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Old 05-22-03, 03:41 PM   #1
N_C
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Personal performance.

Alright lets face it folks some people are built to ride bikes very fast and others, well aren't. I'm one of those that isn't.

Even at my ideal weight I'll stiull have the body of a football player and not a runner or cyclist. Nothing I can do about it just the way GOD and genetics made me.

What does this mean? Well it means I get dropped often when I ride with the club. Now part of that is because I am over weight. But even after I lose all the weight I have a feeling my performance will only improve slightly. then again maybe it wil improve a great deal, time will tell.

So am I going to quite cycling? Hell no! I don;t really care if I get dropped by the group. As long as I know the route I have no problem with it. I hold my own and keep my heart rate where it is supposed to be. I'm not going to over do it and exhaust myself because I want to keep up. I used to burn myself out early then get dropped off the back. When I did that I would be miserable for the rest of the ride. Not any more. Now I ride at my own ability and continue to improve my performance.

Thanks for reading, just thought I'd share.

Anyone else deal with things like this since they have been riding?
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Old 05-22-03, 04:04 PM   #2
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Come out to California and ride with my group. We ride fast and hard, but we won't drop you.
Or, find a group like ours where you live. A group that loves a good workout without destroying group integrity.
Keep riding.
Push the big ring.
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Old 05-22-03, 05:16 PM   #3
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Gotta love the big ring......I ride Team Time Trials and it's neat to hammer along without dropping off the big Ring we are aiming for 25mins on the 16km course this weekend!

Brendon
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Old 05-22-03, 07:19 PM   #4
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Originally posted by N_C
So am I going to quite cycling? Hell no! I don;t really care if I get dropped by the group. As long as I know the route I have no problem with it.

Now I ride at my own ability and continue to improve my performance.
Hell, yes! Good for you, N_C.
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Old 05-22-03, 08:00 PM   #5
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I don't know if I made it real clear or not. I should not say I get dropped, as in purpously dropped. I don't, its just that I often can not hang with the rest of the group. They may cruise along at 18 to 20 mph and I can only handle 15 to 17 mph. So of course I'm going to fall behind and off the back. But it is not a purpously malicious thing the group does to me. Hell if anything they are the nicest group of people you'd want to meet.
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Old 05-22-03, 08:22 PM   #6
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It will take time.

Most people know I put on a great deal of weight over a year, and now I'm struggling to get it off. I do know one thing- after dropping about 13 pounds so far, I have a particular route I chose to take and clock myself on. At first, I was only able to do the route in like 3 and a half hours. Now, at 13 pounds lighter, I'm able to do the same route in 2 hours and 25 minutes. I'm now working to get the next 10 pounds off and see if I can get down to 2 hours. And this is on my hybrid bike, with my day pack and my heavy kryptonite locks bungee corded to the rear rack.

I know when I get back to my idea weight, I'll be zipping along, and when I get that road bike I'm working towards after the weight comes off, I'll be as fast as anyone else out there. I continue to work on cadence and keeping my speed up- 80- 90 rpms is my average cadence right now, and after the next 10 pounds come off, I'll be working on building up my cadence to 90- 100 rpms.

Keep the faith and keep up the weight loss. It'll take some time, but if you stick with it, the rewards will be well worth the weight.

Good luck!

Koffee
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Old 05-22-03, 08:29 PM   #7
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I never measure myself against other people. My only measuring stick is myself. As I progress I can make small comparisons to others but as I continue moving forward I never stop and I usually catch up or pass people in their progression. I also never become upset with my progress because I take even the smallest things and hold them up for my pride
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Old 05-22-03, 09:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koffee Brown
I do know one thing- after dropping about 13 pounds so far, I have a particular route I chose to take and clock myself on. At first, I was only able to do the route in like 3 and a half hours. Now, at 13 pounds lighter, I'm able to do the same route in 2 hours and 25 minutes. I'm now working to get the next 10 pounds off and see if I can get down to 2 hours.

Koffee
I'm not clear on all you are doing, but from everything I've been able to find on how weight affects speed, I don't think a 28% improvement can be because of a 13 lb weight loss. For example, one source I had said a 10 lb weight reduction would save only 33 seconds over a 20 mile course (various terrain).

I suspect that as you are losing weight, you are also building muscle and skills which makes the main differences.

Bob
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Old 05-22-03, 09:34 PM   #9
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I purposely load my bike down to the point I probably ride at a pace similar to yours(as I don't have a computer I never really know or care for sure) .I ride for fatloss ,adventure and training for touring.Speed is not really a primary objective though my pace has improved significantly with training and if I ever got a light racing bike I am sure I would be much faster.I don't usu ride with a group but on the routes I take there are usu a lot of group riders particularly on weekends and there is still a lot of comraderie even though I sometimes take other routes on weekends as they can get overcrowded with joggers lol. So ride at your own pace and for your own objectives and if you can do this while maintaining the comraderie of participating in a group all the better but don't let trivial things like that determine whether you decide to cycle or not as it doesn't sound like you are.
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Old 05-22-03, 09:42 PM   #10
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Well, everyone has to start some where. All the great cyclist of the past started from the bottom just like everyone else. I am 6' 5" , 240 pounds, and I am riding twice as good as I was a month ago. You would be suprized how much you can improve in just 2-3 weeks. 2 hours/30 miles a day, 6 days a week. Dont give up.
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Old 05-22-03, 10:45 PM   #11
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I suspect that as you are losing weight, you are also building muscle and skills which makes the main differences.
That's just what I'm getting at- as you lose the weight and you're doing the training, you get much better at the riding, and as a result, your speed goes up. It's not just about losing the fat- there's lots of ride time and practice, practice, practice...

I wouldn't have gotten as far as I am today with my training if I hadn't lost that initial bunch of fat. I'm sure as I lose more fat and continue with my cadence, intervals, endurance and hill drills, I will continue to pick up my speed. I'm giving myself by the end of September to have a good pace going for myself with the maximum amount of fat lost.

I suspect that really the people who will understand what I am saying are the ones in a situation similar to mine- overweight and losing fat and seeing the difference with an increase in their time. I'm sure I'm not some riding freak- I think the article you are talking about is incorrect in some way, or has other variables factored in that we are unaware of. If you can find the article and can send it over, I'd love to analyze it sometime.

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Old 05-23-03, 12:14 AM   #12
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> That's just what I'm getting at- as you lose the weight and you're doing the training, you get much better at the riding, and as a result, your speed goes up. It's not just about losing the fat- there's lots of ride time and practice, practice, practice... <

Yep.

> I suspect that really the people who will understand what I am saying are the ones in a situation similar to mine- overweight and losing fat and seeing the difference with an increase in their time. <

I started out around 161 and now am around 145. Losing the weight helped, but it was the muscle and skill development that really made the difference. I can't measure my initial improvement well. My records show my first ride took 143 minutes, but that included all stops. I made lots of stops, not only for the many traffic lights, but also to catch my breath, figure out my route, and sometimes just to let traffic get out of my way.

About a month later I made the ride in 70 minutes, but my computer didn't include stops. I also had found a slightly shorter route to the destination. Since then, I have made it as fast as 37:08 (again, not counting stops). I would really like to do it in 35 minutes just to say I cut the time in half (grin).

> I'm sure I'm not some riding freak- I think the article you are talking about is incorrect in some way, or has other variables factored in that we are unaware of. If you can find the article and can send it over, I'd love to analyze it sometime. <

I have always wondered about the effect of weight and how accurate such measuremests are, but I have found that every report shows much smaller differences than most people would expect.

Anyway, here is the link:

http://w3.iac.net/~curta/bp/BikeSheet.html

I'd be interested in any analysis you have.

Bob
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Old 05-23-03, 12:56 AM   #13
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Originally posted by Koffee Brown
And this is on my hybrid bike, with my day pack and my heavy kryptonite locks bungee corded to the rear rack.
That kryptonite will slow you down everytime. Oh sorry .... no .... I was thinking of Superman.
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Old 05-23-03, 08:04 AM   #14
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It depends on the kryptonite- green kryptonite will kill, but apparently red kryptonite only makes you apathetic.

Which one were you referring to, Media?

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Old 05-24-03, 08:09 AM   #15
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Its not as much about building muscle and losing weight but becoming more efficient.30lbs overweight will slow you down but not much IF your already in good cycling shape,100lbs overweight is huge however.I went thru the process of riding lots and losing the weight the old fashioned way,I only lost about 34 lbs,no I wasnt too bad to start with....but I didnt gain any muscle really,just got alot leaner more well defined muscles out of the deal AND lost some muscle elsewhere that wasnt helping me get down the road.Still I think the biggest increases come from better cardio outpu/efficiency and muslces trained to be really efficient at using whats available,not necessarily getting bigger.Takes a LONG time to get in good shape ridng a bike too,many I think neglect that,it can and often takes years to get fast.So,best thing to do is keep riding,riding as much as possible and stay with it.Ive been a messenger for just over 2yrs,yes Im faster than I was when I started,but I still cant hang with the REALLY fast guys,a couple more years of riding 350+ miles/wk and I suspect I may be able to stay with guys like that,it takes time at all levels of cycling to gain speed.Losing weight is just a side effect,ride enough and thats gonna happen no matter what you eat.
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Old 05-24-03, 09:16 AM   #16
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ride enough and thats gonna happen no matter what you eat.
Doubtful.

If it was really that easy, don't you think we'd have less fat people?

It's a very oversimplified remark to take. There are A LOT of other factors to take into account when looking at someone's case history for being overweight.

What part of the regular population will really be able to ride 350 miles a week? It's not likely to happen, so for the rest of us, let's discuss some ideas on how we can get the weight off without having to quit our jobs or give up quality family time, or whatever else is going on in our lives.

Sorry, I'm not about to become a messenger just to get the extra weight off. I might as well go for the lipo...

Koffee
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Old 05-24-03, 09:24 AM   #17
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I'm pretty sure N_C was posting about something besides weight-loss and training per se...

I think that everyone benefits from the realiztion of "where they are" in a given training program as well physical attributes.

Very interesting. Close examination of some cyclists has shown that some have differing proportions of muscle fiber types.

It has been noted that some these differences in muscle fiber are genetic in origin and cannot be overcome through training. (this is a given in the running sports world)

Now, I believe, N_C is asserting that a given "body-type" or bone-frame-type size dictates their ability to perform as well as "smaller-framed" others?

There are at least two factors in determinig possible cycling efficiency or success for two given individuals of differing weight. One of these is the BodyMassIndex, or Lean body mass as a percentage of total body weight. Another is simply total body weight.

The highest BMI in conjunction with the least overall weight has the efficiency to do the best in hills and non-linear efforts (starts and stops.... The highest BMI with the greatest weight will perform best on flat terrain. (assuming favorable square-frontal area/mass ratios are similar between riders.

So N_C, go figure out your BMI and see if there's anything you can do about it, I had not heard that it is a function of genetics.
In other words, there's no reason you can't improve.


Or ignore all this crap, who knows if it's true......
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Old 05-24-03, 09:43 AM   #18
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No its not easy,that was part of the point,excuse me for not being more concise,it does take LOTS of miles to do that.Takes a long time too,on the otherhand best thing is to ride regularly even if its only an hr or so/day,most ppl can fit that in their schedules.Still like anything else in life,it takes dedication and work,IMHO thats why we have so many fat ppl,easy calorie rich lifestyle+no exercise and it isnt hard to be fat.....been there done that.Im not advocating anyone riding for a living,heck Id advise against it these days for most ppl,but I was using it as an illustration....it took me around 2yrs to lose 35 lbs,those last 10lbs or so dont come off easily.So is cycling good for losing weight,sure is,just takes awhile and lots of miles.....count calories and it will come off faster,is it the total solution,NO.....but its a piece of the puzzle.Lots of options for those with families and obligations....and its doubtful cycling can be the one and only source of primary exercise for most,a more well rounded approach will prob work better.But,in the end, it still comes down to lifestyle change(s).
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Old 05-24-03, 09:53 AM   #19
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The latest news from the world of kinesiology world is that the BMI is inaccurate for people with high amounts of muscle mass... even the BMI wouldn't help if you're trying to figure out how overweight you are if you have a high proportion of muscle.

If you really want to find out how fit you are, the best tests will be your bone density test, an underwater weighing analysis, and a skinfold caliper test that took measurements from at least 6 sites on the body.

It is true that the type of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers you have is to a large part, a genetic factor. However, with people who have more slow twitch than muscle twitch fibers, they can work on getting their slow twitch fibers more efficient, and they can work to stimulate as many of their fast twitch fibers as possible.

At the end of the day, as you get older, the amount of fast twitch muscle fibers decreases with age (will quote the studies introduced at the latest convention I went to a few weeks ago with the information since I'm at work right now). At this point, the best thing you can do is exercise that will at least allow those lost fast twitch muscle fibers to develop into slow twitch fibers, then work on keeping the maximum amount of slow twitch fibers operating at maximum effort.

In N C's case, if he wants to get faster, it's a combination of many factors- among them being overweight and needing to work on cadence to bring up his speed. Also, it would be good to work on power output too, but as it's a bit too late in the season to really develop this (assuming you're on a training program), the best thing he can do is work on dropping a few pounds and some cadence drills. Try some intervals- like 3 times a week varying heart rate from 70- 85% heart rate max. Do one day of hill work if you've got hills in there, and take a day or two for tempo training.

Get the nutrition under control. In most cases, it's like being a cook- you have to figure out what works for you with the amount of fitness work you're doing. Keep it healthy and and don't overeat. Drink a lot of water too.

Doing all that, the weight will come off slowly, but surely over time. And measure progress by how loose your clothes get and how much better you feel, rather than getting on the scale. The scale is a scary, psychological tool that can really mess up your mind, man.

Koff
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