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Old 07-11-06, 01:29 AM   #1
cyclezealot
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Effects of sun on our skin

I ride at least 12 hours a week. The sun here in Roussillon is intense. This last week I have started using oil of Olay sunscreen. Supposedly offers complete sun protection, while moisturizing your skin.
Before last week I used Bullfrog.
THe reason for the change. My arms /neck itch during after rides. Not necessarily where you can see any type of sunspot sores. Of course my worry has been melanoma.
WIth the use of the oil of Olay sunscreen and other skin moistureizers, my arms still itch.This problem has been since the sun became so intense a couple weeks ago.
What all do you do to protect your exposed skin and does it work. Or is shoe leather skin a natural result of riding.
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Old 07-11-06, 04:35 AM   #2
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Itching is usually an indication that you may be allergic to one or more of the ingredients...
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Old 07-11-06, 07:24 AM   #3
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I rarely use sunscreen and never while riding and don't have much of a tan despite riding about ten hours a week. The reason is that I ride after 7pm during the summer. The sun is very low in the sky and even though it is very flat and only has a few trees, I don't see the sun during my rides. But, if I were you, I would buy several brands of sunscreen, each with different ingredients to find one that doesn't cause itching. Also, the best way to be protected from the sun, is to simply avoid it.
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Old 07-11-06, 07:53 AM   #4
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So we suspect it is more than just dry skin.
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Old 07-11-06, 08:05 AM   #5
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I visit the dermatologist once/year. It gives me some extra piece of mind. In addition to checking you out for cancer dangers, a dermatologist can also diagnose the cause of itchy skin and suggest ways to combat it.
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Old 07-11-06, 08:11 AM   #6
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I grew up in a poor Kentucky farming family and learning to wear sunscreen was lower on the list of daily things to do than wax the Mercedes. I'm now in my 30's and have yet to show any adverse affects and farming all day gives me more sunlight exposure than most. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ignorant of the effects of UV light on unprotected skin, it's just not a habbit I learned when I was young so I do not practice it now, though I'm sure I will when my son gets to the age where he starts asking the question "why should I when daddy doesn't".
The itching does sound more like a reaction from the product though. If you are really concerned bout these things might I suggest getting the Coppertone brand of sunscreen made for children and babies. It has an SPF of up to 50 and contains very little chemicals as possible because as we all know, babies and children are more prone to alergic reactions from such things. You might also want to look into using Banana Boat "After The Sun" cream. It is almost pure Aloe and is a great moisturizer.
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Old 07-11-06, 08:27 AM   #7
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This is what I use, and I have very sensitive skin: Aveeno Continuous Protection Sunblock.

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Old 07-11-06, 08:32 AM   #8
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If you want to see the effects of Sun on human skin, go do a photo sampling of farmers over 60. Typical: sun dark spots, leathery skin, scars from basal cell cancer removal.

Your itching sounds like a sensitivity to some chemicals in sun lotion. Best practice:
1. don't use chemical sunscreens. They don't protect against both UVA and UVB. The most popular ingredient onlyi lasts 1 hr, and reapplying does not extend the protection. They take at least 30 minutes before protection is avaialble. They are associated with a 8x risk of cancer. [Think better with none than with chemical sunscreens, but no data on that] [FYI- value of physical blockers vs chemical screen risks has been confirmed by Dr and 2 pharmistis.]
2. use physical sunblocks: Ti Dioxide, or Zinc. TiDi is now microlized so you don't look like wearing a white mask.
3. easy to locate is neutrogena senstive skin SPF 30. [careful, other selections are chemical and not physical]
4. There are some SPF shirts/jerseys you can get which make cycling easier. Solumbra and Boure.
5. Effects of sun damage take about 20 years typically to start appearing, but that does not make them less real. It's kinda of like smoking. After many years of exposure, the cummulative effects of DNA damage start to show.
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Old 07-11-06, 08:37 AM   #9
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Recently sun-damaged skin can cause itching. A first degree burn can itch like crazy. A second degree burn will be really painful, I don't know about itching. That's not to say you may not be allergic to skin products - that could very well be the case.

If your skin is itching because it's burned, aloe vera gel will help it. You can buy it at any drugstore - usually it's a clear green gel. If it's allergic, topical steroid cream might help. But go to your dermatologist - no one can make a diagnosis on line.
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Old 07-11-06, 08:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_a_olson
This is what I use, and I have very sensitive skin: Aveeno Continuous Protection Sunblock
Active Ingredients
Avobenzone 3.0% ,
Homosalate 15.0% ,
Octisalate 5.0% ,
Octocrylene 2.4% ,
Oxybenzone 6.0%

See http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/medic.../sunblock.html for a short and good overview of sensitive skin sun protection.
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Old 07-11-06, 09:12 AM   #11
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General considerations about exposure to the sun........

Dangers are......
Fair skin of Scandinavian heritage,
Smoking
Long hours in the sun with little protection on uncovered skin (no broad brimmed hat,long sleeves
or worse yet shirtless)
Latitude at which you are (nearer the equator the more direct sun exposure)
Not getting a once over every year so your doctor can check for skin cancers

All the sun block goop in the world will not help if all of these apply to you. The only choice would
be to stay outta the sun.
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Old 07-11-06, 11:06 AM   #12
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The most popular ingredient onlyi lasts 1 hr, and reapplying does not extend the protection. They are associated with a 8x risk of cancer.
I find this very hard to believe. If I sat in the sun for two hours without sunscreen, I would be a tomato. I have worn sunscreen many times when I plan to be out in the sun(beach, boating, working in the yard) and have never burnt even when out for extended periods of time such as sailing ALL day where there is no escape from the sun. If my sunscreen ran out of protection at hour 1, I would be in some serious trouble by hour 10, 11, and 12.....

Your 8x increased risk is just plain silly. Correlation does not mean causation. Perhaps those who wear sunscreen spend more time in the sun and don't wear enough or the right kind or it gets washed off in the water or those who need a sunscreen are fairer to begin with thus putting them in a risk group. The same could be said for other risk groups such as latitude, heritage, altitude, etc.... who know they are more likely to burn from personal experience and thus more likely to us a sunscreen. People who sit in their house all day are NOT going to wear a sunscreen.


Also, your claim that traditional sunscreen don't block UVA and UVB is just plain false. Avobenzone for one blocks both.
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Old 07-11-06, 12:38 PM   #13
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I've spent a lifetime of dawn to dusk days in the Hawaiian sun--boats, bikes, surfboards, fishing, diving, work, etc, etc. I still try to get to the beach about 3 to 6 times a week, and sometimes work outdoors in shorts and boots. I have naturally fair skin but can tan fast and loose tan fast, and range from lightly tanned to "black" in any 4 month period. Never needed sun tan oil when I was a kid (sunscreen wasn't invented yet). In later years sun screen is something I always use even for a short couple of hours out on the water. I'm more sensitive to the sun now, and there are some areas on my ears and eyelids that are noticably more sensitive. Part of it might be the ozone layer, but age must be a factor. Even with a dark base tan I can still get lightly burnt after a full day in the sun without sunscreen. Many of my old surfing buddies have the same situation. Some of my caucasion sailing buddies have had to have melanomas removed and a few have had to give up sailing almost entirely.

When we were kids (60's, pre-sunscreen) there used to be an old caucasion lady that sunbathed daily at our surfspot. She had skin that had a similar texture to an alligator--no exageration. Decades later, although she is long gone, she is still remembered by many people for her skin. Sunscreen definitely helps to reduce premature and probably un-natural aging as well.




P.S. Nubie is correct, itching is a sign of being burnt. For me, sunscreen can totally alleviate this level of burning even after 8 hours out on the water in the sun, where the suns effects are highly intensified by the reflections.

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Old 07-11-06, 08:50 PM   #14
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Look for these, apparently they are the key ingredients for sun protection (reapply after swimming or sweating):
Avobenzone and Oxybenzone
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Old 07-12-06, 08:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
I find this very hard to believe. If I sat in the sun for two hours without sunscreen, I would be a tomato. I have worn sunscreen many times when I plan to be out in the sun(beach, boating, working in the yard) and have never burnt even when out for extended periods of time such as sailing ALL day where there is no escape from the sun. If my sunscreen ran out of protection at hour 1, I would be in some serious trouble by hour 10, 11, and 12.....
You're confusing sunburn protection with UV protection. It's the UV protection that fades after a hour with chemical sunscreens.
Here's onesupporting quote:
Quote:
However, avobenzone is a powerful free radical generator and also should have been banned. Avobenzone is easily absorbed through the epidermis and is still a chemical that absorbs ultraviolet radiation energy. Since it cannot destroy this energy, it has to convert the light energy into chemical energy, which is normally released as free radicals. While it blocks long-wave UVA, it does not effectively UVB or short-wave UVA radiation, and is usually combined with other sunscreen chemicals to produce a "broad-spectrum" product. In sunlight, avobenzone degrades and becomes ineffective within about 1 hour.
source is: http://www.skinbiology.com/toxicsunscreens.html


Quote:

Your 8x increased risk is just plain silly. Correlation does not mean causation. Perhaps those who wear sunscreen spend more time in the sun and don't wear enough or the right kind or it gets washed off in the water or those who need a sunscreen are fairer to begin with thus putting them in a risk group. The same could be said for other risk groups such as latitude, heritage, altitude, etc.... who know they are more likely to burn from personal experience and thus more likely to us a sunscreen. People who sit in their house all day are NOT going to wear a sunscreen.

Granted correlation does not equal causation, but there still is a higher incident rate of cancer with chemical sunscreen users. Other suggested causes are: 1. inadequate amounts of sunscreen, 2. prolonged exposure to sun because "safe" and 3. failure to reapply sunscreens after 2 hours, etc.

My bad on the 8x. I added male and female. [ 3.5 for male and 4.4 for female ] Correct factor seems to be between 1.2x and 3.5x. It depends on the source. The 3.5 times is increased melonoma, ie deep cancer. See reference with incident and death data.
http://vvv.com/healthnews/dsunscre.html


Quote:
Also, your claim that traditional sunscreen don't block UVA and UVB is just plain false. Avobenzone for one blocks both.
No, chemical sunscreens have at least 2 types to provide UVA and UVB blockage. See chart of protection in
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology...1/vculler.html

But if you read carefully, you will discover there are NO standard tests for UVB blockage so makers can make any claims they desire irregardless of scientific facts. If you googe on avobenzone, you will discover many references to it's beginning to break down after 1 hr. The worst part is reapplying does not restart the UV protection clock. For a graphic, see above reference by another poster to aveeno and it's comparison vs standard parsol.
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Old 07-13-06, 02:47 PM   #16
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But if you read carefully, you will discover there are NO standard tests for UVB blockage so makers can make any claims they desire irregardless of scientific facts.
Perhaps YOU need to start reading carefully. These drugs must be passed by the FDA, which I assure you does look at scientific studies and facts.


Quote:
You're confusing sunburn protection with UV protection. It's the UV protection that fades after a hour with chemical sunscreens.
The sunburn comes from the ultraviolet radiation. Light in the visible spectrum does not cause burns, unless you are talking about lasers or a really hot light bulb...
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Old 07-14-06, 02:16 AM   #17
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The thing about the itching. After a shower when all the sunscreen should be removed, itching will persist. Alergic reactions persist long term. I use my wife's oil of Olay . That should correct the dryness problem.
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Old 07-14-06, 08:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
Perhaps YOU need to start reading carefully. These drugs must be passed by the FDA, which I assure you does look at scientific studies and facts.
If the FDA is God, what is the FDA test for UVB protection that vendors have to pass to claim UVB protection and where is a description of the UVB standard?




Quote:
The sunburn comes from the ultraviolet radiation. Light in the visible spectrum does not cause burns, unless you are talking about lasers or a really hot light bulb...
Sunburn is caused by UVA. I am not concerned about sunburn per se. I am concerned about DNA damage and UV stimulating pre-cancerous or cancerous growths. Sunburn just hurts. Other damage can kill you early.
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Old 07-14-06, 09:46 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=Wikipedia]The higher the SPF, the more protection a sunscreen offers against UV-B ... and UV-A...

...The SPF can be measured by applying sunscreen to the skin of a volunteer and measuring how long it takes before sunburn occurs when exposed to an artificial sunlight source. In the US, such an in vivo test is required by the FDA.[/QUOTE
Also, Wikipedia notes that protection may be unequal between UVA (more associated with long-term effects) and UVB (wavelengths that cause sunburn). Read the article for a few more details.

Cyclezealot, for several years now (I first noticed it driving tractors all summer long), when I spend a long time in intense sunlight, I get almost a sort of rash on my hands, particularly the knuckles. I don't know if it might be similar to what you're experiencing or not. It's kind of itchy and there's a bunch of small hives in that area. I don't get dry skin problems though (at least not dry enough that I would notice. I don't pay much attention to my skin), and it goes away after a day or two. I've see no indications that there is any long term problem in my case.

I actually seldom wear sunscreen, and only on the neck, nose, and ears, and only PABA-free, because it appears I may be allergic to PABA. The rest of my exposed skin is a permanent farmers tan.

Oh yes...I should also mention as others have, sunburns usually itch, too.
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Old 07-14-06, 09:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlucky13
when I spend a long time in intense sunlight, I get almost a sort of rash on my hands, particularly the knuckles. I don't know if it might be similar to what you're experiencing or not. It's kind of itchy and there's a bunch of small hives in that area.
Sounds like you might be having a hypersensitivity (allergic) reaction to sunlight, possibly Solar Urticaria (urticaria = hives) or Polymorphous Light Eruption. An antihistamine may help solar urticaria, but it's notoriously difficult to treat. If it's PMLE, it usually goes away on its own, but can be pretty itchy and bumpy. I had this a few years ago when I went to Hawaii.

http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic448.htm

http://thedoctorsdoctor.com/diseases/pmle.htm
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Old 07-15-06, 12:55 PM   #21
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Interesting, thanks for the links. It sounds more like PMLE, although I started experiencing it younger than it states is typical, and it seldom lasts more than 2-3 days after the exposure. It doesn't seem to be anything serious, just a little annoying.
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Old 07-15-06, 04:31 PM   #22
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Weird. My wife is complaining some of itchy skin since Summer temperatures hit and it is somewhat more humid than we are used to. But, it seems more intense after out in the sun. I see no rash as Lucky suggests. Have had no major sunburn spots. Have to try the antihistamine. Do not some white spots in the area that itches. But, have had no peeling. thanks for the ideas/
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