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Old 06-30-06, 04:52 PM   #1
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Parents teaching their children bad habits.

I took a short 20 mile ride on the local MUP today. I noticed a lot of families, I guess they are getting an early start on the holiday weekend. It was nice to see parents out with their children, enjoying the nice summer day. But one thing I saw that was disturbing was the number of children without helmets. One child of the very few that were wearing helmets, had a helmet so large it was slipping down to the side of his head.

In Pennsylvania, all children under 12 must wear a helmet while riding a bicycle. IMHO, this age is set too low, it really should be 18. I would think a number of the children were indeed under 12. So not only were the parents being negligent, they were breaking the law.

Parents, please insist that your children wear properly fit helmets, no matter the law in your state (or country). It doesn't take much of a fall to permanently injure or kill your child. Lead by example and wear a helmet yourself.
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Old 06-30-06, 05:09 PM   #2
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I rode my whole childhood - in fact until I was about 30 - without a helmet, took plenty of spills, never had a serious head injury in all that time. I don't see any need for helmet laws, kids are too protected these days.
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Old 06-30-06, 05:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by randya
I rode my whole childhood - in fact until I was about 30 - without a helmet, took plenty of spills, never had a serious head injury in all that time. I don't see any need for helmet laws, kids are too protected these days.
Funny - I'm exactly the same way - fell many times, even slid the width of a road on my hip and elbow once (have the flat shaved bone to prove it ) but somehow I had the knowledge to keep my head off the ground.

Only problem is, I'd be kicking myself if my little one had something happen to her which could have been prevented by wearing a helmet. Guess what - I wear one now as does she.
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Old 06-30-06, 05:19 PM   #4
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I didn't start wearing a helmet till I was 30 (1 year ago).
Neither did anyone in my family (1 brother, mom, dad, 4 cousins, aunt, uncle, etc) and we are all still around.

It's their choice. Helmet laws are pointless IMHO.

I still think using a helmet is a good idea. I'm just not for our country's incessant desire to legislate EVERYTHING.
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Old 06-30-06, 05:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by randya
I rode my whole childhood - in fact until I was about 30 - without a helmet, took plenty of spills, never had a serious head injury in all that time. I don't see any need for helmet laws, kids are too protected these days.
So did I, and I rode my sled in the winter like a maniac. I also rode in a car as a youngster with inadequate or no child seats and later no seat belts. We know more now and have better technology. so why ignore it?

You were a helmet now why? You wear one but are you saying you would not require your child to wear one?

I agree that there are too many laws. I have libertarian leanings so I am not sure if I would like to see such a law for adults. But the law is not aimed at forcing the children to wear a helmet but to force parents to require children to wear one where they might wise enough to do otherwise.
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Old 06-30-06, 05:38 PM   #6
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It's their choice. Helmet laws are pointless IMHO.

I still think using a helmet is a good idea. I'm just not for our country's incessant desire to legislate EVERYTHING.
Adults should have a choice so I agree, no helmet laws for them. But children aren't adults, they need to look to their parents for guidance. And many parents are either ignorant of many dangers or just don't care. We had one man here that had visiting rights to his asthmatic son. The farther insisted on smoking in the house during the child's visit. After each visit, the child would have an attack. The mother actually had to go to court and get the judge to order that the father must smoke outside when the child was in the house.
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Old 06-30-06, 05:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randya
I rode my whole childhood - in fact until I was about 30 - without a helmet, took plenty of spills, never had a serious head injury in all that time. I don't see any need for helmet laws, kids are too protected these days.
Me either, but I do know someone that was in a coma for over 15 years after she hit her head on a curb while riding a bike. It was a low speed off balance thing, fell over sideways and hit her temple on the curb. Lost 15 years of her life and will need attend care for the remainder of it. Think about it, when you are sitting on a bike your head is 5'-6' in the air, if you get entangled and can't put a foot or hand out you will go down dead weight. The statistics of it happening are probably pretty low, but I think I am going to improve my odds a bit by wearing a helmet. As far as the children are concerned helmets are a good idea, because of the developing motor skills. And not all children devlop at the same pace. In today's overly competitive society some parents push their kids past reasonable limits, IMHO increasing the potential for injury. But an improperly adjusted or sized helmet is about as worthless as no helmet at all. My two always wore helmets and still do to this day. Both are in their 20's.

Aaron
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Old 06-30-06, 06:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by spinnaker
Adults should have a choice so I agree, no helmet laws for them. But children aren't adults, they need to look to their parents for guidance. And many parents are either ignorant of many dangers or just don't care. We had one man here that had visiting rights to his asthmatic son. The farther insisted on smoking in the house during the child's visit. After each visit, the child would have an attack. The mother actually had to go to court and get the judge to order that the father must smoke outside when the child was in the house.
General discussion turns into A&S.

Well, we can't legislate intelligence into the general population.
I offer no solutions. I've simply noted that cities with helmet laws still have a large number of helmetless kids. However, that may be an enforcement issue. It has made me question if the helmet laws have done much of any good. Any statistics on head trauma before and after helmet laws?

Incidentally, my son wears a helmet in his child trailer and will wear one on a bike. On his tricycle in the backyard I do not bother.
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Old 06-30-06, 07:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DataJunkie
General discussion turns into A&S.

Well, we can't legislate intelligence into the general population.
It is amazing isn't it? We can require people to have a license to drive a car, fly an airplane or practice medicine. But any two dolts can take on the most important job in the world, raising children, with the only requirement that they need to be capable of having sex.
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Old 06-30-06, 07:48 PM   #10
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The problem with people who choose not to wear helmets, is that when they crash many of them survive to become vegetables that the taxpayers have to pick up the tab for the rest of thier lives.
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Old 06-30-06, 10:55 PM   #11
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"Think about it, when you are sitting on a bike your head is 5'-6' in the air, if you get entangled and can't put a foot or hand out you will go down dead weight. The statistics of it happening are probably pretty low, but I think I am going to improve my odds a bit by wearing a helmet"
When we walk around our head is 5'-6' in the air also, perhaps we should always wear a helmet? Probably would be some benefit to wearing a helmet when we drive also. Most of us wear a helmet just to cover the remote chance that we will have a crash, wonder how long before it spreads to other activities? I'm old enough to remember playing baseball with out a batting helmet & I cycled thousands of miles without a helmet but time change, just have to decide how much risk we are willing to take. Don
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Old 06-30-06, 11:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DataJunkie
General discussion turns into A&S.

Well, we can't legislate intelligence into the general population.
I offer no solutions. I've simply noted that cities with helmet laws still have a large number of helmetless kids. However, that may be an enforcement issue. It has made me question if the helmet laws have done much of any good. Any statistics on head trauma before and after helmet laws?

Incidentally, my son wears a helmet in his child trailer and will wear one on a bike. On his tricycle in the backyard I do not bother.
There are studies and statistics... mostly from Australia. It showed that bike usage went way down, and head injuries went down a little bit. (Number of serious head injuries dropped far less than the number of bicyclists) .... the injury rates went UP.

This was with a VERY high rate of compliance with helmet laws.

I'd post links to the info, but it just doesn't matter.... I'll be flamed long after I grow bored and stop reading this thread.

I've been riding bikes for about 25 years.... I've only worn a helmet on VERY rare occasions, and then only when it was mandated. I've been involved with a ton of crashes, some pretty serious, many involving cars. I've never hit my head. Not once.

For the type of riding I do, and the type of accidents I'm most likely to be involved in, helmets would do little to nothing to help, therefore I don't wear one. (And no amount of flaming on an internet board is going to change that)

If you're interested in the links, PM me.
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Old 07-01-06, 12:10 AM   #13
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I still think using a helmet is a good idea. I'm just not for our country's incessant desire to legislate EVERYTHING.
+1. Damned nanny state!
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Old 07-01-06, 07:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ollo_ollo
When we walk around our head is 5'-6' in the air also, perhaps we should always wear a helmet? Probably would be some benefit to wearing a helmet when we drive also. Most of us wear a helmet just to cover the remote chance that we will have a crash, wonder how long before it spreads to other activities? I'm old enough to remember playing baseball with out a batting helmet & I cycled thousands of miles without a helmet but time change, just have to decide how much risk we are willing to take. Don
Please use the quote feature when quoting another post and not the " marks.

Many people Do wear helmets when walking. These people usually don't have full control over there motor activities. It is an evaluation of risk.
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Old 07-01-06, 07:42 AM   #15
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I've been riding bikes for about 25 years.... I've only worn a helmet on VERY rare occasions, and then only when it was mandated. I've been involved with a ton of crashes, some pretty serious, many involving cars. I've never hit my head. Not once.
[/QUOTE]

You have been lucky. And it is your choice not to wear a helmet. So would you impart the "because I have never needed one wisdom" on your own children?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807
For the type of riding I do, and the type of accidents I'm most likely to be involved in, helmets would do little to nothing to help, therefore I don't wear one. (And no amount of flaming on an internet board is going to change that)
What kind of riding are you doing? Falling at 80 MPH, a helmet MAY have limited value. But most bicycle riders are moving anywhere from 4-40 MPH. A fall at those speeds is going to hurt but you most likely will live, if wearing a helmet. About the only accident where a helmet would have limited value is a head on collision with a automobile or truck.

Sorry but the "it they don't work in all situations" reasoning just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The seat belt in my car will be of little use if I get hit by a train while driving the car but I still wear one.
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Old 07-01-06, 12:26 PM   #16
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How about this, no helmet laws save that anyone not wearing a helmet while riding is precluded from seeking any liability damages from any accident. In other words, if someone hits you and you get injured, you're on your own. There may be criminal consequences for the person who hit you, but you don't get to sue.
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Old 07-01-06, 12:31 PM   #17
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in texas, at least, parents can serve their children alcohol. Why can't they let them ride their bikes without helmets?

The incongruencies kill me. Like the people I have to card to buy super glue, but I can sell a tank of propane to a 6-year-old if he can carry it away.
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Old 07-01-06, 12:43 PM   #18
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I never rode with a helmet before when I was younger. Although, I never did ride on busy highways. It was subdivision riding and riding on paths with friends or to their houses. We used to make ramps and everything so I definitely fell quite a bit. Now that I am starting to ride on roads more often, I really desire a helmet. A car cruising by at 60 mph doesn't feel all that safe. I'm just getting into biking and I've done mostly path's and trail riding, but if I want to go further, I'll need to use roads more. So I suppose my opinion on the helmet issue is that it really depends on the environment that you ride in.
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Old 07-01-06, 01:24 PM   #19
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ive never owned a helmet, ever. i have experienced all manner of different bike wrecks, but my head has never been hit. thus, i dont see the rational of wearing a helmet. if anything, a protective cup would have been more helpfull. as far as kids are concerned, i couldn't care less what they are or are not required to do.
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Old 07-01-06, 02:54 PM   #20
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Eh.. I'm in the "I dont know.." crowd.

I did some pretty scary BMX riding when I was little (things I dont have the guts to do now..) and I never seriously injured myself. Unless the kids are riding around in a horribly busy area, most kids wont be going fast enough or be riding in dangerous enough areas to be exposed to high amounts of danger.

I didnt get a helmet until I thought cruising around in a city doing 20+ mph was fun. Now, thats dangerous, and that definitely requires a helmet.
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Old 07-01-06, 03:44 PM   #21
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I don't play the lottery every week just because I could win someday. I guess I should.
That would be the really super highly intelligent thing to do. Money means everything.
If you fear someone in a vegetative state what does that say about you as a person? What does an extra $10 or $20 mean to you a year
extra $50?
Not that big of a deal. I say raise taxes.
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Old 07-01-06, 03:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfspeed
How about this, no helmet laws save that anyone not wearing a helmet while riding is precluded from seeking any liability damages from any accident. In other words, if someone hits you and you get injured, you're on your own. There may be criminal consequences for the person who hit you, but you don't get to sue.
Wait I am sure the insurance companies are working on this one for motorcycle riders. The only thing that may be holding them back is liability. If a rider can prove he was injured because he was wearing a motorcycle helmet (which a limited number of injuries are actually caused by motorcycle helmets) then he would be able to sue them big time far beyond any medical costs.

The problem is that the tax payer would never be able to be relieved of medical costs caused by someone's own stupidity.
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Old 07-01-06, 04:12 PM   #23
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ive never owned a helmet, ever. i have experienced all manner of different bike wrecks, but my head has never been hit. thus, i dont see the rational of wearing a helmet.
You are making a lot of good sense.

I have never been in a car accident where a seat belt wold have made a difference. No need to wear uncomfortable seatbelts.

Maybe we should apply this to other areas we could save a lot of tax payer dollars.

Many fighter pilots fly their whole career without having to bail out. Why spend all those tax dollars on expensive emergency evacuation equipment?

Many police officers never draw their weapon in their whole career. No need for those pesky weapons.


I have never driven off of the road. Why put out all of those expensive guiderails?

Lifeboats on ships? They must be kidding, they are wasting their money.


Quote:
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as far as kids are concerned, i couldn't care less what they are or are not required to do.
Let me guess, you are a kindergarten school teacher?
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Old 07-01-06, 07:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by spinnaker
You are making a lot of good sense.

I have never been in a car accident where a seat belt wold have made a difference. No need to wear uncomfortable seatbelts.

Maybe we should apply this to other areas we could save a lot of tax payer dollars.

Many fighter pilots fly their whole career without having to bail out. Why spend all those tax dollars on expensive emergency evacuation equipment?

Many police officers never draw their weapon in their whole career. No need for those pesky weapons.


I have never driven off of the road. Why put out all of those expensive guiderails?

Lifeboats on ships? They must be kidding, they are wasting their money.




Let me guess, you are a kindergarten school teacher?

i see your point. i have been in some minor fender benders, so i can vouch for the utiltiy of seatbelts. also, i have driven off the road and i appreciate guardrails. thats not to say that i must see the usefulness of a safety device first-hand. however, im not familiar with fighter pilots or police officers, so its up to their chain of command if they wish to have ejection seats or side arms. if i were to be afraid of every potential risk that i could incur, however rare, i would have MIT build me an exoskeleton. its the same reason why you dont wear knee pads (i'm assuming that you don't wear knee pads).

kindergarted teacher? hardly. i make a conscious evert to stay child-free, as i can't stand kids.
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Old 07-01-06, 07:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by josh7337
i see your point. i have been in some minor fender benders, so i can vouch for the utiltiy of seatbelts. also, i have driven off the road and i appreciate guardrails. thats not to say that i must see the usefulness of a safety device first-hand. however, im not familiar with fighter pilots or police officers, so its up to their chain of command if they wish to have ejection seats or side arms. if i were to be afraid of every potential risk that i could incur, however rare, i would have MIT build me an exoskeleton. its the same reason why you dont wear knee pads (i'm assuming that you don't wear knee pads).

kindergarted teacher? hardly. i make a conscious evert to stay child-free, as i can't stand kids.
ok, i cant spell at the moment
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