Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-31-06, 05:55 AM   #51
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machka
But I have broken down the leather and sunk into the saddle. My saddle has very distinct (and somewhat lopsided - apparently I'm not symmetrical) butt grooves. That's what makes it so comfortable!!
You have broken IN your Brooks - you have NOT broken DOWN your Brooks. There's a difference. The Brooks (as we all agree) is supposed to allow indentation from your sit bones. What happens when a heavier rider uses the Brooks, though, is that the indentation becomes excessive, the saddle "hammocks" in the center, springing out the side flaps, and the heavier rider's perineum is left in direct contact with the hard center ridge of the saddle.

At what weight/mileage this happens depends on the weight of the rider. Brooks, unfortunately, does not formally recognize this phenomenon, and (negligently, in my opinion) does not specify a "maximum recommended rider weight" for their saddles. While Brooks saddles may work fine for riders of less than a certain weight, the saddles are manifestly unsuitable for riders beyond that weight. What that magic number might be, I don't know - Brooks doesn't say. I can say from experience that Brooks saddles were NOT suitable for me at 275#.

To summarize - Brooks saddles may be fine for lighter riders, but there is a maximum weight (unknown) above which the Brooks should not be used. The blanket statement by the poster who said that Brooks saddles are the panacea for all perineal pain isn't always true. Even for riders who are within the design weight for Brooks saddles, the fact that the saddles are designed to allow sit bone indentation means that (at least some) of those riders will find perineal pressure with Brooks saddles.

If the Brooks works for Machka & Jur (and hunderds of others), fine. Just don't tell me that Brooks works for everybody - it just isn't so.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 06:24 AM   #52
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
This just isn't so unless you're able to sit on the rear support bar. Most folks don't do that because it isn't comfortable (even with a Brooks). That means that most folks sit on the "hammock" of the saddle WITH their perineum in contact with the centerline "ridge" of leather.
I do straddle the 'hammock' portion of the saddle. On the B17, this is downright comfy, but on my Team Pro you can feel a bit more pressure on the perineum. I think the holes in the B17, combined with the wider frame, give it a little more 'give' in that area - testing them side by side confirmed this for me.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 06:28 AM   #53
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
...and WELL within the design parameters for the Brooks. You can use that Brooks without breaking down the leather (and sinking in so that the perineum contacts the saddle horn).

For the "UberClyde" set, though, Brooks products are probably a mistake - they certainly were for me. Within a month of mounting my Brooks B17, the leather had pancaked and the flaps were sprung out. I'm currently 275# (down from 300), and have tried three Brooks saddles - the B17, B69, & B72. None were appropriate, and all showed irreversable deformation in less than a month.
So 275 is your UberClyde criteria? I just ask because at 235 I don't get noticable deformation in any of my Brooks, just very shallow dimples.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 06:31 AM   #54
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machka
But I have broken down the leather and sunk into the saddle. My saddle has very distinct (and somewhat lopsided - apparently I'm not symmetrical) butt grooves. That's what makes it so comfortable!!
Now this is interesting. You and my 110lb GF both make bigger dents in your Brooks than I do at 235!
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 05:49 PM   #55
Banzai
Jet Jockey
Thread Starter
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike.
Posts: 4,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Lucky me I'm only 150.

Mr. Laine has answered just about all of my questions regarding technical data, and you guys have been great as far as first hand experience.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Banzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 06:21 PM   #56
AfterThisNap
Taking "s" outta "Fast"
 
AfterThisNap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zoo York City
Bikes:
Posts: 1,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
any skinny assed riders using a B17?

I just tried to order a honey Team Pro from Quality, but they only have honey in a copper railed version. The ti was almost half a pound lighter (not usually a gram counter, but that's considerable) and it was black.
I ended up getting the honey B17 special with ti rails, but now I'm second guessing that the width may be too much.
I wanted the team pro because it was listed a wider than the swift, but still narrower than the B17. I'm used to riding sell italia flites, is the B17 going to be too much?
AfterThisNap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 06:52 PM   #57
Bikepacker67
Banned
 
Bikepacker67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogopogo's shoreline
Bikes: LHT, Kona Smoke
Posts: 4,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
To summarize - Brooks saddles may be fine for lighter riders, but there is a maximum weight (unknown) above which the Brooks should not be used.
I'm 6'3" and 230ish, and you'd have to pry my B17 from my cold dead a$$.
Bikepacker67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 07:54 PM   #58
chicbicyclist
Senior Member
 
chicbicyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Bikes: Batavus Old Dutch
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Umm, I'm skinny and I use a wider B66....
chicbicyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 08:11 PM   #59
Machka 
Long Distance Cyclist
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: I ride where the thylacine roamed!
Bikes: Lots
Posts: 46,229
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
Now this is interesting. You and my 110lb GF both make bigger dents in your Brooks than I do at 235!

We have less padded, pointier sitbones!!
Machka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-06, 08:31 PM   #60
Banzai
Jet Jockey
Thread Starter
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike.
Posts: 4,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machka
We have less padded, pointier sitbones!!
Hmmm...no offense or harrassment meant, but typically one of the most pleasing attributes about the female of our species is much more padded, um, sitbones.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Banzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 02:38 PM   #61
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
So 275 is your UberClyde criteria? I just ask because at 235 I don't get noticable deformation in any of my Brooks, just very shallow dimples.
Hi chipcom!

I don't know what the "breaking point" is for Brooks saddles - I only know that I exceed it at 275-pounds! I've broken down a B-17 and a B-69. I was in the process of destroying a B-72 when I realized that the saddles just weren't OK for me.

Since your Brooks works well for you at 235, it's reasonable to assume that the elastic limit of the saddle lies between 235 and 275 pounds. Where, I don't know, and Brooks doesn't say. There's absolutely no question, though, that there IS a limit.
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 03:08 PM   #62
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
What is this?



Came from (late?) very nice 1970s Swiss or French road bike I rode all the time in jr.high-high school.

Al
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 03:22 PM   #63
neaolin
Senior Member
 
neaolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I love my Brooks.

It hurts so bad at first, but feels so good once broken in.
neaolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 04:14 PM   #64
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by banzai_f16
Lucky me I'm only 150.

Mr. Laine has answered just about all of my questions regarding technical data, and you guys have been great as far as first hand experience.
That Bill really is a great guy, ain't he?
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 05:19 PM   #65
atman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not that I know from anything but my B-17 (with its 150 miles), but shouldn't Far Horizon be considering the Team Professional saddle? It's my understanding that it's a thicker, tougher leather. Then again, it sounds like he's found a saddle he's happy with, which is, after all, the point.
atman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 05:29 PM   #66
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Posts: 24,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by atman
Not that I know from anything but my B-17 (with its 150 miles), but shouldn't Far Horizon be considering the Team Professional saddle? It's my understanding that it's a thicker, tougher leather. Then again, it sounds like he's found a saddle he's happy with, which is, after all, the point.
The thicker-tougher leather on a Team Pro is a myth. Same leather, same thickness. I believe it's the smaller frame and lack of holes that make it 'seem' tougher.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-06, 06:51 PM   #67
atman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipcom
The thicker-tougher leather on a Team Pro is a myth. Same leather, same thickness. I believe it's the smaller frame and lack of holes that make it 'seem' tougher.
Ah, so! This is what the internet is good for. Thank's Chip!
atman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-06, 12:08 AM   #68
AfterThisNap
Taking "s" outta "Fast"
 
AfterThisNap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zoo York City
Bikes:
Posts: 1,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
woah. B17 is too wide for my tastes. Check sig below.
AfterThisNap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-06, 10:42 AM   #69
Delta
Senior Member
 
Delta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Anywhere
Bikes: N/A
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well I'm a believer now. I just got my B-17 on Thursday and I took it out this morning for nice little 33 mile ride. I didn't find it to be as stiff as almost everyone mentioned. If it breaks in and gets softer that'll be a bonus. I wasn't aware that there was a weight limit for a Brooks saddle. I sure hope my 295# won't make it give out on me. Cuz I sure had a wonderful ride with it this morning.
Delta is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:39 AM.