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Old 12-06-06, 05:01 PM   #1
dijos
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help me choose a lock

it's between a few; all of them with the cable in addition to the u lock; Krypto std, onguard bulldog or pit bull. all are silver Soldsecure rated.

I am soliciting opinions on ease of carry and use, and getting clarification on a few other things:
is there a real pronounced difference between the bulldog and the pitbull?

I ride a few bikes, and one of them is running 26x2.125s, and the "ATB" models seem to have more room for a bigger tire. is this needed? is it just overkill?

anything else that I may need to know, I'm all ears. Thanks!
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Old 12-06-06, 06:07 PM   #2
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You are pretty much choosing six of one, half a dozen of the other. Both have solid 1/2" shackles. The biggest difference is the Kryptonite STD uses the bent foot design while the Onguard lock locks on both ends. The Onguard lock is more secure (needing two shackle cuts to remove it rather than one), but its a little bit harder to get on and off than the tried and true Bent Foot design of the Kryptonite locks. With the heel/toe design of locking, you sort of have to get a "slap" technique to make sure both pieces of the shackle are aligned then you can pull the key out, while with the bent foot design, its very easy to slip the lock on, turn the key out, and consider it done.

Besides the single versus double-point locking, its almost to the point where you can decide by price. The Onguard lock comes with five keys (and I am not sure if you can get more copies made) while the Kryptonite comes with three, and offers a way to register the key numbers where you can get more copies should you need more keys.
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Old 12-06-06, 06:20 PM   #3
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Well, first of all, as you already know, the locks come rated as bronze, silver or gold. Obviously gold rated ones are safer than the bronze rated ones. What lock to choose depends on the criminality index. If you are gonna leave your 3,000 dollar rig locked in times square maybe you need the gold rated one. If you don't like most of us, maybe a silver one will be enough.

I use a Onguard Pitbull and eventhough it has a few battle scars, local thiefs haven't been able to break it open.

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Old 12-08-06, 05:16 PM   #4
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I use a Krypto mini for the back tire only from inside the frame and use a cable to run through the front tire. Someone could saw through the wheel and tire to get the bike, but a pro bike thief can take any bike. Bike locks are for lazier opportunists.
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Old 12-09-06, 03:50 PM   #5
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MLTS has described the difference between the "silver" level Kryptonite u-locks and the "silver" level OnGuard u-locks: The Kryptonite "bent foot" design makes it easier and faster to use than any other "silver" level lock. The OnGuard "dual bolt" design takes a couple seconds longer to lock up, but requires that a crook cut BOTH legs of the "U", not just one.

As a practical matter, all of the "silver" rated u-locks are similar in quality. I would suggest using the smallest and lightest model that fits around both your rear wheel and a beefy parking meter post.

I use and like both the Kryptonite Evolution "mini" u-lock and the OnGuard Pitbull "Mini" TC. These are the two lightest "silver" rated u-locks that most bike shops carry.

There is a complete list of "silver" rated locks at Soldsecure. The "Magnum" locks sold in the UK are similar to the locks sold in the USA under the OnGuard brand.

www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
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Old 12-09-06, 05:41 PM   #6
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See sheldonbrown.com

I use a Krypto combination U lock and a keyed cable lock. You may want to secure your seatpost.

If this is not enough for you remove parts to make the bike worthless if stolen.
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Old 12-09-06, 11:50 PM   #7
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Get the best lock you can afford and base what you can afford on how expensive your bike is. For example, you wouldn't want to pay $120 dollars for a lock to lock up a $250 bike, nor would you lock a $4,000 dollar bike with a $50 lock.

Sheldon Brown is demonstrating how to use a mini U, and his explaination for that is correct...BUT, what he uses is not correct! The mini U locks do not allow you to lock your front wheel; to do that you need a full size U lock; you remove the front wheel and place it alongside the rear then you use Sheldon Browns mini U bolt method to lock the bike and the two wheels.

But locking your bike doesn't stop with just one lock, you should use 2 different kinds of locks to foil any thief. Get a another lock like a heavy chain lock. If your locking the bike up at the same place every day, you could leave the chain lock secured to a post when your not parked there, just make sure you get permission to leave the lock.

But if you have a expensive bike your concerned about your best anti-theft program is to buy a cheap $50 or so used or Wallyworld bike and take that one to leave outside with a cheap lock and leave the good one at home.

Any lock can be defeated within seconds either by breaking it with brute physical power or picking the lock.
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Old 12-10-06, 12:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
Sheldon Brown is demonstrating how to use a mini U, and his explaination for that is correct...BUT, what he uses is not correct! The mini U locks do not allow you to lock your front wheel; to do that you need a full size U lock; you remove the front wheel and place it alongside the rear then you use Sheldon Browns mini U bolt method to lock the bike and the two wheels.
I see no need to remove the front wheel when you can easily use a locking skewer in place of the quick release to obviate this need. It also makes locking up *much* more practical and feasible when you're parking at a crowded bike rack.
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Old 12-10-06, 10:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
Sheldon Brown is demonstrating how to use a mini U, and his explaination for that is correct...BUT, what he uses is not correct! The mini U locks do not allow you to lock your front wheel; to do that you need a full size U lock; you remove the front wheel and place it alongside the rear then you use Sheldon Browns mini U bolt method to lock the bike and the two wheels.

But locking your bike doesn't stop with just one lock, you should use 2 different kinds of locks to foil any thief. Get a another lock like a heavy chain lock. If your locking the bike up at the same place every day, you could leave the chain lock secured to a post when your not parked there, just make sure you get permission to leave the lock.
My Lock Strategy article is at http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy

I do not recommend using a U-lock by itself for high security parking, I recommend a U-lock in conjunction with a good cable lock. The cable lock secures the front wheel.

The beauty of this system is that it takes totally different tools to cut a U-lock vs a cable lock, so only a thief equipped with both can succeed.

I advise against removing the front wheel for locking purposes for several reasons:

•It's too much trouble. You shouldn't need to disassemble your bike just to park it.

•It exposes the fork to damage. The fork ends are supposed to be protected by being attached to a hub, they're not intended to be bumped against concrete.

•I see too many people riding around the city who have done this and then made a dangerous error in re-installation of the front wheel; crooked wheels, disconnected brakes, brake shoes knocked askew, QR skewer set incorrectly...

Sheldon "Leave The Heavy Lock On The Rack" Brown
Code:
+-----------------------------------------------+
|       I saw a man pursuing the horizon;       |         
|       Round and round they sped.              |      
|       I was disturbed at this;                |      
|       I accosted the man.                     |      
|                                               |      
|       "It is futile," I said,                 |      
|       "You can never--"                       |      
|                                               |      
|       "You lie," he cried,                    |
|       And ran on.                             |
|                    --Stephen Crane            |
+-----------------------------------------------+
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Old 12-10-06, 10:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
My Lock Strategy article is at http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy

I do not recommend using a U-lock by itself for high security parking, I recommend a U-lock in conjunction with a good cable lock. The cable lock secures the front wheel.

The beauty of this system is that it takes totally different tools to cut a U-lock vs a cable lock, so only a thief equipped with both can succeed.

I advise against removing the front wheel for locking purposes for several reasons:

•It's too much trouble. You shouldn't need to disassemble your bike just to park it.

•It exposes the fork to damage. The fork ends are supposed to be protected by being attached to a hub, they're not intended to be bumped against concrete.

•I see too many people riding around the city who have done this and then made a dangerous error in re-installation of the front wheel; crooked wheels, disconnected brakes, brake shoes knocked askew, QR skewer set incorrectly...

Sheldon "Leave The Heavy Lock On The Rack" Brown
[/CODE]
I agree with using two locks, problem is most here on this forum think that cables are a useless defense. I happen to agree with you on this. Cables are light (but need to be thick), can be coiled to fit in a backpack, and if combined with a U-Bolt would indeed require the thief to have two sets of tools to do the job. Now if I lived in a very high bike theft area like NY or LA and parked the bike where visibility may be low then maybe I would get the Krypto NY Chain instead of a cable, but that thing is very heavy and a pain to have to carry everywhere you go.

True you can damage the fork ends, but there use to be either rubber or plastic fork end protectors you could buy for that very reason, but I haven't seen those in a while.

Removing the wheel and replacing it shouldn't be a big deal nor too much trouble, your talking taking about 30 seconds to take it off and 30 seconds to put it on at tops; also if it was that difficult then even those who get flats (which is everyone) would have the same dangerous situation you speak of thus no one should attempt to fix their flat due to removing the front wheel which would cause them to have "crooked wheels, disconnected brakes, brake shoes knocked askew, QR skewer set incorrectly...thus a dangerous situation"...that's just instilling fear in our little minds that doesn't exist except in very rare cases; and if a person is that nonmechanically inclined not to be able to put their front wheel on correctly then maybe they need a different hobby?

PS: I hope your feeling better, and it's good to see you back on this forum again.
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Old 12-10-06, 10:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker1999
I see no need to remove the front wheel when you can easily use a locking skewer in place of the quick release to obviate this need. It also makes locking up *much* more practical and feasible when you're parking at a crowded bike rack.

I have never seen a locking skewer, where can find such a critter?
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Old 12-11-06, 10:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
I have never seen a locking skewer, where can find such a critter?
A forum search would have turned up plenty of links.

Pitlock skewers (probably the best)
Onguard skewers
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Old 12-11-06, 12:53 PM   #13
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pitlock installed

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.asp
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Old 12-11-06, 12:59 PM   #14
Sheldon Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
I agree with using two locks, problem is most here on this forum think that cables are a useless defense.
I have never heard of a cable being cut for the purpose of stealing a front wheel. This is the application I recommend cables for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
True you can damage the fork ends, but there use to be either rubber or plastic fork end protectors you could buy for that very reason, but I haven't seen those in a while.
Those are used in shipping new bikes, but it seems to me to be a silly additional complication to use one for locking your bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
Removing the wheel and replacing it shouldn't be a big deal nor too much trouble, your talking taking about 30 seconds to take it off and 30 seconds to put it on at tops;
That's true for you or for me, but many folks are not so skillful mechanically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
also if it was that difficult then even those who get flats (which is everyone) would have the same dangerous situation you speak of thus no one should attempt to fix their flat due to removing the front wheel which would cause them to have "crooked wheels, disconnected brakes, brake shoes knocked askew, QR skewer set incorrectly...thus a dangerous situation"
You don't have to deal with the brakes to fix a flat, since a flat tire fits through the brakes with no problem.

It's particularly an issue since most newer bikes no longer have quick release brakes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
...that's just instilling fear in our little minds that doesn't exist except in very rare cases;
Maybe people are smarter/more skillful where you live, but around Boston and Cambridge, I see a very large number of bikes on the road with these problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
and if a person is that nonmechanically inclined not to be able to put their front wheel on correctly then maybe they need a different hobby?
Since when is bicycling a "hobby?" It's a transportation mode to me, and to tens of thousands of others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
PS: I hope your feeling better, and it's good to see you back on this forum again.
Thanks! I wish I was, but my condition continues to deteriorate... :-(

Sheldon "Don't Take Your Bike Apart Unless You Need To" Brown
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|    Do not needlessly endanger your lives    |
|    until I give you the signal.             |
|                   --Dwight D. Eisenhower    |
+---------------------------------------------+
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Old 12-11-06, 05:25 PM   #15
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I highly recommend Pitlocks.
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Old 12-11-06, 08:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
I have never heard of a cable being cut for the purpose of stealing a front wheel. This is the application I recommend cables for.

Exactly my point, but the variance between you and I is simply the what size of U lock to use, I prefer the larger one locking as previously mentioned then using a cable to lock the entire bike again...HOWEVER, I only use a CABLE!!!! It is the thickest cable you can get with ends to slip a lock on which I use the Abus lock; but I never have to lock the bike in bad places, and at work it's in the office with me.



Those are used in shipping new bikes, but it seems to me to be a silly additional complication to use one for locking your bike.

Again I don't lock my bike this way, but I have seen other who did and some used fork protectors...some didn't.



That's true for you or for me, but many folks are not so skillful mechanically.
You don't have to deal with the brakes to fix a flat, since a flat tire fits through the brakes with no problem.
It's particularly an issue since most newer bikes no longer have quick release brakes.
Maybe people are smarter/more skillful where you live, but around Boston and Cambridge, I see a very large number of bikes on the road with these problems.

Geez that's weird. I have seen childrens bikes not having their wheels on tight enough and fall off, but those parents didn't ride bikes so really were clueless



Since when is bicycling a "hobby?" It's a transportation mode to me, and to tens of thousands of others.

I think for those who use their bikes for a hobby you may run into a few people who might have problems putting a front wheel on. Every once in awhile I'll run into a someone who can't fix a flat and I will stop to help and teach them how to do it so next time they might be able to do it. But I'm a strange type of guy who feels that if your out riding a bike you should at the very least know how to fix a flat on the road and if your incapable of doing that then you need a new hobby (you can't use a bike for transportation if you can't fix a flat). But I'm just like you, I ride mine for transportation, but most people don't, in fact when I ride to work I'm lucky if I see one other person riding to work! And I live in a town with about 220,000 people! This was also true in when I lived in various places in California-a supposely green conscious area.



Thanks! I wish I was, but my condition continues to deteriorate... :-(

Sorry to hear that, your a great person and highly knowledgeable in the world of cycling (and probably other areas I'm unaware of), and I for one have learned from you and your website as I'm sure countless others have too.
..
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Old 12-12-06, 06:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
My Lock Strategy article is at http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy

I do not recommend using a U-lock by itself for high security parking, I recommend a U-lock in conjunction with a good cable lock. The cable lock secures the front wheel.

The beauty of this system is that it takes totally different tools to cut a U-lock vs a cable lock, so only a thief equipped with both can succeed.

I advise against removing the front wheel for locking purposes for several reasons:

•It's too much trouble. You shouldn't need to disassemble your bike just to park it.

•It exposes the fork to damage. The fork ends are supposed to be protected by being attached to a hub, they're not intended to be bumped against concrete.

•I see too many people riding around the city who have done this and then made a dangerous error in re-installation of the front wheel; crooked wheels, disconnected brakes, brake shoes knocked askew, QR skewer set incorrectly...

Sheldon "Leave The Heavy Lock On The Rack" Brown
Code:
+-----------------------------------------------+
|       I saw a man pursuing the horizon;       |         
|       Round and round they sped.              |      
|       I was disturbed at this;                |      
|       I accosted the man.                     |      
|                                               |      
|       "It is futile," I said,                 |      
|       "You can never--"                       |      
|                                               |      
|       "You lie," he cried,                    |
|       And ran on.                             |
|                    --Stephen Crane            |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Moderators, this post needs to be a "Sticky". Every week, the Forums get five or six posts asking "how do I lock up my bike?". And, this is the best answer I've seen in the Forums.
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