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Old 02-01-07, 10:33 AM   #1
sdime
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Threat of Pit Bull

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4516817.html

There has been a rash of pit bull and vicious dog attacks.
Walking or biking in the neighborhood is no longer safe.
What do yall do to protect yourself from vicious dogs that
won't be stopped by yelling or squirting water at it?

Frankly, if an 80 pound pit bull charges at me while I'm on
my bike, I think the only choice is to out run because my
hand is not nearly as strong as that trucker who strangled the
pit bull. If I can out run it, there's little I can do but put my
hands up before the pit bull goes for my throat.
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Old 02-01-07, 10:41 AM   #2
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Well I wouldn't have much of a problem. If I was out walking at 5 am it would have to be with the puppies. (They are 5 and 10 years old, just refuse to stop being cute, life is different with 2 100 # plus lap dogs that are very very protective).
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Old 02-01-07, 10:48 AM   #3
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I just had a friend really tore up by a guard dog - in front of its owner. The dog was killed afterward and the owner has a lot of fear of what is going to happen since he is responsible.
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Old 02-01-07, 10:59 AM   #4
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Pit bulls are just one of the dogs known to be dangerous.

That said, I believe that self defense is the overriding concern
that would justify extreme measures to protect one's self.
I would not feel one drop of remorse if it took a gun or large
blade to stop a dangerous dog attack.
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Old 02-01-07, 11:05 AM   #5
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It's a viloent and gross way to snuff it but...you could always keep a few "anti-freeze" meatballs with you and toss them out if they came at you. It would be the last time they did it.
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Old 02-01-07, 11:08 AM   #6
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I am not sure why you think it is less safe now then before to walk or ride in a neighborhood. Dog attacks have happened for centuries. This one news article makes you cautious about biking when there are thousands of caged animals that do not care if they run over you. It is good to be cautious and aware, but do not let it spoil your enjoyment of biking.

Just carry ammonia in a squirt gun or pepper spray. This will stop most dogs if sprayed in their eyes. Your best bet is to do a search on dogs in BF search as this subject has been extensively covered many times.

Enjoy the ride.
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Old 02-01-07, 12:05 PM   #7
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You can buy very effective pepper sprays on ebay for $10. I almost never leave on my bike without mine in some easily accessible spot for use on dogs and other animals that don't walk on 4 legs.

Our department uses Sabre Red. I can personally vouch for it's effectiveness, and it is nice because there are no lasting effects on the dog except his memory of the fireball that hit him in the face when he got close to the human wheeled thing.

**disclaimer - check local laws before buying.
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Old 02-01-07, 12:59 PM   #8
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Ammonia is extremely dangerous. It can and will cause permanent damage, and that includes possible accidental contamination of the user. Not smart. Pepper spray is a better option, but it has "clotting" properties, especially older bottles, and thats why if you carry it, carry at least 2 bottles. And get the strongest stuff possible. If the marine corps can require people to run a gauntlet after getting sprayed with the stuff, don't you think an attack dog just might be able to handle it?- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWpBmHPdA00

Me, I carry an expanding baton like the ones below. I have used it to stop attack dogs. It works very well. Just be careful about head strikes. That would likely cause a skull fracture and death in a human or dog.

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Old 02-01-07, 02:42 PM   #9
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tk4790,
I doubt "antifreeze meatballs" would stop a charging pit bull. Those animals go crazy, and I don't think the smell of tasty treats will take their attention away from your throat.

edp773,
Pitbulls are becoming more and more popular in my part of the country. I think it's due to increase the Hispanic population, which seems to be enamored with pitbulls despite their tendency to go nuts and kill little kids and seriously wound innocent neighbors and, sometimes, even their owners. A lot of these people are judgement-proof, so they don't care about the consequences of owning vicious dogs. Until we make owning vicious dogs a crime punishable with prison time, the number of attacks will only increase. Also, a lot of people around here just don't give a dam about their neighbors.

deputyjones,
If a pitbull comes charging at me, I would be lucky just to be able to get off my bike before it bites me. I have little confidence that I would be able to pull out the pepper spray quick enough, unless I religiously practice quick draw.

michigander,
Unless a person is trained in martial arts, I don't think the baton is a good idea.
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Old 02-01-07, 02:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdime
michigander, Unless a person is trained in martial arts, I don't think the baton is a good idea.
I disagree. I am trained in martial arts, roughly about 6.5 years worth. But batons are a simple thing. Don't hit em in the head. Thats all you need to know.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigander
Ammonia is extremely dangerous. It can and will cause permanent damage, and that includes possible accidental contamination of the user. Not smart. Pepper spray is a better option, but it has "clotting" properties, especially older bottles, and thats why if you carry it, carry at least 2 bottles. And get the strongest stuff possible. If the marine corps can require people to run a gauntlet after getting sprayed with the stuff, don't you think an attack dog just might be able to handle it?- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWpBmHPdA00

Me, I carry an expanding baton like the ones below. I have used it to stop attack dogs. It works very well. Just be careful about head strikes. That would likely cause a skull fracture and death in a human or dog.

Except for the fact they are concidered dangerous weapons in most of North America, and illegal to carry in most cases. Some states will allow them to be on a person if they have a concealed weapons permit.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:03 PM   #12
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What if I attach the baton on the bike frame, in order to not be "concealed"?
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Old 02-01-07, 03:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdime
What if I attach the baton on the bike frame, in order to not be "concealed"?
Check your states laws. Best and safest way to find out.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:36 PM   #14
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We have an open carry law. Gotta love the wild west.
So asp away! I see guys riding with guns.

Yes attach to bike frame so everyone sees it.

Use an airhorn!
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Old 02-01-07, 03:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad
Pit bulls are just one of the dogs known to be dangerous.
My last experience with a pit bull was when I saw one out 'alone'. Alone in quotes because when I got closer I found the owner was tehre just sitting down back to a nearby tree. OK the pit was old and fat, but the only danger she posed was that the owner might end up with a heart attack if she had to pick the dog up to help it get home.

Pitbulls as a bred are somewhat large and aggressive. But in my opinion much more of the problem is training and intent of the owners. If you encourage a dog to be mean there are very few that will not end up mean.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:51 PM   #16
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Since I ride at night I carry a deluge of weapons. Don't have a permit to carry a handgun anymore but always have pepper spray and a good chest mounted knife in case one brings me down. I'll behead the sucker hopefully before it suffocates me in it's mouth

Only had 3 encounters in 20 years and so far I've won all dog vs man combats.
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Old 02-01-07, 03:53 PM   #17
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I am thinking one of the grasscutting machetes would be effective. About 2 1/2 feet long and VERY sharp. Just don't know how to carry it so that if I fell it wouldn't cut me - but still be easy to remove.

Be pretty good for fer-de-lance too.

Honestly, we don't have an issue with these dogs out where I live, too big and too expensive to feed for the average Tico. My friend was bitten in Gringolandia. (meaning, where there are a lot of foreigners who like big savage dogs)
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Old 02-01-07, 04:36 PM   #18
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Tactical Ken Onion Kershaw and Taurus PT111 with Concealed Carry Permit in wallet.
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Old 02-01-07, 04:45 PM   #19
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I don't think either of you can be swayed from your opinions. However, I will reply for the benefit of others because I really believe that pepper spray is a great tool for the cyclist, and I have a lot of experience using it and having it used on me to back that up.

To Michigander: I have on RARE occasions heard of pepper spray canisters failing for whatever reason, but by and large they are very dependable if replaced every few years. As far as stopping power goes, you are comparing apples and oranges (humans to dogs). I have used it on very viscious dogs before and it confuses them and stops them in their tracks. It only lasts a few minutes on dogs, but you by then you could be a mile away. Additionally, batons are illegal in most places plus you have to worry about the possible civil litigation against you for it's use if the dog is injured. Even if you were in the right you still may have to defend yourself in court whereas pepper spray has no lasting effects.

Honestly, dogs are used to getting hit and bitten so in my mind (though I have never used a baton against a dog) the pepper spray is more effective at stopping them just due to the confusion factor and the fact that it causes temporary blindness.

To sdime: You would be suprised how quick you can be and really how much time you have to react when faced with that type of situation. If you keep the canister in a jersey or jacket pocket you can deploy it and never need to get off your bike. In fact, If you are going to deploy it I would recommend NOT getting off the bike. Just keep riding, really fast. I have never deployed mine from my bike (or off-duty for that matter), but I have had it out and in my hand ready to fire on more than a few different dogs before they ran off.

Respectful disagreement here. Use whatever you are comfortable with, and good luck out there.

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Old 02-01-07, 04:51 PM   #20
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Tactical Ken Onion Kershaw and Taurus PT111 with Concealed Carry Permit in wallet.
or that
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Old 02-01-07, 04:56 PM   #21
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You'd be surprised how often just a sharply snapped use of the word "NO!" in a command voice will stop even an aggressive dog in his tracks. Crack it out like a Drill Sargent. That's been my experience, at least.
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Old 02-01-07, 05:14 PM   #22
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The dogs you have to worry about aren't the barky ones, it's the head down, silent ones that are really attempting to bring you down like a deer. Do what you can do to get your bike in between you and the animal. Don't think you can out race most dogs(dobies can do about 35 easy) you need to stand and fight or until the dog loses interest and walks off. Whatever you have with you make sure you can get to it. I used to carry a Bowie knife on my seat pack until I realized if I get sideswiped by a large dog going for the head I will be pushed off my bike away from my weapon. Have something you can grab and use with something (man or dog) wrapped around your throat. Make as much noise as possible, if it's serious you'll want to wake up the entire hood.

My .02 cents.

I use pepper spray if I have time, if not -- the knife, if not that --bang bang.
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Old 02-01-07, 06:02 PM   #23
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HALT! spray has a belt clip on the can. I put adhesive backed velcro on my top tube and the matching piece of velcro on the spray can. Quick and easy. I discovered that the stuff does not spray as far when it is really cold outside, like in the teens.

Mean dogs are scary. No ifs, ands or buts about it. People who casually talk about poisoning dogs with anti-freeze meatballs are scary, too.
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Old 02-01-07, 06:11 PM   #24
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The last dog that came after me did not respond to "no" and " get away!" All i could do was outride him I don,t think I could have pepper sprayed him , he snuck up and jumped out . I pedaled my a$$ off and he stayed about three to four feet behind my feet, for a qtr. mile at 28 mph thank goodness he tired before I did. I was glad that i was riding my roadie instead of my hybrid or recumbent .
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Old 02-01-07, 06:23 PM   #25
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Deputy Jones,

Batons are NOT illegal in most places, they post date legislation on brass knuckles and black jacks and things. They are almost universaly legal to own, and commonly legal to carry, but of course its best to check laws before carrying. You seemed worried about effectiveness, and you really shouldn't be. The bigger and badder or the 2 seperate dogs I ASP'd ran off after 2 strikes. As for getting sued, I honestly figure if I kill a dog, by the time the owner finds it, its another case of I'll be a long way away.

Of course, I agree with tom. 95% of my dog encounters have been taken care of by screaming.

As for the sabre red pepper spray, I agree, its good stuff. But the problem is that they don't like selling to non law enforcement or security personnel. I reccomend Fox Labs instead.

Pepper spray DOES jam, it happened to me, and it happened to a friend of mine. Its not too likely though if you buy new canisters every year or 2.
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