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Thread: lock question

  1. #1
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    lock question

    I have a trek 1000 (new) with the quick release wheels. Would this http://www.westernbikeworks.com/prod...il.asp?p=ONBDU give me protection to do a sheldon lock and use the cable to secure the front wheel and possibly helmet? It is for errands and 3-4 hours on campus (big uni lots of people day time only bike theft probably not that bad here).

    Do many of you leave your u-locks on bike racks?

    Thanks for the advice.

  2. #2
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Most people do the Sheldon thing with a mini U. With a full-size U like that,you can just pop the front wheel off and lock it with the rear Sheldon-style. You'll prolly even have enough room to slide the shackle through one of the vents in the helmet shell and lock it in there too.

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    Self-locking bike

    I use a self-locking bike:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dMUCiZDug

    Very convenient, because the bike frame itself is a lock; not for sale, though.

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    I didn't even notice it was and I wanted a mini, nice catch. The on-guard are cheaper then kryptonite but on-guard offers more bike protection $ for their locks and seem to be the same security wise.

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    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    I've had problems with Onguard locks freezing up. It has happened to 3 of them.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    What do you mean freezing up? The key won't unlock?
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

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    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
    What do you mean freezing up? The key won't unlock?
    Exactly. One was completely frozen and the others could only be opened by whacking the lock with a hammer.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Wow. Which models were these?
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikelock
    I use a self-locking bike:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dMUCiZDug

    Very convenient, because the bike frame itself is a lock; not for sale, though.

    Ahh cool idea coming from Palo Alto!! When are you going to produce these?
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Thank you for providing that link. Glad the new one worked out for you.

    It IS funny though that Dana got an acct to represent herself!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
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    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

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    I've been content with Kryptonite locks personally, and have had good luck with being able to open the lock whenever I needed to. However, I do use Teflon oil about once or twice a year in the cylinder, as preventative maintainence, and the weather where I am isn't extreme by any means.

    For most places, using locking skewers on both wheels and the seatpost binder bolt, then using a U-lock Sheldon Brown style should be sufficient. However, in a number of areas, I'd go with mechBgon's method.

    As for the self locking bike frame, +1. I'd love to see that more deployed, but I'd like to see three main feature improvements:

    1: Ditch the round key lock. Please. Every kid knows the Bic pen trick. Replace the lock with a Medeco removable core, or preferably a high quality Abloy type mechanism with detainer discs, which is simple, but extremely pick resistant, and can deal with almost all weather conditions.
    2: Have the lock be rekeyable, so one can sell the bike to another, and the buyer isn't stuck knowing the bike can be opened by people out there.
    3: Have a very solid latching mechanism, that is designed to keep people from prying it open, but also factor in the stresses from bike riding, stresses a frame has to take for safety reasons. For example, the key should never be allowed to be removed from the lock unless the lock is drawn closed and locked.

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    There are hundreds of bike locks on the market. Only a few are rated "gold" or "silver" after testing by "Sold Secure". Fewer get top marks after testing by the editors of "Cycling Plus".

    "Silver" rated locks sell for as little as $30 and "gold" rated locks sell for as little as $50. It is silly to lock up a $700 bike with a "bargain" lock that has not been certified by independent testing.

    In the May 2007 issue of "Cycling Plus", the editors say their tests of the Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit u-lock indicate it is the toughest u-lock they have ever seen. Totally unbreakable using manual tools. If a Fahgettaboudit is combined with the "Sheldon Brown" method, your rear wheel and frame are as safe as they can possibly be.

    The editors of "Cycling Plus" invest more time and resources in their annual lock tests than anyone else in the cycling community. Folks can support their efforts by buying a copy of the May "Cycling Plus", sold at bookstores such as Borders Books, Barnes & Noble, and larger magazine stores. The $8 USA price is a bargain for the quantity and quality of information in each issue.

    The correct way to lock a bike is with a compact u-lock around the rear wheel, just behind the seat tube, connecting the wheel to a beefy steel pole that is set in concrete. Do NOT put the lock around any part of the frame, as that encourages crooks to attempt to use your frame as a lever to break the lock, destroying the frame. A light u-lock, or good cable lock can be used to connect the front wheel to the frame. I replace the quick release on the front wheel with a bolt-on skewer, for extra protection.

    Don't use the "standard" design "front wheel over the bar" college campus racks. Most are so flimsy that the locking rails can be pulled out with your hand. The side frame poles are stronger, but often are held on with one or two easy to remove bolts. And, those "standard" school racks don't allow use of the "Sheldon Brown" locking method.

    www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    There are hundreds of bike locks on the market. Only a few are rated "gold" or "silver" after testing by "Sold Secure". Fewer get top marks after testing by the editors of "Cycling Plus".

    "Silver" rated locks sell for as little as $30 and "gold" rated locks sell for as little as $50. It is silly to lock up a $700 bike with a "bargain" lock that has not been certified by independent testing.

    In the May 2007 issue of "Cycling Plus", the editors say their tests of the Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit u-lock indicate it is the toughest u-lock they have ever seen. Totally unbreakable using manual tools. If a Fahgettaboudit is combined with the "Sheldon Brown" method, your rear wheel and frame are as safe as they can possibly be.

    The editors of "Cycling Plus" invest more time and resources in their annual lock tests than anyone else in the cycling community. Folks can support their efforts by buying a copy of the May "Cycling Plus", sold at bookstores such as Borders Books, Barnes & Noble, and larger magazine stores. The $8 USA price is a bargain for the quantity and quality of information in each issue.

    The correct way to lock a bike is with a compact u-lock around the rear wheel, just behind the seat tube, connecting the wheel to a beefy steel pole that is set in concrete. Do NOT put the lock around any part of the frame, as that encourages crooks to attempt to use your frame as a lever to break the lock, destroying the frame. A light u-lock, or good cable lock can be used to connect the front wheel to the frame. I replace the quick release on the front wheel with a bolt-on skewer, for extra protection.

    Don't use the "standard" design "front wheel over the bar" college campus racks. Most are so flimsy that the locking rails can be pulled out with your hand. The side frame poles are stronger, but often are held on with one or two easy to remove bolts. And, those "standard" school racks don't allow use of the "Sheldon Brown" locking method.

    www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
    Actually the article says that "the (Abus) Granit X Plus is the best designed U-lock we've ever tested".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas
    Actually the article says that "the (Abus) Granit X Plus is the best designed U-lock we've ever tested".
    Yes, Abus makes well designed locks. However, Abus locks are difficult to find in the USA. In the May test, there was a clear winner. It was Kryptonite. The editors said "The Fahgettaboudit Mini is the stiffest, toughest lock we've ever put to the sword..."

    The Fahgettaboudit is simply NOT gonna get broken using the manual tools typically used by crooks. Breaking the Fahgettaboudit will require noisy power tools, which, obviously, will open any lock. Luckily, even in crime capitals such as Houston, the use of high powered cutting tools to steal a bike is very rare.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    The Fahgettaboudit is simply NOT gonna get broken using the manual tools typically used by crooks. Breaking the Fahgettaboudit will require noisy power tools, which, obviously, will open any lock. Luckily, even in crime capitals such as Houston, the use of high powered cutting tools to steal a bike is very rare.
    +1 We've got a tremendous bike theft problem here in Portland, and it's nearly all bikes that have been left unlocked, improperly locked, or locked with a cable. I just don't hear of bikes getting stolen here when they are locked properly with a decent U-lock. I've also never seen an Abus lock for sale here. I understand Kryptonite is going to be launching a big advert campaign soon. As much as I'm not into commercialism, I actually think they will be doing a great service if they can convince the general public (i.e. non-geeks) that cable locks are bad news.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

  17. #17
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    Yes, Abus makes well designed locks. However, Abus locks are difficult to find in the USA. In the May test, there was a clear winner. It was Kryptonite. The editors said "The Fahgettaboudit Mini is the stiffest, toughest lock we've ever put to the sword..."

    The Fahgettaboudit is simply NOT gonna get broken using the manual tools typically used by crooks. Breaking the Fahgettaboudit will require noisy power tools, which, obviously, will open any lock. Luckily, even in crime capitals such as Houston, the use of high powered cutting tools to steal a bike is very rare.
    Neither the Abus or the Kryptonite lock are going to be broken using manual tools. That aside, people from all over the world read these forums, so one mustn't tailor things just for a US audience.

    In Europe for example, the Abus lock is much less expensive than the Kryptonite, making the Abus a better choice for the consumer.

    Another thing to consider with the Kryptonite is that it is tiny, and finding a place to lock up to might be difficult with such a small lock. For those in the State the Kryptonite New York 3000 has a wider shackle which makes it much more user friendly in terms of where to lock up to.
    Last edited by Ziemas; 05-19-07 at 11:36 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
    The Fahgettaboudit is simply NOT gonna get broken using the manual tools typically used by crooks. Breaking the Fahgettaboudit will require noisy power tools, which, obviously, will open any lock. Luckily, even in crime capitals such as Houston, the use of high powered cutting tools to steal a bike is very rare.
    100% false.

    A Fagheddabouit and any other chain lock can be opened in under a minute with a manual bolt cutter.

    Edit: Ah what the hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3hFr8p2ck

    Combine this video with niestat brothers NYC lock breaking video and you have a recipe for a stolen bike. Just wait till crooks see this video. The krypto is chopped at the end of the video. Now before you bring out the "crooks aren't going to carry that sort of bolt cutter" around, think how much damage 2 pieces of pipe and a smaller bolt cutter will do.

    You can stop posting clearly false information now.
    Last edited by operator; 05-20-07 at 06:59 AM.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator
    100% false.

    A Fagheddabouit and any other chain lock can be opened in under a minute with a manual bolt cutter.

    Edit: Ah what the hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3hFr8p2ck

    Combine this video with niestat brothers NYC lock breaking video and you have a recipe for a stolen bike. Just wait till crooks see this video. The krypto is chopped at the end of the video. Now before you bring out the "crooks aren't going to carry that sort of bolt cutter" around, think how much damage 2 pieces of pipe and a smaller bolt cutter will do.

    You can stop posting clearly false information now.
    You do realize that we are discussing U-locks, not chain locks, don't you?



    And here is what Kryptonite has to say about that video:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptonite blog
    Rumor Patrol

    We hear lots of rumors as we are out and about on the road and cruising through the internet. Some make us just laugh out loud, shake our head or roll our eyes. Others we take a little more seriously. Over the last couple of months, we’ve noticed that one particular video on YouTube has been getting conversations going about security chains.

    Recently, our friend Fritz, asked us if we’d seen the video yet and added his comments to a blog that posted the video. Since you asked, we’ll be more than happy to address this, Fritz!

    Yes, we have seen the video of a competitor breaking security chains. It’s one that doesn’t have us laughing out loud, but it does have us rolling our eyes a little bit. Listen to the woman as she introduces the last two chains, of which the supposed New York Fahgettaboudit is one. She plainly states that the last two chains “aren’t brand new. They were kindly donated by Visadown users.” (I may have that name wrong)

    The Kryptonite ‘lock’ does not have a lock on it at all. It’s a length of chain in a Kryptonite sleeve that even the women from our competitor can not say is a length of Kryptonite chain because she didn’t purchase it from a dealer. However, that’s neither here nor there - when the gentleman shows the link after he’s cut it, check it out, pause the video like we did (7:07 into the video). It doesn’t look like a 6-sided Fahgettaboudit link, more like a 4-sided link. Hmmm…if that’s not right, what else isn’t right with that video?

    We are much more apt to trust truly non-biased testers who have honest to goodness Kryptonite products to test, like Cycling Plus. We also submit our products to test with independent testing agencies like Sold Secure, ART and a host of others. They aren’t competitors, testing is what they do for insurance companies. They are unbiased parties testing the products for a living. They are good at it, just like the guys at Cycling Plus.
    http://unbreakable-bonds.blogspot.co...or-patrol.html
    Last edited by Ziemas; 05-20-07 at 07:20 AM.

  20. #20
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    If you cannot afford to have the bike stolen it is a bad choice to run errands with. At some point you will screw up and chain it to something that is not secure, or you will forget to lock it properly.

    Consider reducing the value of the bike with removable pedals and taking the seat with you. You can also take the QRs with you.

    I would use allen key skewers instead of QR. Stealing a front wheel alone is fairly rare.

    If selling the bike is unthinkable, etch your name and cell# on various parts.
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    Operator, you have a remarkable lack of knowledge about how to properly test a lock. If you think the nonsense posted on "YouBoobs) is valid proof of anything, you ought to look at their video of President Bush making out with Hillary Clinton.

    Soldsecure and Cycling Plus editors test and retest locks using every tool known to be used on the streets by real crooks. They do these tests year after year, and they know a bit more about testing locks than just about anybody around. Certainly, far, far more than a guy who believes what he sees on "YouBoobs".

    Both Soldsecure and Cycling Plus have obtained identical results with the best Kryptonite locks (such as the New York u-lock and the Fahgettaboudit u-lock). Those locks are unbreakable using commonly used manual tools on a properly locked bikes. Period.

    Try this, IF you actually are interested in the facts. Put a good Kryptonite u-lock (a New York lock or Fahgettaboudit) around the rear wheel of a bike and around a beefy (two inch across) steel post set in concrete. Now, break that u-lock using any manual tool. Use a crowbar, bolt-cutters, hacksaw, a hammer, or any tool you can find. Try the "YouBoobs" method you are bragging about.

    Guess what? In a hour, you are gonna be sweating and cursing. And, that lock is still going to be locked.

    Of course, a lock alone is not enough. You should also use strategy. I like to park my 1986 Trek (current value: $200), next to someone else's new $2,000 Cannondale that is secured with only a cable lock. Guess which bike a crook is gonna take?

    You don't have to run faster than the bear, just a bit faster than the other guys that the bear is chasing.
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 05-20-07 at 11:58 AM.

  22. #22
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    The New York 3000 U is plenty good. Nothing & i mean nothing is theft proof.

  23. #23
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    I'd just buy a NY lock from Kryptonite, or similar from Onguard, get Pitlocks to protect the wheels, brakes, stem/fork, and seat, and call it done.

    Then, depending on the level of security, use SB's locking method, or have a chain lock as addition, and use mechBgon's, locking both wheels and frame (preferably to separate objects). If you lock to a rack frequently, you can always leave one lock hanging on the rack so the only lock you need to ride with would be the U lock.

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