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No pain No gain - Truth or fiction?

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No pain No gain - Truth or fiction?

Old 09-08-06, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuckie J.
There's a hill that I have to go up every time I get on the bike and it gets easier and easier. Sometimes I don't even sweat. Isn't this a good thing?
It is in my opinion. Obviously the speed-boy, bicycling-must-be-a-strenuous-workout-to-be-Real masochists have a different opinion.
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Old 09-08-06, 11:25 PM
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No Chain No Gain

pain or not, there is much to be gained from cycling

No Chain No Gain

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Old 09-08-06, 11:46 PM
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Like your sig line, trailwarrior.
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Old 09-09-06, 12:29 AM
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Pain is the microscopic tearing of muscle tissue through strenuous exercise. Where you benefit is during rest and recovery, where your muscles repair themselves in the form of scar tissue that mends the tears. The result is bigger, stronger, harder muscles that make women swoon, and where you are the complete envy of modern man, to be forever known as "that bike guy". (as if that can be achieved wearing lycra)

But to the original question, I'll relate to you what my cardiologist told me. "Any time you elevate your heart rate to anything other than couch potatoe status, you're doing good for yourself." "How much, depends on you!.......Too much, depends on god!"
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Old 09-09-06, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by trailwarrior
pain or not, there is much to be gained from cycling)
I agree, but feel the pain worshipers scare off many potential bikers from that gain with their conventional wisdom about the "proper way" to ride a bike (AKA "SERIOUS or REAL" cycling).
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Old 09-09-06, 08:52 AM
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IF IT IS SPEED, STRENGTH, ENDURANCE, AND ENDORPHINS THAT YOU ARE SEEKING; A SYSTEMATIC INCREASE IN MUSCULAR AND CARDIOVASCULAR STRESS MUST BE FOLLOWED BY SYSTEMATIC NUTRITION, AND REST/RECOVERY EPISODES.
SIGNIFICANT GAINS IN S.S.E.E. CAN BE MADE ONLY IF OUR SYSTEM IS ALLOWED TO RECOVER.
HIGH STRESS REQUIRES HIGH REST.
www.bicitreregioni.com
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Old 09-09-06, 02:24 PM
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Hey Newbie...your caps lock is on.
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Old 09-09-06, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
You're joking right? Even cycling at low intensity helps. People don't need to be cycling just to go at TimeTrial speed.
You're not gonna be going at time trial speed unless you really work at it either.
I think that was the original point was that you won't improve that much unless you really work at it.

Cycling at 50% of your heart rate at 15-16mph all day won't do anything if the goal is to go faster or climb better, etc.
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Old 09-09-06, 03:06 PM
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If your goal is to make a commute or a particular route easier it helps to push harder. As your fitness level increases your leasure rides will become easier. However, then you keep pushing and pushing and pushing. Finally you end up riding in the mountains to get an extra workout. Oh the pain!
If slow riding is your thing, more power to you.
If a constant hammerfest is your thing, more power to you.
Just don't be telling me what I can and can't do or how pointless it is. <--I said that to no one in particular
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Old 09-09-06, 03:55 PM
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A lot of things can raise your heartbeat a moderate amount and could actually be considered a "workout" ....gardening, light housework, raking leaves, walking around the block. I guess it depends on how much effort you want to put into it. Slow bike riding would probably fall into this category and is much better than being a couch potato.
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Old 09-10-06, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I agree, but feel the pain worshipers scare off many potential bikers from that gain with their conventional wisdom about the "proper way" to ride a bike (AKA "SERIOUS or REAL" cycling).
Do you have any studies to back up your "feelings"? Or, are you representing yourself as a (so-called) "expert" in this matter?

FWIW, I routinely see lots of cyclists when I'm out and about. Some are commuting to work. Some are riding the local river trail at 10 mph with their kids and a big grin on their face. Some are "training" in pacelines at 25 mph. All seem to be having fun in their own way, and most don't seem to resent the way that others choose to enjoy the sport.
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Old 09-10-06, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SSP
Do you have any studies to back up your "feelings"? Or, are you representing yourself as a (so-called) "expert" in this matter?

FWIW, I routinely see lots of cyclists when I'm out and about. Some are commuting to work. Some are riding the local river trail at 10 mph with their kids and a big grin on their face. Some are "training" in pacelines at 25 mph. All seem to be having fun in their own way, and most don't seem to resent the way that others choose to enjoy the sport.
Indeed. My "feeling" is that far more potential cyclists are intimidated by cars, dogs, hills and weather than by the small number of internet posters who don't see any other way of riding than intense exercise.
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Old 09-11-06, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by halfspeed
Indeed. My "feeling" is that far more are intimidated by cars, dogs, hills and weather than by the small number of internet posters who don't see any other way of riding than intense exercise.
I agree that the bicycling environment is the biggest intimidation factor. I doubt that many potential cyclists pay any attention at all to Internet discussion list posters, IMO, the counter productive (to bicycling advocacy) "intense exercise" attitude prevails in the North American milieu of the available bike publications/books, biking enthusiast clubs, and sales rap of the Bicycling Marketers and LBS outlets for their product.
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Old 09-11-06, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SSP
Do you have any studies to back up your "feelings"? Or, are you representing yourself as a (so-called) "expert" in this matter?

...
Some are "training" in pacelines at 25 mph. All seem to be having fun in their own way, and most don't seem to resent the way that others choose to enjoy the sport.
No one said that masochists don't enjoy their quest for more pain.

Apparantly giving an opinion that doesn't meet the conventional "roadie" wisdom calls for another smarmy smack down from SSP. Whatever.
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Old 09-11-06, 04:41 AM
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If all you want is more distance ("touring" cyclists often fall into this category), then just put on lots of miles.

If you want all-out speed, then there will be some degree of muscle soreness/pain involved, depending on what aspect of speed you are working on. I found the most painful excecises for running and cycling is sprint training. Of course when I used to run, the sprint training was 1/4mi full-bore, 5mins rest, 1/4mi full-bore, 5mins rest for 6 reps. My cycling sprint training follows that, but is 1/2mi, 10mins rest.

There IS a difference between pain and injury. They are different degrees of discomfort. Stiff legs, well that goes with the quest for speed. Actually I get rubber legs after a good session.

And yes, athletes get joint pains as time goes on, it's part of the price to pay.

However, even in a job, one might get joint pains....look at an assembler. They may get carpal tunner or some form of RSI from using a screwdriver all day long, and only that screwdriver. Same thing applies to someone that works long and hard on the bike.

Taking it easy does have it's benefits, and trust me, I do take it easy sometimes. It's nice to see life below 20mph sometimes
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Old 09-11-06, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I agree that the bicycling environment is the biggest intimidation factor. I doubt that many potential cyclists pay any attention at all to Internet discussion list posters, IMO, the counter productive (to bicycling advocacy) "intense exercise" attitude prevails in the North American milieu of the available bike publications/books, biking enthusiast clubs, and sales rap of the Bicycling Marketers and LBS outlets for their product.
Maybe it prevails because it sells bikes. Marketers generally are not in the business of flogging products in a manner that fails to move stuff off the sales floor.

People buy products based on the lifestyle image that is attached to that product. Often, they'll completely disregard whether that product is in any way appropriate for their intended use. In contemporary America, there's a lot more money to be made in "fast and aggressive" or "xtreme d00d" marketing than there is in affordable practicality.
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Old 09-11-06, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by halfspeed
Maybe it prevails because it sells bikes. Marketers generally are not in the business of flogging products in a manner that fails to move stuff off the sales floor.
Perhaps so. Bicycling advocates presumably have a different agenda: getting more people to consider riding a bike more often. Not necessarily the same thing as selling more bikes, more expensive bikes, and/or more bike accessories/clothing.

The marketers sold a zillion inappropriate (for the general public) uncomfortable, impractical ten-speed "racers" at all price ranges in the 70's to receptive adults and youth who became disgusted with bicyling after being sold a bill of goods.
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Old 09-11-06, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
No one said that masochists don't enjoy their quest for more pain.

Apparantly[sic] giving an opinion that doesn't meet the conventional "roadie" wisdom calls for another smarmy smack down from SSP. Whatever.
re: smarmy smack downs

If you'll look through this thread, you'll find yourself referring (smarmily) to cyclists who like to ride fast as "speed boys", "pain worshippers", and "masochists".

What goes around comes around, I-Like-to-Whine.

BTW - it's OK to go slow...just don't be so envious of those who like to go fast.

Last edited by SSP; 09-11-06 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 09-11-06, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Perhaps so. Bicycling advocates presumably have a different agenda: getting more people to consider riding a bike more often. Not necessarily the same thing as selling more bikes, more expensive bikes, and/or more bike accessories/clothing.

The marketers sold a zillion inappropriate (for the general public) uncomfortable, impractical ten-speed "racers" at all price ranges in the 70's to receptive adults and youth who became disgusted with bicyling after being sold a bill of goods.

I think as far as marketing to the masses(of mostly lazy people) the easier you make it seem the better. Most people don't enjoy exercise and the easier you make it seem the more they will like it. That's why folks gobble up diet pills and if there were an instant workout pill folks would probably pick that too.

I remember this infomercial for this product called the Trike which was supposed to be a combination of a scooter and inline skates. Well those bastards in the infomercial has huge smiles plastered on their faces as they tried to make this goofy product seem easy and fun. In real life the unlucky few I have seen on these look confused and irritated...probably thinking about those smiling bastards on TV.

To some people unless you have a big old smile plastered on your face and your waving to everyone you see like the guy in the erectile disfunction commercial, you must not be enjoying yourself.

An intense workout may not cause you to smile and wave incessantly but it sure is a lot of fun.
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Old 09-11-06, 08:18 AM
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Here's another way to look at it. No amount of riding at 13mph is ever going to suddenly have your average-speed jump to 15mph. You can ride 5000mi or 50,000mi @ 13mph and that's going to be as fast as you can go. You'll have trained your body to ride really well at 13mph forever. You can probably even ride 500miles non-stop @13mph, great.

But if you want to average 15mph, then you gotta put in the intervals @20mph every once in a while and do some sprints @30mph as well. Yah, it'll be a lot of suffering (not pain in my book), but it'll be worth it. Eventually with this type of training, your average will creep up surely.
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Old 09-11-06, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Denny Koll
I think as far as marketing to the masses(of mostly lazy people) the easier you make it seem the better. Most people don't enjoy exercise and the easier you make it seem the more they will like it.
Obviously you view cycling as all about exercise and workouts and only lazy people are not enamored of your vision of bicycling as another facet of calisthetics. Right in there with weight lifting and morning crunches. I don't share it; perhaps your pals in the group-think/bicycling club do.
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Old 09-11-06, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
But if you want to average 15mph, then you gotta put in the intervals @20mph every once in a while and do some sprints @30mph as well. Yah, it'll be a lot of suffering (not pain in my book), but it'll be worth it. Eventually with this type of training, your average will creep up surely.
If that 2mph increase is all that important in your book that its worth "a lot of suffering" than go for it. Doesn't sound in my book like a good promotion plan for promoting bicycling.
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Old 09-11-06, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Obviously you view cycling as all about exercise and workouts and only lazy people are not enamored of your vision of bicycling as another facet of calisthetics. Right in there with weight lifting and morning crunches. I don't share it; perhaps your pals in the group-think/bicycling club do.
I just think that by assuming that by upping the intensity level we make cycling "another facet of calisthenics" shows that you don't understand at all the pure joy of a high intensity workout. If you are happy settling for where you are...fine....but you don't knowhat you're missing. Sometimes taking the easy path diverts you from the road less travelled. And that makes all the difference.
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Old 09-11-06, 11:54 AM
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I thought I’d add my 2 cents.

The old philosophy was to do “cardio” i.e. get your heart rate up for at least 30 minutes 5 days a week. It’s been recently found that that does little for the cardiovascular system. The new wisdom is that you need to do vigorous exercise for maximum benefit.

That is nothing new athletes have been following this method for centuries.

To get maximum benefit from training you need to do a hard work out then allow for recovery. For most athletes that is two days a week of maximum effort with the days in between with light workouts (or off days). For the rest of us the day’s in-between hard days depend on our recovery ability, but 2 days of hard workouts can be done by most. Of course a hard workout is dependant on the person’s ability and shape. A hard work out for me is intervals for half an hour a pro cyclist it would be for several hours.

For cycling a hard workout is a long, hard day in the saddle or interval training.

Bill
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Old 09-11-06, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Obviously you view cycling as all about exercise and workouts and only lazy people are not enamored of your vision of bicycling as another facet of calisthetics. Right in there with weight lifting and morning crunches. I don't share it; perhaps your pals in the group-think/bicycling club do.
Well, it really comes down to what your goals are with cycling.

1. to cruise the beach and enjoy the scenery is fine and no training is needed, no suffering and no sweating necessary.

2. fitness-improvement as measured by RHR, body-fat%, VO2-max, lean muscle-mass, recovery-time, etc. will require some suffering and pushing your body to its max.

3. weight-loss goes hand-in-hand with fitness-improvement. You can ride a steady slow pace for a long time and burn off calories and lose weight. That just takes long time. If you couple it with sprints and intervals to improve your fitness, you can burn off even more calories/hr and lose weight faster, like 3-5x faster at 1.5-2 lb/week no problem.

4. commuting, unless your timecard starts and stops when you go through your home's front-door, commuting isn't paying. So you'd want to be fit enough to get the commuting done in a short time. This leaves more time for other fun things you can be doing like sports with your kids after work, chores around the house, night-classes, etc.
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