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  1. #1
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    Dogs at bike races

    Doggies are lovely and grand and all, but sometimes.........

    Is it the dog's fault, or the owner? What kind of nitwit takes Master's Best Friend to a bike race and takes the leash off? Of course Poochie just wants to go out and chase ankles! That's what they were designed to do.

  2. #2
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Many dog owners have a selective mental blindness about this type of thing. By my folks' place, there's a big fenced field with signs at the gates saying NO DOG WALKING. It belongs to the school district and contains sports fields. And here's the dog owner squeezing her dogs through the gate and taking them off the leash to go spread Doggie Surprises for the soccer, softball and baseball players to discover later. It would be fascinating to ask her how she rationalizes this. "Oh, that doesn't apply to me."

    The other night my parents' cat (which I'm cat-sitting while they're gone) was out on the front porch and here comes a golden retriever, off-leash, coming onto their property after the cat. It's very lucky for that dog that I didn't quite get my hands on it, because angry 175-pound man versus 70-pound golden retriever = badly-injured dog with broken legs and possibly a broken spine. The dog's owner comes walking along... "oh sorry, he got away from me." Yeah of course he got away from you, that tends to happen when you take the leash off

  3. #3
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Owners fault...but they can increase your sprint speeds Years ago we used to do out and back time trials on county roads, we took into consideration the location of the dogs along the way and used those areas as dedicated sprint zones People in this country appear to be so selfcentered that they think that rules and regulations were made for "other people". I witnessed an incident at a grocery store in SC where this clown had his chiuaua in the buggy. He was trying to convince the store management it was a service dog. But didn't have any documentation to back it up. They finally had to call the police to have him removed from the store. In Germany it is normal for people to take their dogs places, but they are well behaved (the dogs) and the people understand that if the dog misbehaves they will be leaving, no if's and's or but's.

    Aaron

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    We have the same guard dog sprint zones, which is OK in training rides. But sometimes in a sanctioned race, it's a bit of a surprize when Precious Peachy shows up in front the guy in front of you. Or they're still on their leash, but the leash gets handed to the five year old to hold while papa lights his smoke.

  5. #5
    Flatland hack Flak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon
    I didn't quite get my hands on it, because angry 175-pound man versus 70-pound golden retriever = badly-injured dog with broken legs and possibly a broken spine.
    You need help.

  6. #6
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Owners fault. Also if you are marshaling it's your responcibility to make sure owner puts a dog on a leash. At SF Prologue some guy was walking with a dog off the leash. When I asked him to put it on a leash his reply: "Oh he doesn't chase after cyclists." Yeah, right up untill first cyclist blasts up that hill. I insisted he put it on a leash saying it a policy.
    I see hills.... Bring them on!!!
    Stay calm and bring a towel.

  7. #7
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    Mech is right. He was responsible for the care and well being of the cat when the dog came after it on private property. I see nothing wrong with defending the cat.

    If the owner were concerned about the dog, it would have been on a leash.

    I see it as reasonably close to the same scenario as a dog coming after one of my kids or my wife in my yard. Badly injured or dead dog, police report and a law suit, legal or civil, maybe both if the dog hurts somebody.

    The dogs I see in this area are restrained, either tied, or fenced, or they're so laid back they don't care about a cyclist on the road. A pair of pit bulls live a few miles down the road from me, in a fenced yard with the gates wide open. When I see them, they're usually asleep in the yard or out by the road. Sometimes one will raise his head and look at me as I ride by.

    I had some other dogs, large mutts, that lived just down my street and they would chase when they weren't tied (rare), but they've moved.

    I agree with Chromedome. A dog in a public place will always be leashed, if the owner is a responsible person.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Nermal's Avatar
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    What wahoonc said. Dogs can be trained, and in Germany, it is expected that they will be. I spent two years in Germany in the '60s, and never saw a dog misbehave - not even in restuarants.
    Some people are like a Slinky ... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flak
    You need help.
    Uh, no I don't. The dog came after me when I went to protect the cat. What do you think I'm going to do, stand there and sternly say "NO!" to it while being attacked by a stray dog on my property?

    Think about it. I hope you're not one of the ******* that lets his dog run loose.

  10. #10
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    I realize this is a bit of a different situation where I live, but any dog that comes on our property and near our "livestock" (goats, chickens, and guineas) is dead, it will die of lead poisoning. We have dogs of our own and they stay on our property. Ditto the cats. A sizable portion of the population in this country doesn't or won't take responsibility for anything, it cuts across the entire demographic of the population. I guess people don't teach that to their kids anymore, and I know they don't in the schools. They teach self esteem, but forgot the humilty and responsibility part. It pervades our entire society. Just look at the examples on local recreational sports fields, college sports, and pro sports. Nascar, NBA, NFL, AFL etc. This relates to pet control, personal control, driver control, ad nauseum. Not all people behave that way but enough do that we get the "well they do it, why shouldn't I" syndrome...somebody take my soapbox away...

    Aaron

  11. #11
    Flatland hack Flak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon
    The other night my parents' cat (which I'm cat-sitting while they're gone) was out on the front porch and here comes a golden retriever, off-leash, coming onto their property after the cat. It's very lucky for that dog that I didn't quite get my hands on it, because angry 175-pound man versus 70-pound golden retriever = badly-injured dog with broken legs and possibly a broken spine. The dog's owner comes walking along... "oh sorry, he got away from me." Yeah of course he got away from you, that tends to happen when you take the leash off
    Show me where you said in your first post that dog attacked you? From your post, you said the dog came "after the cat". Basically the dog was doing what dogs do, chasing the cat (ever seen a dog actually catch one? most times they have in intention of harm they just want to play), and you made an attempt to "get your hands on it", and if you did, you say you would have broken its legs and possibly its back.

    Don't want people thinking you're a spine busting lunatic? Be clearer next time.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flak
    Show me where you said in your first post that dog attacked you? From your post, you said the dog came "after the cat". Basically the dog was doing what dogs do, chasing the cat (ever seen a dog actually catch one? most times they have in intention of harm they just want to play), and you made an attempt to "get your hands on it", and if you did, you say you would have broken its legs and possibly its back.

    Don't want people thinking you're a spine busting lunatic? Be clearer next time.
    I had a friend, who I lost contact with, that had a German shepard/mutt. This dogs express purpose in chasing cats was to kill them. This guy's wife, who he has since divorced, long ago, did not deliberately train the dog to do this, but in reinforcing this behavior, that is effectively what she did. There is no reason to believe that a dog chasing any other animal, even another dog or person, has any intent other than to attack. A well trained dog does not chase unless given that command.

    Part of the problem is a lack of responsibility on the part of dog owners, but another part of the problem is that very few people are trained or understand how to train a dog to be under control off the leash.

    Personally, in MechBgon's situation, I would have introduced the dog, multiple times, to whatever weapon I had handy.

    Sometimes I think requiring people to be licensed to have a dog would be a good thing.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nermal's Avatar
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    Quite right, CommuterRun. I make the same pessimistic assumption about intentions about someone forcing his way into my home.
    Some people are like a Slinky ... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.

  14. #14
    Conservative Hippie
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    Good connection, Nermal. A guy breaking into my house may have only dropped by for coffee, icecream and conversation, but I find that highly unlikely.

  15. #15
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flak
    Show me where you said in your first post that dog attacked you? From your post, you said the dog came "after the cat". Basically the dog was doing what dogs do, chasing the cat (ever seen a dog actually catch one? most times they have in intention of harm they just want to play), and you made an attempt to "get your hands on it", and if you did, you say you would have broken its legs and possibly its back.

    Don't want people thinking you're a spine busting lunatic? Be clearer next time.
    If the dog had actually gotten hold of my parents' cat, then the transformation to "spine-busting lunatic" would have been complete for sure. It could just as easily have been one of my parents' grandkids out there on a different day.

    Don't get me wrong, if a sweet friendly stray golden retriever meanders up to me to be friends, I'll give it the sweetie-pie treatment, park it someplace safe, and call its owners.

  16. #16
    Senior Member ken cummings's Avatar
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    My three cats are not allowed outside to save their lives. That and stray cats in the neighborhood would give them expensive wounds. Dogs, off leash, are met with a slingshot and OO buckshot. My land is posted as a habitat preserve and all the neighbors have been warned. I am also growing poison oak (like poison ivy) for the deer and birds so neighbors keep their kids away too.
    This space open

  17. #17
    Flatland hack Flak's Avatar
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    Im all for defending myself or kids or pets from an aggressive dog. A swift kick in the right place will usually do the trick. But when you talk about breaking an animals spine, thats an extreme and unneccisary reaction to me.

  18. #18
    Resident Old Fart Olebiker's Avatar
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    I don't understand why dog owners want to bring their pets to fairs. I don't enjoy tripping over leashes and having my butt sniffed.
    Wag more, bark less

  19. #19
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    It is the complete responsibilty of a dog owner to restrain their animal appropriatly. That's why most places have leash laws. There in no excuse for not doing that. Humans are supposed to be smarter than dogs. This is not always the case. I like all kinds of dogs, I have seen so many stupid dog owners it's surprising. I hate stupid dog owners, they often put their own dog, my dog, myself, and others, at risk.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  20. #20
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flak
    Im all for defending myself or kids or pets from an aggressive dog. A swift kick in the right place will usually do the trick. But when you talk about breaking an animals spine, thats an extreme and unneccisary reaction to me.
    The faster it's down for good, the fewer chances it gets to injure me, or the kid across the street, or the little old lady strolling the sidewalk for exercise. Sorry, but when the law of the jungle is invoked, that's the way it goes. Dogs don't have to earn a living with working arms and legs.

  21. #21
    Flatland hack Flak's Avatar
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    Very cold outlook. Your black and white world must be nice for you. Im glad i dont know you.

    Im done here.

  22. #22
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    Yeah, I really like the butt-sniffing thing too. Like its the dogs business when the last time I did my business? But this is just natural, animals sniffing each other. But Fido at the fair is pretty annoying.

  23. #23
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flak
    Very cold outlook. Your black and white world must be nice for you. Im glad i dont know you.

    Im done here.
    Right. If you find yourself fighting against a fairly-large aggressive dog in near-complete darkness, you go right ahead and try for "just enough" force. Be my guest.

  24. #24
    Senior Member raverson's Avatar
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    No doubt about it, the owner should be put down!
    Last edited by raverson; 07-02-06 at 11:32 PM.

  25. #25
    Crankenstein bmclaughlin807's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flak
    (ever seen a dog actually catch one? most times they have in intention of harm they just want to play)
    Yes, I've seen them catch one. One of my cats was killed by a dog... My animals are part of my family, it hurt a lot to lose one, especially in that way.
    "There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson

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