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-   -   why people use cars (http://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/270435-why-people-use-cars.html)

acorn54 02-19-07 08:13 AM

why people use cars
 
much is mentioned about the expense of cars. this is true the cost of owning a car is high. however the fact is people are choosing to have a car because they get a greater net profit from using one versus using a bike. the option of working closer to home and the other changes which a bike would foster reduces the net profit most people would have.
until the net profit of using a car comes close to not using a car the automobile will remain as popular as it is at present.

GreenGrasshoppr 02-19-07 08:58 AM

the problem is not so much working closer to home, than getting a home closer to work.

real estate bubble and all that.

Retro Grouch 02-19-07 09:03 AM

Shouldn't this be in alternative lifestyle?

The bottom line is: You do whatever you think is best for you and I'll do what I think is best for me.

wheel 02-19-07 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Shouldn't this be in alternative lifestyle?

Where is that Forum?

Cost is cheap I had a car for around 1500 dollars a year before I donated it. In the old days sure you could work at the same job for like 50 years.

operator 02-19-07 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
The bottom line is: You do whatever you think is best for you and I'll do what I think is best for me.

Good thing we have a legal system and law enforcement agents to help you to not do that.

San Rensho 02-19-07 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acorn54
much is mentioned about the expense of cars. this is true the cost of owning a car is high. however the fact is people are choosing to have a car because they get a greater net profit from using one versus using a bike. the option of working closer to home and the other changes which a bike would foster reduces the net profit most people would have.
until the net profit of using a car comes close to not using a car the automobile will remain as popular as it is at present.

Explain what "net profit" is from a car and how it is higher for a car than for a bicycle?

KnhoJ 02-19-07 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Rensho
Explain what "net profit" is from a car and how it is higher for a car than for a bicycle?

It usually involves opportunity cost derived from commute times: lowballing the bike commute at 10-12 mph, and highballing the drive time at 40+, over the (probably unmentioned) average American commute, or maybe they went so far as to cherry pick a specific area's average commute distance. Don't give the overall times for either commute option, just list the time difference. Then, calculate opportunity cost by cherry picking a high median income area, and adjust for double time rate overtime. Opportunity cost is a valuable tool in the fine art of justifying doing what you really want to do anyway.
Without the cheating, I've used opportunity cost to show how renting my apartment across the street from work will cost me less than buying a house in an area I can afford. Yes, that includes equity on the home over 30 years, and adjusted rental rates over that time period as well. But, yeah right, I'm not going to waste my 5-10 hours a week of extra free time *working*. I just don't feel like mowing a lawn. Don't feel like driving, either.

roadfix 02-19-07 08:20 PM

I just need something that can carry a lot of stuff to and from work everyday, fast.

dobber 02-19-07 08:22 PM

What a silly-ass thread.

monogodo 02-19-07 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnhoJ
It usually involves opportunity cost derived from commute times: lowballing the bike commute at 10-12 mph, and highballing the drive time at 40+, over the (probably unmentioned) average American commute, or maybe they went so far as to cherry pick a specific area's average commute distance. Don't give the overall times for either commute option, just list the time difference. Then, calculate opportunity cost by cherry picking a high median income area, and adjust for double time rate overtime. Opportunity cost is a valuable tool in the fine art of justifying doing what you really want to do anyway.
Without the cheating, I've used opportunity cost to show how renting my apartment across the street from work will cost me less than buying a house in an area I can afford. Yes, that includes equity on the home over 30 years, and adjusted rental rates over that time period as well. But, yeah right, I'm not going to waste my 5-10 hours a week of extra free time *working*. I just don't feel like mowing a lawn. Don't feel like driving, either.

My wife and I worked it out that getting a second car would cost us around $700 per month, including car payment, insurance, maintenance, parking, etc. We rent a loft across the street from where I work. In order to make purchasing a car worth while financially, we'd have to move so far out of town that the time cost of commuting would make it not worth it. Then, as you mentioned, there's the aspect of mowing a lawn and home maintenance that I don't have to deal with, giving me that much more free time on the weekends.

Rev.Chuck 02-19-07 11:11 PM

Drive to work 25 minutes. Obeying speed limit and all green lights, 19 minutes is possible(But very unlikely). 14.9 miles.
Commute to work on bike, best time ever, hour and twenty minutes(avg. speed 19.1mph and lots of lights), not counting changing clothes or getting ready. 19+ miles, bike requires different route than car.
Can't fit 3 dogs, 4 cats, 2 snakes, 13 bikes, tools, and welders in apartment. Can't afford house in town.

UmneyDurak 02-20-07 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev.Chuck
Drive to work 25 minutes. Obeying speed limit and all green lights, 19 minutes is possible(But very unlikely). 14.9 miles.
Commute to work on bike, best time ever, hour and twenty minutes(avg. speed 19.1mph and lots of lights), not counting changing clothes or getting ready. 19+ miles, bike requires different route than car.
Can't fit 3 dogs, 4 cats, 2 snakes, 13 bikes, tools, and welders in apartment. Can't afford house in town.

Damn that must be a lot of lights!

Ziemas 02-20-07 12:46 AM

Why do I have a car? First off I'll say I cycle commute to work every day, rain, snow, or shine. So it's not for going to work.

BUT a car is helpful for getting groceries, building supplies, taking my 78 year old mother-in-law where she needs to go, going out for a night at the opera, taking my dogs to the vet, going mushroom hunting in the countryside during the summer months, going anyplace with my wife when it is -20c or colder outside, traveling to neighboring countries, etc, etc, etc.

FWIW I paid cash for my car (a 1996 VW Golf GTI TDI), get amazing fuel consumption (5.5l per 100k), and insurance costs me around USD100 a YEAR. It's all well worth it as far as I'm concerned.

Remember, it's not the use of something that is bad, it the abuse of it that is bad.

Bekologist 02-20-07 10:47 AM

people use cars because:

they are conveinent.
cars have been pushed on the average american as the only sensible way of transportation.
public transit is often times not available or timely for workers or shoppers.
people are out of shape, walking a half mile to a store is seen as too much if a car can get you there in much faster times.
people value conveinence at the expense of livable communities.
affordable housing around metropolitian areas often precludes bike commuting.
sprawl precludes quick, short trips by bicycle.
there are forces at work to further american auto dependancy.


Pro-sprawl advocates like the supposed bicyclist John Forester promote further dependance on the automobile by speaking for pro sprawl organizations facilitating autocentric dystopia.

the fantasies of livable america by the virtues of sprawl is apparant at the american dream website.
the "great vehicular cyclist" John Forester is now a paid speaker to advance pro-sprawl auto dependency.

www.americandream.org - these people are SICK, in my opinion. sprawl sucks.

Rev.Chuck 02-20-07 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Damn that must be a lot of lights!

There are 27 lights on the car route, usually 7 to 8 are red. About the same number for the bike route.

Keith99 02-20-07 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel
Where is that Forum?

Cost is cheap I had a car for around 1500 dollars a year before I donated it. In the old days sure you could work at the same job for like 50 years.

And for a couple only one needed to work! With 2 (or more) in a household working it can be all but imposible for them all to live near work.

Dogbait 02-20-07 01:05 PM

I used to live near where I worked. It took 15 minutes to drive and 20-25 to ride my bike... I rode my bike 90% of the time. Then a divorce happened. I traded my interest in the house for some peace of mind and found that my rate of pay had not kept up with the spiraling cost of housing. I moved to a more affordable area out of town and began driving to work... 52 miles a day. I got by with cheap, disposable (very used) high mpg cars.

I would have preferred living closer to work but with only one income in a two income society, I would have had to live in a run-down, high-crime area.

Nightshade 02-21-07 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acorn54
much is mentioned about the expense of cars. this is true the cost of owning a car is high. however the fact is people are choosing to have a car because they get a greater net profit from using one versus using a bike. the option of working closer to home and the other changes which a bike would foster reduces the net profit most people would have.
until the net profit of using a car comes close to not using a car the automobile will remain as popular as it is at present.

What a load of tommy rot!!! This post reflects a total lack of undrstanding
as to the envrionmental impact of cars in addtion to the damage/drain on
any families budget that cars brings. Total tommy rot!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Do some reaserch before you post crap like this..................

Blue Jays 02-22-07 01:38 AM

Hi All-

I drive a car because I have to meet important customers on hot, humid days while wearing decent business attire and carrying a laptop computer and printed business reports. Engaging in this automobile-centric lifestyle allows me the flexibility to purchase bicycles, which I also utilize on a frequent basis.

~ Blue Jays ~

operator 02-22-07 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Jays
Hi All-

I drive a car because I have to meet important customers on hot, humid days while wearing decent business attire and carrying a laptop computer and printed business reports. Engaging in this automobile-centric lifestyle allows me the flexibility to purchase bicycles, which I also utilize on a frequent basis.

~ Blue Jays ~


Nobody said there weren't legitimate uses for cars. This is bikeforums however, note the word bike.

gear 02-22-07 08:55 AM

Bicycling isn't just a form of transportation it is also a form of exercise. If you are trying to compare commuting by driving (which provides no exercise) with commuting by bicycling you should also add into the equation the additional time and money spent to get a comperable amount of exercise when you commute by car. When that is added to the equation, you find that you not only save money commuting by bicycle but you save time too. The car might get you there faster (maybe not in urban commuting when you add the time to park) but if you add the time spent at the gym to the commute, the bike ride is quicker because there is no stop at the gym needed.

Blue Jays 02-22-07 08:59 AM

Hi operator-

Cars are essential due to the way planners have arranged our society. Tracts of suburbs lead to tracts of other suburbs, which lead to tracts of office parks, often leading to more tracts of suburbs. Moving away from cars with our current logistical layout would be nearly impossible.

~ Blue Jays ~

acorn54 02-22-07 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tightwad
What a load of tommy rot!!! This post reflects a total lack of undrstanding
as to the envrionmental impact of cars in addtion to the damage/drain on
any families budget that cars brings. Total tommy rot!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Do some reaserch before you post crap like this..................

i already have a college degree in accounting and have taken numerous courses on economics and i can tell you that if people could get more purchasing power by using a bike versus using a car they would use a bike. the capitalist market is driven by people's self interest.

Blue Jays 02-22-07 09:03 AM

Hi All-

I once had a job located eleven miles away that had lockers and showers. For four years I was able to ride to work four days per week. On the fifth day I would drive and bring all my towels, toiletries, and office clothes for the remainder of the week. It was fantastic. With "virtual offices" and reporting to client sites nowadays, it's not quite as straightforward. That's just a change of the modern business landscape.

~ Blue Jays ~

Nightshade 02-22-07 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acorn54
i already have a college degree in accounting and have taken numerous courses on economics and i can tell you that if people could get more purchasing power by using a bike versus using a car they would use a bike. the capitalist market is driven by people's self interest.

Whatever.You didn't say that in your first post. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


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