeOK
What do you think?



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Old 01-13-03, 11:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by bac


Well, my thoughts are that Roland made a choice not to carry any tools with him - thus giving him a very slight weight and bulk advantage over the competition that did pack tools. To then borrow a tool from another rider is simply not fair to the other riders sporting tools. So, I do think that the rule is just.

The obvious way not to get burned by this rule is to carry a multi-tool with you. If you chose to risk it - let the cards fall where they may. Roland knew the rules going into the race, and chose to take a calculated risk. So, either change the rules, or play by the rules.
i agree. maybe a stupid rule, but rules are rules. do you want someone cutting the course you are on? no? so make everyone play the same way. no tool. too bad. roland cheated.
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Old 01-13-03, 11:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeOK


The original intent of the rule was a purist thing- they think that XC racing is more pure if you finish with only what you had when you started, and with no outside help. I think most of the XC crowd thinks it is a lame rule, but that's not really the point. The main question is- does Green deserve to have kept this win in this situation? I think so, and from what I gathered the rest of the riders in the same race agreed. And their not protesting his win was their way of protesting this rule.
im in that xc crowd and won a race on this principal. my closest competitor busted a link on the last lap, and fell back. he would have won if i gave him MY spare link, but I didnt. raceing and achieving any goal can be part talent and part preparation. i was the better prepared rider with my ride in optimal tune, with spare parts. he wasnt. i won fair and square for being the better prepared rider overall. you cannot separate the man and the machine.

like studying for a test. you may be smart, but look out for the kid taking notes at the front of the class. he may not be as "smart" as you, but he may just f up the grading curve.

roland needs to pack his bookbag with more "notes". he may be smart, but that day, he didnt get the best grade in my class.
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Old 01-14-03, 08:38 AM   #12
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The rule may or may not be stupid. Either way, he broke it and should not have won.

They did however follow procedure that states that protests must be filed w/in 15 mins of the end of the race. No protests were filed, so he should have won.

Why didn't anyone file a protest? Probably no one knew of the infraction. Until a month or so later when the race was aired on OLN. I'm sure if you asked some of the other Pro's today wheter they would have protested, you'll probably get some, "Absolutely!"

Should he and Ryder been disqualified? Yes, if someone had protested, but they didn't. So, they got away with it. Was the win bittersweet? Probably.

Personally, I think TREK should fine Roland and Ryder (Trek own Gary Fisher), and insist they follow ALL the rules in the future or be dismissed off the team.

Before I saw the OLN coverage, I respected both riders for their accomplishments. Now, they've lost a lot of my respect, so has Trek. I can't argue Roland was the strongest rider that day, but rules are there for a reason!

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Old 01-14-03, 12:54 PM   #13
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Personally, I think TREK should fine Roland and Ryder (Trek own Gary Fisher), and insist they follow ALL the rules in the future or be dismissed off the team.
Or better yet - capitalize on the issue. I can see the advertisement already? Roland now carries the Trek multi-tool on every ride - donít leave home without it!!!
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Old 01-14-03, 01:12 PM   #14
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Judge the act on its own merits, but judge Green by his career, not one brief moment from it.

All told, the guy is one heck of a rider and deserves credit for that.

I don't want to be judged by a weak moment in my life, nor can I expect to be judged by my greatest. Neither indicate the real me.
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Old 01-14-03, 01:26 PM   #15
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All told, the guy is one heck of a rider and deserves credit for that.

I don't want to be judged by a weak moment in my life, nor can I expect to be judged by my greatest. Neither indicate the real me.
Let me guess. Your real name is William Jefferson Clinton. Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.
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Old 01-14-03, 01:30 PM   #16
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I judge Roland by his statement after the incident where he stated he'd do it again!

Granted he is a great athlete, but to be exceptional, you must do what is right even off the bike!

If you would have graciously stepped off the podium and handed his medal back to the 2nd place finisher (Seamus McGrath I believe) then he would have earned my respect!

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Old 01-15-03, 08:24 AM   #17
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Cheater. Domestiques are not allowed in XC racing.

NORBA should have suspended him for the next race.

That he said he would have done it again was in very poor taste. Shame on you, Roland!

What's worse? He's the posterboy for XC racing. The best, anyway, if not the brightest.
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Old 01-15-03, 10:32 AM   #18
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I have an idea. let's just follow the rules that help us produce the race outcomes that we want.

yeah... that's it we'll just pick and choose. wait, better yet we'll just make a rule that states: X rider will always be the first place finisher
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