Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

What should I say ????

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

What should I say ????

Old 07-13-01, 04:26 AM
  #1  
Guitar Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What should I say ????

As some of you may already know, I work as a wrench in a bike shop..no big deal..but what I need opinions on, is every week without fail I have to ASK my boss(the owner)to pay me !!, If I say nothing,no money ....simple as that.. now.....I hate to have too ask him to freekin' pay me and when I do ask, It's normal to get a kind of pi$$ed off response off of him..this has been going on since I started (1 yr). Now I'm sick and tired of it, and It's really a drag....what should I say or do ..thanks in advance..... Buddy
__________________
Velosophy#1: It is better to have a bicycle and no money , than money and no bicycle ! Velosophy # 2 : "Winning is simple, but not easy." #3: "Give a man a fish and he shall eat for a day , teach him how to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"
Buddy Hayden is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 04:47 AM
  #2  
It's only a hill.
 
Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Berlin
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry Buddy can't help you there. The response "have you ever tried picking up your teeth with broken fingers?" would probably not work on this occassion.

Some people say "don't get angry - get even", though I'm not sure how you would because he would end up giving you the sack, which I'm guessing you don't want, as you would have already left long ago.

Hell, just put laxatives in everything he eats and drinks, sit back and enjoy work!

You didn't get that from me.
Weasel is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 04:52 AM
  #3  
It's the fight in the man
 
Rich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Churton Park, Wellington, NZ
Posts: 1,208

Bikes: Pace RC200 F2 (British Built!)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That's a hard one Buddy,

Do you have a contract with this guy, or is it just casual?

I don't think it's right that you have to ask him to pay you, that just sounds plain wrong

If you can, go to Citizens Advice and see what they say...other than that, start looking for another job!

Good luck pal...

Rich
__________________
Making New Zealand a safer place :)
Rich is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 05:34 AM
  #4  
BFSSFG old timer
 
riderx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Fredrock
Posts: 1,912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
It's time to start looking for another job. Working is a contract where you agree to provide services in exchange for wages. You are holding your end of the bargain, he is trying to avoid his. Think of it this way, if you showed up to work, and then stood around all day doing nothing and the boss came up and asked you to start working and you got all pissed that he asked you to do what was expected, would that go over well with him? No, he would probably fire you.

This obviously isn't a mistake or a one time thing, it's a pattern. The boss doesn't respect or appreciate your work, time to find someone who does. Good luck on your new job hunt.
riderx is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 06:08 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Snowy midwest
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
RiderX said it perfectly. This is an easy question.

You shouldn't get hassled or feel uncomfortable about being paid and you shouldn't have to ask.

Payday is the best opportunity for an employer to get a smile from his employees. You hand him/her the check and say "thank you for your dedication and contributions".

Find a new job unless the one you have now at the place you now work is good beyond all others and the pay is just secondary. Otherwise, there are better places to sell your skills.
mike is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 07:23 AM
  #6  
Mr. Cellophane
 
RainmanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Buddy,
It is not right for an employee to have to ask to be paid. Whether the owner is just like that or the shop is not doing well enough, I would say it is not the right place to be. Melbourne is a big place. I would start visiting some bike shops. If I were looking for a shop at which to wrench, I would do just as I recommend to people who are looking for a place to do business. Just visit as a customer would. Look around. Does it look like a thriving business? Do the employees look seem happy and cheerful? Does it seem like a place that leans toward serious cyclists but can still make a newbie feel comfortable? My primary LBS is like this. They are patient and very helpful to new riders and moms/dads looking for that Christmas bike for Johnny. But they are also serious cyclists active in the local racing community. Those serious cyclists keep things hopping. They are the ones that don't think twice about dropping big bucks for the lastest carbon fiber super whizzy and may be keeping a couple of racing bikes, a time trial bike and more, coming in and out for repairs/upgrades. But you also have to have a steady stream of moms, pops, and newbies to cultivate those future serious cyclists. They have a large staff and everyone seems happy and satisfied. I would love to work there myself!

Twice in my career I have found myself in positions where I felt like I was being similarly abused. Mainly working absurdly long hours (10 minimum, 12 normal, 15 too often, 18-24 on occasion). It would have been one thing if I knew I was paying dues for an eventual promotion, but I was as far as I could go at that business. I did not complain. I figure that, within the law, it is an employer's prerogative to run the business as he/she pleases, but it is my prerogative to move on to greener, or at least more pleasant, pastures.
FWIW,
Raymond
__________________
If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!
RainmanP is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 02:22 PM
  #7  
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Posts: 18,209

Bikes: 2018 Lynskey Helix Pro

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Buddy, are you on good enough terms with your boss to talk to him about the problem? If so just explain that you don't feel that you should have to ASK for your pay EVERY payday. Then ask how you two can resolve the problem.
If you don't feel comfortable doing this or if he won't cooperate it's time to look elsewhere.
Good luck!

Ron
__________________
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. - Psalm 103:8

I am a cyclist. I am not the fastest or the fittest. But I will get to where I'm going with a smile on my face.

Last edited by RonH; 07-13-01 at 02:24 PM.
RonH is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 03:18 PM
  #8  
Carfree since '82. Grrr!
 
JonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
All the advice I've read in this thread seems valid one way or another, but RonH's is the brand I would go for if possible.

If you can't have a brief but candid conversation, in private, with him to explain that it really hurts your feelings and moreover seems unfair that you have to beg for your wages, which you've well earned, only then to receive them grudgingly--then there's little hope you'll ever enjoy working for this guy anyway. And if you can have such a conversation, it might work wonders, though frankly I doubt it.

But at least there'd be nothing to lose.
__________________
On leave of absence as of March 13, 2002. Contact by email.
JonR is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 03:48 PM
  #9  
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Posts: 9,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
I'd have a word to the guy about it, but if he doesn't co operate after that, I'd look elsewhere. There's probably plenty of other bike shops in Melbourne to work for.

Chris
__________________
I am clinically insane. I am proud of it.

That is all.
Chris L is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 04:34 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
bikebrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have to go with those who recommmend looking elsewhere for new job. It would be bad enough if he just forgot every week . . . but the fact that he then has the nerve to get ticked off when you ask him for your pay suggests to me that attempts to talk it out with this guy would probably be futile. -- Let us know what you decide and how it goes.
bikebrat is offline  
Old 07-13-01, 09:22 PM
  #11  
Member
 
snoop_dujour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Regina Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was wondering if the boss does the same thing to other employees? Maby he is just forgetfull (probly not)
snoop_dujour is offline  
Old 07-14-01, 12:38 AM
  #12  
Guitar Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the advice guy's,it is nice to know what other people think..My boss is very , very forgetfull,and very unorganised,he really is a nutty professor..he has a memory that can remember the most incredible facts and figures from a very long time ago,and specifications that most people don't give a rats about..but he simply can't remember the important stuff ie: staff wages,ordering bits and pieces,taxes,specialist tasks that only he can take care of !. I am the only full time employee in the store, the other's are part-time/casual, and I am constantly reminding him to do this or do that,I can live with the fact that If HE forgets to get a welding job done on time or a machined part made on the lathe 2minutes before the customer is due to pick it up,then HE has to explain that to the customer......I will never lie to a customer on his behalf because his memory and time managment skills are totally crap..I have a lot more integrity than to do that...so my underlying PERSONEL problem is his forgetfulness with the wages..perhaps he gets pissed when I ask for them because he gets embarrassed of his lack of memory and managerial skills..I don't know, but all I want every Friday is my wages in my hand with none of the crap to get them. I do like my position there,as I am in complete charge of servicing and repairs and I am left to my own devices,and I totally make sure the bike is ready on time ,every time ..I find it easier to have it ready ,than to make up some lame excuse for why it is not... but DOH! I still want my wages.....cheers...Buddy.
__________________
Velosophy#1: It is better to have a bicycle and no money , than money and no bicycle ! Velosophy # 2 : "Winning is simple, but not easy." #3: "Give a man a fish and he shall eat for a day , teach him how to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"
Buddy Hayden is offline  
Old 07-14-01, 07:02 AM
  #13  
riding a Pinarello Prince
 
orguasch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Posts: 2,409

Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a very similar situation, about 4 or 5 years ago, my paycheck from my previous employer was getting late, so Iasked the manager what's going on, and he informed me that one of their managing partner run away with almost half of the company's assets, I stayed with them for about three more months, and my pay check still is getting late to my pocket, So I asked again same response, in the meantime, our supplier, were not giving us any more stuffs to sell unless its cash on delivery, So Next thing you know, I was out the door as fast as I could, and get employed by a better Company, "Call that as being insensitive or whatver, But I work to get Paid and not work and not get paid, in short, start looking for a new job,
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
orguasch is offline  
Old 07-14-01, 07:12 AM
  #14  
riding a Pinarello Prince
 
orguasch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Posts: 2,409

Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was able to read a couple of your post, Can I asked you a question.
the bike shop your working right now is it a "Cooperative Bike Shop" and are you a member of the cooperative and if it is, then You should really talk to the manager, that you are a part owner of the Bike shop, and you demand for your pay, that is your money you work for it, and as for looking for another bike shop to work, then Think hard, Do you wnat to grow with the Cooperative or not, Wait A minute, I think I am well ahead o this issue, actually I think I have already place the "cart before the horse" keep us posted on this one please.... have a beer on me
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
orguasch is offline  
Old 07-14-01, 07:17 AM
  #15  
riding a Pinarello Prince
 
orguasch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Posts: 2,409

Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Make a poster and place it in a conspicuous place in the bike shop in this wordingEvery Friday we get paid, we need our paycheck on Friday,
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
orguasch is offline  
Old 07-14-01, 07:55 AM
  #16  
Mr. Cellophane
 
RainmanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK, now the picture becomes a little clearer. Sounds like he is a good guy, just forgetful. Maybe we can work with that. Now you have some decisions to make. Do you like the boss/shop/atmosphere enough to try to make things better or do you want to hang it up and go somewhere that you just have to worry about working on bikes?

I have read and believe that the manager/employee relationship, assuming everyone is acting like rational adults and not playing games, should be as follows: The manager/employee relationship is a sybiotic one. The manager's responsibility is to make sure that the employee has the training, tools, equipment, environment, etc., to do what he/she is supposed to do. The employee's responsibility is to take these tools and make the manager look good. Some may quibble, but if you think about it, that is what it comes down to.

I assume the boss has provided the physical requirements for you to do a good job as well as a reasonable environment. The forgetfulness generally, and forgotten pay days specifically are making the environment less than ideal. If you want to give it a shot, maybe you could try to help set up a system or systems to help the boss do a better job. Now, how can you go about this? Tell the boss he is forgetful and you are going to help him? NO! NO! NO! One has the authority to tell a subordinate what to do, but not a boss!

Try this. Do you have a job board of some kind? At a relaxed time when things are calm, tell the boss that when things get hectic, YOU sometimes feel a little overwhelmed and have trouble keeping track of what needs to be done first. Suggest that YOU set up a simple bulletin board to pin up job tickets so you can see at a glance what is in the shop. If he goes for that and you get it set up, MAKE IT WORK. After a week or two, mention that it is really helping you by making it easier to keep track of things. Then, again in a relaxed moment, you could suggest, "Hey, maybe you could stick up notes on things you have to order, repair, etc., and make a note on it when you order it or plan to do it. That way, when a customer calls and you are not available, I can tell them that the part was ordered or when you plan to get to that difficult repair." This can have at least two major benefits. It really CAN help you, reducing your stress, and it will help him, which also helps you.

If you can get something like this working, maybe you can think of other things that will help everything get more organized. The more organized things get, the smoother they will run, and maybe, just maybe, the paychecks will get done on time, too! This is not a quick fix. It won't guarantee that you won't have to ask for your pay next week. But maybe in a few months things will even get that organized.

It is seldom productive to "confront" a boss about something. Even if he knows in his heart you are right, he will more than likely react defensively because he is embarassed. You would be amazed at what you can accomplish by suggesting little things that will help YOU do YOUR job better that will also help him do his job better.

Running a small business, and I would think especially a bike shop, is a stressful occupation. The owner is ultimately responsible for everything. When things are going great, he may do well. When business is slow, he is the one who is on the line for the rent, utilities, paying the bank loan for the parts inventory and all those bikes gathering dust on the showroom. All those people as well as employees, expect to be paid timely, whether a bike gets sold or not.

You may already have a job board. If so, that is fine. My intent here is to suggest an approach on how to help your boss, and ultimately, YOU. Learn all you can about running the shop and constantly look for ways to make your shop the best. After all, you may want to buy it some day or start you own and you will know how to run a good one.

Now I am going to say a couple of things that may sound harsh. THEY ARE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU PERSONALLY AT ALL. They are aimed at a common response. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE.
Here it is: PLEASE DO NOT post a reply saying "But..." or "That would never work here because..." Such thinking is counter-productive. IT IS TRUE. What I have suggested may not do any good at all. BUT SOMETHING MIGHT. You know the shop. You are there. The point is to start a thought process about what COULD be done to make things more organized and therefore better.

I hope you realize that NONE of this is to suggest that you are not doing a good job. Suggesting ideas to help oneself do a job better is kind of camouflage for suggestions that will help the boss. But for it to work, the employee has to be sincere and does have to work the suggested system whole-heartedlyand attribute improvements to it. The boss must never know the suggestions were aimed at him or it will never work again and he might even be ticked. He has to think, and it has to actually be so, that your intent was to set up something to help YOU do a better job for HIM.

Hope you are able to get some things going and resolve your initial concerns. The shop sounds like a pleasant place to work if you can just help get the boss more organized. Your boss sounds like a very accomplished mechanic. I mean, he actually does his own welding? That is pretty amazing to me. But even the best mechanic does not necessarily make for a truly effective small business operator. It sounds like he runs things strictly by the seat of his pants, probably with no training in accounting, inventory control, salesmanship, or the other skills that help make a small business work better. A very few people pick up these skills automatically. For the rest of us it is a difficult learning process.
Best of luck!
Raymond
__________________
If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!
RainmanP is offline  
Old 07-15-01, 09:47 AM
  #17  
Love Me....Love My Bike!
 
aerobat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,231

Bikes: Bikes: Giant hybrid, Trek 4500, Cannondale R800 Some commuting 20mi/day, mostly fitness riding - 20-50 mile rides

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Excellent advice, Ray. I guess it boils down to making the boss think it was his idea. I used to have a boss like that, whose first response to everything was "No!", unless we used that tactic.

I still work partime for another guy, who uses much the same tactics about pay. For me it wasn't a problem because, being part time, I wasn't dependent on the money. For the full time guys it was a real issue and turnover was quite high, although due to the nature of the industry it would have been anyway, but there wasn't any love lost between employer and employees. I think he used that tactic as a source of power and control over his employees.

Maybe you can use your special relationship, as the only full timer, to develop a way to get him to respond to you more appropriatly.
__________________
"...perhaps the world needs a little more Canada" - Jean Chretian, 2003.
aerobat is offline  
Old 07-15-01, 12:26 PM
  #18  
Carfree since '82. Grrr!
 
JonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Raymond's advice is very, very sound. It's worth reading that EXTREMELY LONG post two or three times, to let it really sink in. I know from a work experience of forty-plus years that what he says is gospel truth.

The question to ask in difficult situations is: what can I do to benefit everybody that's suffering from this problem? This is the positive approach that Raymond advocates.

I've engaged in my share of confrontations in the workplace, and there hasn't been one of them that hasn't left a bitter taste, even if I seemed to win at the time. Far better to think of some constructive way to improve things that will not result in any loss of face or hard feelings.

Sometimes, of course, this may even mean just quitting the job.

One other note: there are people (I've known a few) who are so stingy by nature that it hurts them--I'm talking about emotional pain--terrifically to do something like cutting a paycheck. Ideally, these people should not be in a position to have to make expenditures. I believe it's a form of mental illness that needs professional help. Such people's families are often made to suffer needlessly because of this ingrained tight-fistedness. It's possible your boss is one of these unfortunate souls. But he still might respond to creative, helpful ideas.
__________________
On leave of absence as of March 13, 2002. Contact by email.
JonR is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.