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  1. #26
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    The last post shows what the problem can be. Most people don't think they are too drunk to drive and that their driving is just fine even though I have it on tape how poorly they were driving. If you are under the influence of intoxicants whether that be .04 or .15 your driving abilities and fine motor skills are lessened although not as severely at .04 is it would be at .15. It really doesn't matter how much further they have to drive, they shouldn't be driving at all.
    Also, it doesn't matter how fast your metabolism is. Alcohol is burned at a constant rate by everyone and that is .015% per hour. It doesn't matter if you are drinking ocoffee or taking a cold shower.

  2. #27
    Team Katana 古強者死神's Avatar
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    Yeah I know all that, Must have learned it 100x over again via personal trainer training and in the military.

    But thats why I belive in road side sobrity (spelling) test. I have sutch a high amout of control over my body in all situations gained thru training im not the average joe.

    I can drink all day, and nobody not one person around me would know I was drinking it does not affect my behavior or motor skills. I can have many people attest to that as the truth. It just alters the way the mind perceives things, when you learn how to have control over that effect. I have been to martial arts practice after drinking, and on duty in the marines.

    I wont try to convince you what I say is true, as a officer you know undoubtedly 99% of the time when sombody says one thing its not the truth, and you and I both know how drunk people swear up and down they are totally fine and can drive ect ect.

    Once you learn control of your mind in all situations thru meditation and years of practice you will understand. Hot is not hot, cold is not cold. when your sleepy you dont have to sleep. I have full control over my body, mind, and nerves.

  3. #28
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    Uh, OK

  4. #29
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    Why canít a DUI for bicycle be a separate offence? Are motorized vehicles and bicycles not intrinsically different? The law is already significantly different between the two: one requires a license to operate and one does not.

  5. #30
    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    As a taxi driver I was taking a customer home from a local tavern one night and on the way a VERY drunk guy was cycling home from the same tavern and he was wobbling all over the place. I had to slow down and avoid him and I was concerned that someone was going to collect him. Sure enough on the way back there he was sprawled over the road infront of a car. He wasn't seriously hurt that time but he could have been.

    So who's fault would it have been if he was and would it have been fair on the poor motorist who hit him.

    Regards, Anthony

  6. #31
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Katana, I'm pretty sure that ninja skills like yours are still no match for a sixer of Coors.

    ...or even coors light.

  7. #32
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    Nobody gets pulled over for OMVI. That's what my sister used to tell me. You are always doing something else wrong that gets you pulled over and when the cop is listening to you, smelling you, looking at the empties rolling around on the passenger seat, that's when he suspects an OMVI. So the trick is don't do anything wrong. Come to complete stops at stop signs, signal all turns, stay in your lane, drive smoothly at or below the speed limit; all the things that most of you don't do sober.

    So you've had two drinks at dinner and you would like to get home without the risk of being tested for OMVI. You now have to drive in a manner that you have absolutely no familiarity with at all. It won't work. What you need to do is practice perfect driving, no errors, no rolling stops, no missed signals, for weeks and weeks and months and months. Do it until you don't even think about it; it's automatic. Then and only then, can you risk going home with two drinks swishing around your last meal. And if you've had a few more drinks this whole scheme won't work either because you won't be perfect and you won't realize it. This only works when you're well below the limit.

    Or you can try that who mind-over-body-zen-control system that what's-his-name advocates and see how far that program gets you. Do all your practicing in the backyard.

  8. #33
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 古強者死神
    Snip: Friendly Tip: this is if your on the road, if your offroad or on the sidewalk your not a vehicle your a ped and you cant get busted for that!
    Bollocks,
    My friend was convicted of DUI while riding home on the sidewalk after a party.
    Don't spew legalese unless you have documentation to back it up.
    Anything can happen in a court room.

    Enjoy

  9. #34
    Senior Member Cavedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 古強者死神
    Yeah I know all that, Must have learned it 100x over again via personal trainer training and in the military.

    But thats why I belive in road side sobrity (spelling) test. I have sutch a high amout of control over my body in all situations gained thru training im not the average joe.

    I can drink all day, and nobody not one person around me would know I was drinking it does not affect my behavior or motor skills. I can have many people attest to that as the truth. It just alters the way the mind perceives things, when you learn how to have control over that effect. I have been to martial arts practice after drinking, and on duty in the marines.

    I wont try to convince you what I say is true, as a officer you know undoubtedly 99% of the time when sombody says one thing its not the truth, and you and I both know how drunk people swear up and down they are totally fine and can drive ect ect.

    Once you learn control of your mind in all situations thru meditation and years of practice you will understand. Hot is not hot, cold is not cold. when your sleepy you dont have to sleep. I have full control over my body, mind, and nerves.

    You should have stayed in the Marines. You are perfect for them.
    Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.

  10. #35
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    Now, now, don't insult the Marines.

  11. #36
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentinel4675
    Never heard of walking as a DUI anywhere. PI, yes, DUI, no. It's funny looking at some who don't want the DUI laws to apply to them on a bike. One moment they want the respect of other drivers and use of the road as any other vehicle, the next they don't want to be subject to many of the same laws vehicles are subject to.

    Walking the bike often falls under "intent to operate", so in a state where merely intent is as bad as the actual act of DUI, you can still get hit up as if you were actually riding.
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  12. #37
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmcl
    Why can’t a DUI for bicycle be a separate offence? Are motorized vehicles and bicycles not intrinsically different? The law is already significantly different between the two: one requires a license to operate and one does not.

    That's just one difference. Bottom line is a bike is a vehicle, thus falls under the same legal rights and responsibilities.

    Motor vehicles require a license, since it's a complex machine, that has very severe consequences not only to the operator if he/she screws up, but to others as well. This is why a license is required.

    A bicycle in most cases will not kill non-operators.

    Plus, drivers think we should not be on the road already, so why add one more thing to their list, just because it makes things more convenient for a select few of us? I don't think any of us took up cycling out of convenience, since a car or moped is far more convenient.
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  13. #38
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    If what you say is true about walking a bike, I have never heard of it in Indiana. That arrest wouldn't be worth the time or the paperwork.

  14. #39
    Senior Member edp773's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc
    And if you stagger out of the bar to wander your way home you will be arrested for public drunkness...screwed no matter what method of transportation you choose

    Aaron
    I agree completely. In my little town I have seen people that have lost their license due to DUI arrest take bicycles, riding mowers, and even tractors to the bar. There has been DUIs written on each of these modes of transportation.

    The most notable instance was when a man was on his way home from the bar and bailed off his riding mower just before it ran into a moving train. T-shirts, made for our Labor Day celebration, depicting a hog driving a riding mower into a moving train sold out that year.

    Necessity is the mother of invention, if you consider alcohol a necessity.
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  15. #40
    Prairie Path Commuter
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    I am not saying that drunk bicycle riding should be legal or that it is not a public hazard/nuisance at some level but at which point does it become a hazard? Are you really impaired to operate a 12 mph bicycle at .08 blood alcohol level, the same limit it is to operate a car at 65 mph. The legal limit for motor vehicles used to be .10 and before that .12, would this be more reasonable for a bike? Do drunk bicyclists really deserve the same punitive penalties that drunk motorists get given that drunk bicycle riding does not pose the same public hazard? I just think some reason and common sense should be incorporated into the law to reflect the difference in public safety between the two. As far as road rights and responsibilities go when has this ever been the same for bicycles as it is for motor vehicles? Are bicycles not banned from most controlled access freeways and interstate highways? When have you ever needed liability insurance for a bike or there has been a minimum tread depth for a bicycle tire?

  16. #41
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    I think .08 is fine for bicyclists for one reason: center of balance.

    We are the force that keeps our bikes upright, while cars do not require us to balance them (just control the wheels/pedals)....so a bike does require more effort to operate safely.

    On the flipside, a car requires more attention to operate safely, due to the higher speeds the are operated at, as well as how the car mufles sounds from the outside, which could have served as aural cues of oncoming danger.

    Pretty much I rate both vehicles as being equally demanding overall to operate....just they require different levels of attention and effort to operate as intended.
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  17. #42
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 古強者死神
    . I have sutch a high amout of control over my body in all situations gained thru training im not the average joe.

    .

    I wont try to convince you what I say is true, you and I both know how drunk people swear up and down they are totally fine and can drive ect ect.

    Hot is not hot, cold is not cold. when your sleepy you dont have to sleep. .
    apparently doesn't affect your typing either

  18. #43
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    Police officers can enforce the laws, not write them. In Texas, a DWI conviction requires proof the person was operating a MOTOR vehicle on a public road. Bicycles are NOT a motor vehicle (unless you have installed and operate it with a motor). Driving a truck while drunk across your own land does not count. Got to be on a public road.

    And, if you look at the actual laws in your own states, I suspect that most states require the same thing: MOTOR vehicle.

    So, if you ride a bike drunk, if you are unlucky, you will ride in front of a drunk in a pickup truck, and get killed.

    If you ride a bike drunk, and you are lucky, a cop will see you and arrest you. But, he will have to charge you with PI or disorderly conduct, not DWI. Which means in two days, you can be out of jail and getting drunk again.

  19. #44
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    Police officers can enforce the laws, not write them. In Texas, a DWI conviction requires proof the person was operating a MOTOR vehicle on a public road. Bicycles are NOT a motor vehicle (unless you have installed and operate it with a motor). Driving a truck while drunk across your own land does not count. Got to be on a public road.
    And, if you look at the actual laws in your own states, I suspect that most states require the same thing: MOTOR vehicle.
    So, if you ride a bike drunk, if you are unlucky, you will ride in front of a drunk in a pickup truck, and get killed.
    If you ride a bike drunk, and you are lucky, a cop will see you and arrest you. But, he will have to charge you with PI or disorderly conduct, not DWI. Which means in two days, you can be out of jail and getting drunk again.
    You better look up your vehicular code before you go out drinking tonight.
    I believe Minnesota is the only state that currently allows BWI It was recently in the news as a national precedent.

    Enjoy

  20. #45
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    Police officers can enforce the laws, not write them. In Texas, a DWI conviction requires proof the person was operating a MOTOR vehicle on a public road. Bicycles are NOT a motor vehicle (unless you have installed and operate it with a motor). Driving a truck while drunk across your own land does not count. Got to be on a public road.

    And, if you look at the actual laws in your own states, I suspect that most states require the same thing: MOTOR vehicle.

    So, if you ride a bike drunk, if you are unlucky, you will ride in front of a drunk in a pickup truck, and get killed.

    If you ride a bike drunk, and you are lucky, a cop will see you and arrest you. But, he will have to charge you with PI or disorderly conduct, not DWI. Which means in two days, you can be out of jail and getting drunk again.
    I think your suspicion is wrong. I know for a fact Florida DUI laws apply to bikes:

    Fla. Stat. &#167; 316.193 (2006)

    &#167; 316.193. Driving under the influence; penalties


    (1) A person is guilty of the offense of driving under the influence and is subject to punishment as provided in subsection (2) if the person is driving or in actual physical control of a vehicle within this state and:

    (a) The person is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that the person's normal faculties are impaired;

    (b) The person has a blood-alcohol level of 0.08 or more grams of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood; or

    (c) The person has a breath-alcohol level of 0.08 or more grams of alcohol per 210 liters of breath.


    Fla. Stat. ch. 316.193 applies to a person operating a bicycle while under the influence. State v. Howard, 510 So. 2d 612, 1987 Fla. App. LEXIS 9009, 12 Fla. L. Weekly 1540 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 3d Dist. 1987), review denied by 520 So. 2d 584, 1988 Fla. LEXIS 106 (Fla. 1988).


    I'm pretty sure if one were to take the time to research it you would find Florida to be in a wide majority on this issue

    See also: State v. Vest, 1986 Ohio App. LEXIS 8518 (bicycle is a vehicle for the purpose of Ohio DWI statute).

    California Vehicle Code 21200: (a) Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, .... Mullins v. Tuccinardi, Inc., 1993 Conn. Super. LEXIS 1620 (holding Connecticut DUI satute applies to bikes.)
    Delaware: 21 Del.C. 4177: Operation of vehicle while under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs; penalties.

    (a) No person shall drive, operate or have in actual physical control a vehicle, an off-highway vehicle, a moped or a bicycle while under the influence of alcohol or of any drug or any combination of drugs and/or alcohol.

    These are just the ones I could find quick. (Man why do I waste my time doing research like this, when I could be doing the actual legal work I'm paid to do?)
    Last edited by merlinextraligh; 05-25-06 at 03:42 PM.

  21. #46
    Team Katana 古強者死神's Avatar
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    Haha, I dont expect you guys to understand somthing you dont know. Its like asking you what heaven is like. You have to know just from science that there is alot of your brain you cant use, and surly you have seen the monks in hisotry set themselves on fire and just sit there as a protest. Pick any person in public and set them on fire (i dont recomend this) and they will scream and flail around. But once you have the mental discipline you can block out those feelings of pain as all feelings are universal you just have a diffrent natural reaction to them.

    The monks are a good example of this, as some of them practiced the same stuff I learned and its somthing I can actually prove to you and its well documented in videos and history books.

    But we are getting off topic and stop trying to take cheap shots at me due to typing errors or somthing, that has nothing to do with my martial arts or the DUI subject, hell on my forums "spelling police" as we call them get a warning then after that a temp ban because all it does is promote grief on the forums.

    Katana, I'm pretty sure that ninja skills like yours are still no match for a sixer of Coors.

    ...or even coors light.
    So when you bringing over the beer ^^ I prefer liquor tho.


    You should have stayed in the Marines. You are perfect for them.
    I fully agree with you, it was a perfect place for me. But I didnt leave by choice I got medical seperation I am now a disabled veteran. The whole reason I am now biking is due to the fact I cant comfortably run anymore.

    Bollocks,
    My friend was convicted of DUI while riding home on the sidewalk after a party.
    Don't spew legalese unless you have documentation to back it up.
    Anything can happen in a court room.

    Enjoy
    It was an officer that said this, surly not all officers know the full laws thats more or less where a lawyer steps in with extensive teachings.

    Maybe where I live is diffrent than where you live? Just because your friend got convicted doesnt mean a thing. Lots of people get charged with things that they would have the law on there side but they dont know there rights. I had to represent myself once in court for a speeding ticket I got, I had the florida state statues printed out that showed myself not guilty and it was tossed out even with the cop present that gave me the ticket.

    So as of now I think I have more proof on the subject than you do, we also have an officer in this conversation so maybe he can give further feedback.

    I also add, that I have two police officers that regularly come hang out with me at work. I will ask them this question and get a 2nd officers opinion on what the law dictates. Jim has been in the service for over 15 years he should have a very good knowledge of the law. The other officer has been in over 20 years and even showed me pictures of where he pulled over bikes with no light and busted them for carring a *** and crack (wich leads me to think he knows all the bicycle laws as he is nutorious for getting unusual bust on bikes) I can call him and ask as I even have his phone number and he gives law advice all the time.

    I will get back to you with feedback from both.
    Last edited by 古強者死神; 05-26-06 at 01:13 AM.

  22. #47
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    I doubt your ability to handle alcohol. Why?

    If you want to see people who can "handle" alcohol, look at your favorite Alcoholics Anonymous. Martial arts training and all the basic in the world does not substitute for what these people do: alcohol training. Drinking, lots of it, all the time. And if you talk to anyone who has been in that program for 10+ years, they can tell you how many of their new members come: DUI/OMVI/whatever. They've been drinking like crazy for years and years, driving at the same time and it's only after several years that they get into accidents. Nobody can tell they're drunk because their speech doesn't slur or whatever particular little unconclusive test you want to use. But when you take them out and actually test them, they flunk terribly.

    Your brain can compensate for a lot of things. Speech is a pretty common one, and after a lot of practice, you can even get rid of a lot of the winding motion. But none of that helps the one basic trait that causes most accidents: reaction time. Your brain can't draw any patterns on this, and there isn't any way your brain can predict these events so you're just impaired. And that's what it comes down to.

    I don't doubt you can hide most of the common signs. I've seen a lot of people who can do the same. But that comes down to your brain more then anything else. Just like I've seen people who can adapt their voice to overcome distortion in mic systems. But just like such a person can not instantly adapt to an unknown, your brain can not react in the same amount of time. It's a physical property and anyone who has taken much biochemistry can tell you.

  23. #48
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    And looking into this law subject, just a brief look at Texas law does indeed seem to mean a DUI really only applies to a motor vehicle, but more so anything you need a license to operate. However, just looking at your chapter 551, under section 103 subchapter B, it states:

    ß 551.101. RIGHTS AND DUTIES.

    (a) A person operating a bicycle has the rights and duties applicable to a driver operating a
    vehicle under this subtitle, unless:
    (1) a provision of this chapter alters a right or duty;
    or
    (2) a right or duty applicable to a driver operating a vehicle cannot by its nature apply to a person operating a bicycle.

    (b) A parent of a child or a guardian of a ward may not knowingly permit the child or ward to violate this subtitle.


    Reformated slightly because the legal documents are scanned in a strange way. Now I'm no lawyer, but it would seem that neither of those exceptions apply to a bike. So I'd say that this is probably indeed a case of "anything can happen in court."

  24. #49
    Team Katana 古強者死神's Avatar
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    alcohol training. Drinking, lots of it, all the time
    Its called the marines buddy ^^ and before that I was a bartender. Not a night I worked that I didnt down 10 shots of jager and 2 pitchers of beer.

    But I dont think drinking all the time really built up my tolerance it was always natural to me, maybe genetic since I do have a history of alcholism in my family, I myself dont have it tho.

    I had a drink with dinner tonight and havnt had a drink before than since maybe 3 weeks ago. I cut down because the cost and also because it dehydrates the crap out of you.

    Im still waiting for Jim to come in for dinner and I can ask him about the florida law on DUI for a bicycle off the roadways. I think he must have the weekend off or is busy on the streets.

    And I do agree with you jerry, the speech, balance, and motion parts of it are easy to overcome. The reaction time is a phisical limit not a mental one. I cant say I have bad reaction time but its definitly not as good when drinking as when sober, but its not a huge imparment driving does not require near the same reflexes as say dodging a punch or kick. Its slow down when you see a red light or brake lights, turn on a blinker before you get to a turn. Driving is so easy, just be aware of your surroundings and look out for potential hazzards and bad drivers. The only time you ever need fast reflexes in during sudden accidents like sombody stops very quickly infront of you, but if you know your reaction time is impaired dont follow so close to sombody and even still the 1/10 of a second slower you may be really wont affect anything if you ask me.

    Point blank, if you drink and drive be prepared to do the time and take the punishment for it, even if you are one of the people with a very high alchohol tolerance.

    I do think the BAC level that designates a DUI is rather low tho, and that a road side test for balance, awarness, and reaction time should be used more than a direct corilation of BAC.
    Last edited by 古強者死神; 05-27-06 at 03:45 AM.

  25. #50
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    Most drunks I have encountered think they can handle all driving situations but really count. The amount of drinking you describe makes it sound like a functioning alcoholic. Whether you want to believe it or not, driving is a multi-tasked event. Alcohol makes multitasking very hard to do.

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