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  1. #1
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    Geometry experiment: Final Specs.

    About 1.5 or so months I was planning to build my own frame w/ my own specs. There were a lot of adjustments along the way as I did some experiments(on paper only).

    Now I am finish building the frame and already applied the first coat(paint). I guess it is safe to say that these are the final specs..

    Just for info. I am 5'6" tall and have a 76cm inseam.

    Here are the final specs:
    TopTube(c-c) 54cm
    SeatTube(c-c) 47cm SeatTube angle: 74 deg.
    DownTube(c-c) 59cm
    Headtube length 12cm Headtube angle: 73 deg.
    Chainstay (c-t) 41cm
    Seatstay (c-t) 46cm
    BB height 27cm
    Standover height 73cm
    Fork rake: 43mm LOOK HSC4
    Wheelbase(using above) 97cm

    Other specs:
    Stem (c-c): 8cm @ 10deg (neg. rise)
    Seatpost rise: 16cm (seatpost is machined so it can't be adjusted)

    Below is a scaled(1/10) drawing..
    Last edited by dexmax; 05-29-03 at 09:42 PM.

  2. #2
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    I really wanted to build the frame with a classic geometry(horizontal TT), but unfortunately I discovered the limits of the classic geometry. Which doesn't allow frames smaller than 49cm, simply because the Headtube would be so short, too short..

    So instead, I made a "semi compact" frame. Specs are in between the two(almost, at least).

    I have not sat on the saddle yet. Everything was based on calculations(stem and Seatpost). The seatpost is machined to a specific height.. If my calculations are correct, it should fit me perfectly(i hope).

  3. #3
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    Dude, are you sure you want your seatpost to be unadjustable?

    When I changed frames...I had to add a couple of millimeters to my seat height...must have been because the new frame had a slacker seat tube angle.

    What I'm saying here is, you might regret not having an adjustable seatpost. 1 millimeter is a big difference!
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

  4. #4
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    yes, i would like to get an "adjustable seatpost".

    But only if the seatpost won't fit... I'm confident it would... (Call it, the challenge.. I always challenge my computations, and see if I still got it... I used to compute clearances for bearings and shafts, of course I was equipped w/ CNC lathes to be very precise)

    Anyway, if I miss I always have the option of an adjustable seatpost...

    Thanks..

    BTW, what happened to you're old frame.. was it a colnago?
    Last edited by dexmax; 05-29-03 at 09:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Inoplanetyanin's Avatar
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    Looks and sounds good. This is pretty unusual.
    Would like to know how it does when you are finished.
    May I ask, what were the main reasons to build your own frame? Not the money I suppose?

  6. #6
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    My old frame was a locally made custom...it was only painted to look like a Colnago. Compared to my new one, I find the only one to be "noodly" but I will eventually put back the 105 components I took from it IF I am able to upgrade to Ultegra. I'l attach a picture of it here.

    BTW, seat height may also need adjusting whenever you change pedal systems.
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

  7. #7
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Inoplanetyanin
    Looks and sounds good. This is pretty unusual.
    Would like to know how it does when you are finished.
    May I ask, what were the main reasons to build your own frame? Not the money I suppose?
    I'm having problems getting small frames..

    And, it is fun to experiment.. This is not my first frame that i built(i had built recumbents in the past).
    But this is the first road frame I built(I designed it and had someone else build it, i'm not a very good welder).

    By the way, I don't sell frames

    I always had the option of getting a custom frame, but these cost between $900-$1500; too expensive if you ask me, or get a Giant frame for about $200-$300, or even a generic(Giant) frame for about $80.

    But, you can get old frames w/ good tubesets(columbus, reynolds, etc.) very cheap. These frames are either unsalable, because they are too big, or (used frame)has been damaged due to a crash, etc.

    Normally, I get the biggest frame I can find(so I have longer tubes to work on). So, you can get a custom steel(cromo) frame w/ almost the same tubing as that of 1000 dollar frames...

    Isn't that exciting!
    Last edited by dexmax; 05-29-03 at 10:58 PM.

  8. #8
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    Hey Dexmax, you're a framebuilder pala!

    Do you know Ave Maldea of Cainta, Rizal? He is the most popular framebuilder here in Manila. He makes chro mo frames out of Tange Prestige tubing. The frames are pretty light compared to my old frameset.

    Also, do you know Medy? He is another popular frame painter who lives near me here in Makati. His Colnago painjobs are awesome..they look real. One frame paint job costs just P2000. Not bad I'd say. I'll have my old frame re-painted by Medy..unless the rumor is true that he has contracted lung cancer because he doesn;t wear a mask when painting.

    What type of paintjob do you plan to give your new frame?
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

  9. #9
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    No, i'm no frame builder.. It just turned out that my love for bikes fit my profession. Design is my specialized field, I'm an MechEngr.. I lack the skills of a good welder, and an experienced painter, but I can still work my calculator...

    Paint is one thing.. Decals make the best of it...

    I know someone who paints bikes here.. quality is awesome. He is using urethane on mine. Since we are friends, he only charges 1000pesos(about $20). (COLOR: Titanium/Carbon Black)

    Decals are done with a computer and plotter. I usually make my own designs(we(carlee and me owns a shop) are in the PC, Internet and Communication Business). Because of these plotter cut decals, decal quality is awesome. And because it is done with a computer, I can take a pic of the original decals and reproduce it.

    before spraying on the top coat(clear) we stick the decals on the frame. This makes the decals seem imbedded unto the coat. And decals are protected. We only use vynil because, according to the manufacturer, it won't fade -- but don't beleive it.

    PS. Sorry, I don't know those guys... And I havent seen thier work yet, did they do your colnago?

  10. #10
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Altwegg
    Hey Dexmax, you're a framebuilder pala!

    Do you know Ave Maldea of Cainta, Rizal? He is the most popular framebuilder here in Manila. He makes chro mo frames out of Tange Prestige tubing. The frames are pretty light compared to my old frameset.

    Also, do you know Medy? He is another popular frame painter who lives near me here in Makati. His Colnago painjobs are awesome..they look real. One frame paint job costs just P2000. Not bad I'd say. I'll have my old frame re-painted by Medy..unless the rumor is true that he has contracted lung cancer because he doesn;t wear a mask when painting.

    What type of paintjob do you plan to give your new frame?
    Speaking of good paint jobs.. Have you ever seen a fake Ksyrium? I did, I saw one in pampanga. if you compare it with the Original Ksyrium, you can hardly see the difference. The replicas are of high quality too.. The only thing that makes you wonder is, where do they get those MAVIC hubs... Does Mavic sell them seprately?
    They sell it(ksyrium) for about 2000-3000/pair(excluding the hubs, cheap, dba?)..

  11. #11
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    WHOA! I have NEVER heard of FAKE wheelsets! That;s new! Hmm...are they made here ot in Taiwan? I would not want risking my life on a set of fake wheels...who knows..they could fall apart anytime! I doubt that those hubs are original MAvic FTS hubs!

    can you post a picture of the fake ksyriums?
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

  12. #12
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Altwegg
    WHOA! I have NEVER heard of FAKE wheelsets!
    Yeah, that's new to me too although I guess I ought not to be too surprised. I suppose this begs the question of how one would go about verifying they had an authentic wheelset... or any other component for that matter. Weight? X-ray? Bite into it?
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  13. #13
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Altwegg
    WHOA! I have NEVER heard of FAKE wheelsets! That;s new! Hmm...are they made here ot in Taiwan? I would not want risking my life on a set of fake wheels...who knows..they could fall apart anytime! I doubt that those hubs are original MAvic FTS hubs!

    can you post a picture of the fake ksyriums?
    on the contrary, those wheelsets are of high quality(the rims at least, don't know about the hubs). The rims were definitely not ksyriums, but were of another less superoir brand(alex i think). They were repainted to appear as ksyriums.. they also do cosmos, spinergy, etc...

    Sorry, but i wasn't able to take pictures of it.

  14. #14
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    Ah..Alex rims are not really "inferior"...they also happen to make the rims that Shimano uses for their wheelsets.

    Do you have the contact numbers of the guys whomake these wheels?

    P3000 is awefully cheap for a wheelset. If they are light and strong, I think that they would be a good buy!
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

  15. #15
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    Originally posted by khuon
    Yeah, that's new to me too although I guess I ought not to be too surprised. I suppose this begs the question of how one would go about verifying they had an authentic wheelset... or any other component for that matter. Weight? X-ray? Bite into it?
    Hmmm, most wheelsets come in their own box. I doubt the makers of these fake wheels will still go the extra mile and make copies of mavic packaging.
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

  16. #16
    road siklista dexmax's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Altwegg
    Hmmm, most wheelsets come in their own box. I doubt the makers of these fake wheels will still go the extra mile and make copies of mavic packaging.
    No, I think I misled you.. You have to have them made(painted) and after a week or so, they arrive... as said by the owner(fake ksyrium).

    I know someone(only by first name) who had this. We compared it to the original ksyrium -- if you don't look closely, you won't notice the difference.

    PS: I think these are old reconditioned hubs and rims.. A used rim painted black will look good as new(as long as it has not been damaged). And a used hub, repacked and painted will also look new. I think these explains the high quality and why these are so cheap (I mentioned that they also do Spinergy, etc.). Too cheap to be true, aint it? (to all: 3000 pesos = $56 US)

    altwegg
    BTW, you can ask your framebuilder if he knows who does these rims. I personally would like one. Who wouldn't? Money is tight!
    Last edited by dexmax; 05-30-03 at 03:33 AM.

  17. #17
    Chick Magnet on wheels
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    Dexmax,

    I'll ask my friends to ask Ave when they see him! Do try to come to the race on June 8..it'll be loads of fun! last year, I was dropped..so I want to redeem myself this year! hehehe
    The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war

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