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-   -   Hydraulic shifting.. (http://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/28250-hydraulic-shifting.html)

fubar5 05-28-03 06:19 AM

Hydraulic shifting..
 
I know I read somewhere there was some little company that had a hydro shifting design. However, it never went into production and the company went down, along with the patent.

Have any of you guys heard of hydraulic shifting?

fubar5 05-28-03 12:50 PM

hmmmm. I can't find it on alltheweb or google so far.

khuon 05-28-03 12:53 PM

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=28

RacerX 05-28-03 12:56 PM

Shimano and Campy are developing electronic shifting so that is the future of shift design

John E 05-28-03 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RacerX
Shimano and Campy are developing electronic shifting so that is the future of shift design
I have heard rumors to that effect, as well. I am confident "shift by wire" will precede "brake by wire" by MANY years. Electronic shifting does open up some very interesting ergonomic control opportunities.

Automakers are just now embracing "throttle-by-wire"; there is no gas pedal cable on my Passat.

khuon 05-28-03 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John E

Automakers are just now embracing "throttle-by-wire"; there is no gas pedal cable on my Passat.

I remember that the Aeromotive Vector cars had brake and throttle by wire. Actually as I recall, they didn't have a gas pedal at all. They had a jet fighter style power lever/throttle for HOTAS-like operation. I guess that would be Hands On Throttle And Steering (wheel)?

a2psyklnut 05-28-03 02:14 PM

Mavic developed the Mek-Tronic shifting which was a wireless system. My wife has it on her Road bike. Initial set-up was a big pain in the arse, but once working, it's been great.

However, this was only for the rear derailleur, the front is still cable actuated.

I'd be sweet if both were wireless.

L8R

ngateguy 05-28-03 02:17 PM

I saw electronic gearing on a Bianchi Beach Cruiser a couple of years ago at a bike shop on Pacific Beach in San Deigo I think it was a 3 speed internal hub system but I am not sure, my question was why? just seems like more things to go wrong.

ngateguy 05-28-03 02:22 PM

Just went to Bianchi and found they offer their Milano with automatic electronic push button shifting. I am not closed minded about it but it seems it maybe a littel to much on the "gadget side" http://www.bianchiusa.com/site/bikes...to_Milano.html

khuon 05-28-03 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ngateguy
Just went to Bianchi and found they offer their Milano with automatic electronic push button shifting. I am not closed minded about it but it seems it maybe a littel to much on the "gadget side" http://www.bianchiusa.com/site/bikes...to_Milano.html
I saw a review about the Milano Auto-D combination about 4 years ago. A lot of people found it to be a fun bike... even hardcore riders. This isn't a bike to be riding around on dressed in lycra and Sidis while in a pace-ine. We're talking cut-offs, t-shirts and flip-flops here. FWIW, the Shimano Nexus Auto-D has proven itself to be fairly mature and reliable technology.

Kev 05-28-03 02:35 PM

I think the main concern will be what happens if something fails.. If a derailleur cable fails you can limp home.. if shifter fails you can limp home.. if this is electronic what happens if a circuit fails? Will it just jump around on the gears.. Longevity would be another concern.. cost another..

RacerX 05-28-03 02:37 PM

Here's the Record electric system. Wired to avoid interference problems
It's on cyclingnews.com

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...elec/CN029.jpg
Battery

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...elec/CN028.jpg
front derailleur

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...elec/CN018.jpg
rear derailleur

ngateguy 05-28-03 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by khuon
I saw a review about the Milano Auto-D combination about 4 years ago. A lot of people found it to be a fun bike... even hardcore riders. This isn't a bike to be riding around on dressed in lycra and Sidis while in a pace-ine. We're talking cut-offs, t-shirts and flip-flops here. FWIW, the Shimano Nexus Auto-D has proven itself to be fairly mature and reliable technology.
Now it looks like I am going to have to buy a 4th bike! Lets see Road/ touring for the long trips, hybrid for commuting, MTB for commuting/off road, and now a beach cruiser for the beach and errand running. Anyone want to buy a Ford Ranger 4x4? I better find a bigger place to live. :) on the Auto shift any of you try out the Remington yet I was looking at one at the Bike expo to long of a wait to test drive. The Automatic for running errands could be good

John E 05-28-03 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kev
I think the main concern will be what happens if something fails.. If a derailleur cable fails you can limp home.. if shifter fails you can limp home.. if this is electronic what happens if a circuit fails? Will it just jump around on the gears...
By far the most likely point of failure is the power transistor (or its bypass capacitor) which drives the derailleur motor. If this transistor or the motor were to burn out, you would suddenly be left shiftless, in the gear you had most recently selected. If something truly bizarre happens to the servo control logic, you can simply disconnect the battery. Neither of these scenarios should be any scarier than snapping a gear cable (been there, done that many times, in my old Huret Allvit days).

I am still contemplating how I would set up the man-machine interface, since it would be very easy to wire several control buttons in parallel, to provide gear control in each of the 5 or 6 common hand positions on the drop bars or brake hoods.

Rev.Chuck 05-28-03 07:46 PM

Giant offers a computer shifted "auto" bike.
A company, Brown?, made an electronic shift front, it was not a der. but actually gated over the special chain rings like a train changing tracks.
Cables are cheap easy to adjust and reliable.

Kev 05-28-03 07:53 PM

That is a interesting point, you could realy tweak a electrical system and have alot of fun :)

fubar5 05-28-03 07:57 PM

Hydraulic shifting would be kinda tough I think.

I couldnn't get the weight weenies site to come up earlier..now it's working, cool site.

ngateguy 05-28-03 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rev.Chuck
Giant offers a computer shifted "auto" bike.
A company, Brown?, made an electronic shift front, it was not a der. but actually gated over the special chain rings like a train changing tracks.
Cables are cheap easy to adjust and reliable.

You know I think it was Browning, not Remington (Both gun names maybe I confused them) that had the automatic bike at the expo it is supposed to be pretty good better than the one with the stupid infomercial

jim-bob 05-28-03 08:33 PM

it was the "BEAST" : Browning Electronic Automatic Shifting Transmission, or something of the sort. Suntour licensed it.

Details can be found here : http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/articles/browning.html

ngateguy 05-28-03 08:37 PM

Fubar I was reading the weight weenie site about the hydrolic shifters and they mentioned it as a use for a sealed system for MTB is that why you are interested? if so I saw a sealed system in the Colorado Cyclist catalog that wasn't to expensive

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/commo...573&TextMode=0

khuon 05-29-03 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ngateguy
You know I think it was Browning, not Remington (Both gun names maybe I confused them) that had the automatic bike at the expo it is supposed to be pretty good better than the one with the stupid infomercial
The Browning system has been around a while and is also a fairly proven design. You might be happy to know that they're also a local (to the Seattle area) company and are used on some fairly reputable brands such as Rodriguez (also a local builder) bikes. I think the biggest downside to the Browning system was its weight. But that's a non-issue when applied to the comfort/cruiser/commuter/utility bike types. Here's a link to Browning's official webpage.

http://www.browningcomponent.com/products.php

MichaelW 05-29-03 02:27 AM

Could hydraulic braking and shifting share the same hydraulic cable, with some kind of valve/signal filtering to stop braking shifting the gears, or am I being stupid?

I like the idea of multiple gear shifter controls. Mavic supplied a couple of the push-button pair controls, which was really great for aerobar users.

Rev.Chuck 05-29-03 08:07 PM

Having one hydralic line with the valving to let you use it for both shifting and braking would be complex. The best way to do it would be to have a pump running off the bicycles drive system to constantly pressurize the system, with a pressure accumulator to keep pressure up when stopping. Then you would need a set of electrically controlled actuators, the brake units would need to be a type that would allow modulation and the shift units would need to be momentary on so each click would shift only one gear and not shift all the way over. I think I can build you a prototype for about $20,000 to $30,000

closetbiker 05-29-03 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a2psyklnut
Mavic developed the Mek-Tronic shifting which was a wireless system.
I remember Mavic having an electric shifting system back in the 80's. It was discontinued because (I think) of reliability problems.


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