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Old 07-02-07, 01:10 PM   #1
CdCf
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New disc brake - so pleased!

So, after a few scary moments with close to zero braking power in wet conditions with my old v-brakes, I decided to upgrade one of my bikes* with an Avid BB7 8" disc brake. Had the fork already, but had to build a new wheel to get a disc hub. Finished the wheel Saturday, went for a very short test ride Sunday (yesterday) to make sure it worked ok, and it did.

And today, I got the first opportunity to try it out in the rain. What a difference!!! Perfect braking at all times, with no squeal at all. And the difference in modulation is shocking!

I'm so pleased with it all! I never dreamed that disc brakes could be that much better. And trust me, I had the old brakes set up properly, so that wasn't the issue.



* SS conversion of alu MTB frame, drop bar, Dia-Compe 287-V brake levers, Conti 26x1.6" SportContact tyres.
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Old 07-02-07, 02:18 PM   #2
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Been getting a lot of rain there the last weeks?
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Old 07-02-07, 02:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdCf
So, after a few scary moments with close to zero braking power in wet conditions with my old v-brakes, I decided to upgrade one of my bikes* with an Avid BB7 8" disc brake. Had the fork already, but had to build a new wheel to get a disc hub. Finished the wheel Saturday, went for a very short test ride Sunday (yesterday) to make sure it worked ok, and it did.

And today, I got the first opportunity to try it out in the rain. What a difference!!! Perfect braking at all times, with no squeal at all. And the difference in modulation is shocking!

I'm so pleased with it all! I never dreamed that disc brakes could be that much better. And trust me, I had the old brakes set up properly, so that wasn't the issue.



* SS conversion of alu MTB frame, drop bar, Dia-Compe 287-V brake levers, Conti 26x1.6" SportContact tyres.
So much better than rim brakes whatever the weather.
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Old 07-02-07, 03:16 PM   #4
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Welcome to the dark side.
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Old 07-02-07, 03:43 PM   #5
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Been getting a lot of rain there the last weeks?
Hehe, yeah...
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Old 07-02-07, 06:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdCf
So, after a few scary moments with close to zero braking power in wet conditions with my old v-brakes, I decided to upgrade one of my bikes* with an Avid BB7 8" disc brake. Had the fork already, but had to build a new wheel to get a disc hub. Finished the wheel Saturday, went for a very short test ride Sunday (yesterday) to make sure it worked ok, and it did.


* SS conversion of alu MTB frame, drop bar, Dia-Compe 287-V brake levers, Conti 26x1.6" SportContact tyres.
You do of course know that not all forks are designed to handle the stresses that an 8" rotor can put on them right? In fact, many actually come with warnings NOT to use such a big rotor. The rule of thumb is - No thru axle, No 8" rotor.
I'm guessing you bought the 8" out of the same paranoia that initially led you to want to mount both disc and a caliper brake to the same wheel.
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Old 07-02-07, 07:54 PM   #7
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Bullsh!t! Let's see the empirical evidence. There have been so many claims to this tale and yet no one has come up with the details. Wanna change my mind?
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Old 07-03-07, 01:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
You do of course know that not all forks are designed to handle the stresses that an 8" rotor can put on them right? In fact, many actually come with warnings NOT to use such a big rotor. The rule of thumb is - No thru axle, No 8" rotor.
I'm guessing you bought the 8" out of the same paranoia that initially led you to want to mount both disc and a caliper brake to the same wheel.
I bought the 8" because it gives lower "ejection forces" compared to a smaller disc. Not that I think it will be a problem for me, but just in case. Bigger is better anyway, and the the 8" was only $10 more than the 6".

The fork is a Surly Instigator, and if that monster can't handle that disc brake, I doubt any fork can...

Besides, this is a ROAD bike. I use it as a road bike/commuter. It will likely never see the kind of braking an offroader uses.

Frankly Raiyn, mind your own business. I don't know why you feel this need to attack me. If you don't agree, fine, but leave it at that
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Old 07-03-07, 07:40 AM   #9
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I put a avid road bb7 on my on Jake the Snake commuter, best upgrade i did to it. Huge difference trying to brake in the rain downhill with loaded panniers.
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Old 07-03-07, 05:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdCf
I bought the 8" because it gives lower "ejection forces" compared to a smaller disc. Not that I think it will be a problem for me, but just in case.
I'd love to hear how a brake that exerts more force could give "lower" ejection forces. Doesn't change the fact that not all forks are approved for use with 8" rotors and those that are aren't standard QRs
Quote:
Originally Posted by CdCf
The fork is a Surly Instigator, and if that monster can't handle that disc brake, I doubt any fork can...
I'll post the e-mail response from Surly later.
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Originally Posted by CdCf
Besides, this is a ROAD bike. I use it as a road bike/commuter. It will likely never see the kind of braking an offroader uses.
Which makes your choice of an 8" rotor out to be even more a case of overkill than I initially thought
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Originally Posted by CdCf
Frankly Raiyn, mind your own business. I don't know why you feel this need to attack me. If you don't agree, fine, but leave it at that
First you posted this in a public forum, so I can respond as I see fit within the guidelines set forth by the site. You claim I "attacked" (note the quotes) you by pointing out the overkill, noting the fact that not all forks are approved for use with 8" rotors, and recalling our earlier conversation in which you in fact demanded information on mounting both disc and rim brakes on the same wheel. A thread where you indeed did get defensive and irrationally ranted against those who told you that it was overkill.

It's a good thing you didn't have access to the V9 or we'd be hearing about how you mounted a 9" rotor on a road going bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
<censored> Let's see the empirical evidence. There have been so many claims to this tale and yet no one has come up with the details. Wanna change my mind?
Given your vast knowledge of disc brake systems... I don't think your tone is warranted.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml04/04522.html
http://www.dirtragmag.com/web/news-article.php?ID=201

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/...ake-compat.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Page_2_of _PDF
Note: Fork manufacturers often discourage the use of anything larger than a 185mm rotor on a standard quick-release.
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Old 07-03-07, 09:16 PM   #11
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I'm just shaking my head, wondering what's gone so wrong in your life that you've become what you've become. I honestly hoped that your time away would've changed you for the better, but you're your old self, if not worse.

And a larger rotor actually DOES give a lower ejection force compared to a smaller disc, for the same deceleration. That's one of the reasons to go with an 8".

Again, mind your own business. What I do with my bike is my business, not yours.
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Old 07-03-07, 11:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CdCf
Besides, this is a ROAD bike. I use it as a road bike/commuter. It will likely never see the kind of braking an offroader uses.
That depends.

If you live in an area where bikes can ride on sidewalks, then yeah. You'll have minimal braking going on. However, if you live in an area where bikes go on the road and must obey traffic laws, you'll probably do some really heavy breaking sometimes. There are plenty of stupid drivers. I was biking a few weeks ago, through an intersection. Some moron completely ran through a stopsign. I had two choices.

A) Continue going and die
or
B) Brake really, really hard.

I chose B. both tires locked up, burnt through the treads, and I fell off my bike. (Mt. bike, no cleats) Of course, that ******* didn't stop.

Life happens. =/



EDIT: Also, Raiyn is right. This is a public forum. Anyone can agree or disagree with you. You have the option to ignore or listen. However, if he's right, and you complain about the consequences.....

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Old 07-03-07, 11:52 PM   #13
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Raiyn is free to have an opinion, but he's gone out of his way to attack me in the past, way beyond just having an opinion. The first thread probably still exists somewhere.

But his opinion, in this case, is based on the typical use of such a brake, not how I'm using it.

I don't really care, but I wish he'd cool down a bit.
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Old 07-04-07, 05:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn

Interesting, no reports of failure or injury at any of those links.

I may not have the vast amount of hands on experience that you posess, but I do have a very logical mind. So, think this through with me, okay?

Going back the old debate of which provides more stopping power disc or v brakes. The answer is always if you can lock the wheel to skid or stoppie, the net effect is equal. Now, if we move the comparison to 6" vs 8" rotors and one can lock the front wheel to skid or stoppie with a 6" rotor, it will transfer X amount of force upon the Q/R. Moving up to an 8" rotor will again lock the front wheel to skid or stoppie and generate the same force on the Q/R.

Let's look at the CPSC notice. 250 units affected. Not many when you consider the total number of units brought to market.

What exactly is it that failed? "During heavy braking, the brake tabs on the front forks could break off, possibly causing a loss of control and fall from the bicycle." "Brake tabs"? That's what the caliper mounts to right? How would changing to a thru axle or a QR20 have any remedial effect on this?

Yeah, I may not be as familiar with the various disc brake set-ups as you. But I am savvy enough not to fall for some Chicken Little story based on some wild eyed claim of what 'could' happen.

Again, show me!
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Old 07-04-07, 05:37 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Raiyn
You do of course know that not all forks are designed to handle the stresses that an 8" rotor can put on them right?
Hi Raiyn - are you able to provide an engineering reasoning behind this assertion? My thoughts are that they are like the lawyer lips on the drop outs and for the vast majority of users and uses would pose no problems whatsoever.

As for me - I'll be going up to 8 inch rotors when my 6 inch rotors wear out - they're just sweet.
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Old 07-04-07, 04:54 PM   #16
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Consult your fork's manufacturer before you change to 8's
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Old 07-05-07, 06:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
You do of course know that not all forks are designed to handle the stresses that an 8" rotor can put on them right? In fact, many actually come with warnings NOT to use such a big rotor. The rule of thumb is - No thru axle, No 8" rotor.
I'm guessing you bought the 8" out of the same paranoia that initially led you to want to mount both disc and a caliper brake to the same wheel.
Wow CdCf, I really didn't see this as an attack. I've been thinking about going to discs on my bike and I think people were just trying to help. If you don't agree then just say thanks and ignore the person. (Hope you didn't find this too offensive and now you're going to hold it against me, I'm just saying that life is too short to get bent out of shape about this.)
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Old 07-05-07, 12:07 PM   #18
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I don't have a problem with people stating their opinion in a friendly and caring way, but Raiyn's condescending delivery - somewhat of a trademark for him - is what set me off. Together with our "history" in another thread in the past.
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Old 07-05-07, 01:39 PM   #19
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I ride a Tandem- An off road Tandem that is used aggressively. I had a Marzocchi Free Ride Fork when i used it with V Brakes, and had no Problems. Went to Disc brakes and contacted the Concessionaire who said there would be no problem using an 8" disc with this fork. Like hell- Hard braking and that fork was twisting all over the place. Got a set of Boxers with the bolt through axle and that is fine- No twisting of the fork on hard braking and No chance of the wheel being twisted out of the fork.

8" Discs put a lot of strain on any fork and a lot of twisting will go into that fork on hard braking.

Be Carefull.
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Old 07-05-07, 01:59 PM   #20
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One hell of a difference between an offroad tandem with two people on it and a road bike with a 145-lb rider. Your fork probably saw peak loads more than three times greater than mine will.
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Old 07-05-07, 08:03 PM   #21
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CdCf-Did you say you had BB7's? I'm thinking of getting them for my Trance because the V's heat up a bunch on long downhills, do you like them or looking back would you rather have hydos like the Juicys or Hopes?
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Old 07-05-07, 10:33 PM   #22
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I have read so many positive things about Avid's BB7 that no other mechanical disc brake was ever considered.

Mechanical was the only option, both because of the simplicity of installation and maintenance. But even if I wanted hydraulic brakes, I have drop bars, and I doubt there are any hydro brake levers for road bikes...

I'm very pleased with them so far. Been out on two dry and two wet rides. Other than an occasional short squeal in wet weather, braking performance seems identical in dry and wet. Which is what I wanted and needed.
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Old 07-06-07, 02:48 AM   #23
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They would be going on a MTB for me so brake levers aren't an issue but cost and ease of installation/maint is. I already have the cables in place so I should be able to just put longer cables on and the rest should bolt right in place. That is, of course, after getting a new wheelset. Thanks.
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Old 07-09-07, 03:03 PM   #24
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Apparently if you use a bolt on front axle Surly's are good to go. I hadn't considered that considering that most LBS level bikes are QR equipped. Here's the email as I received it (my information removed)
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Old 07-09-07, 03:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Mechanical was the only option, both because of the simplicity of installation and maintenance. .
i just learned how to maintain my juicy 3's the other week and really it was very very easy, i wouldn't ever let the maintainance side of things stop me using hydraulics, it really is very simple to bleed and adjust them.....
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