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  1. #1
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    new guy has 2 easy questions

    i'm on the younger end of the boomer generation, and am beginning to show signs of age creeping up on me in blood pressure, cholesterol, and triglycerides though i'm fairly active...

    soooo..... doc has suggested i take up cycling... after about 25 years or so...

    i looked around a while and finally settled on a 2 wheeler by trek... and i like it lots better than the bikes i used as a younger person...

    while riding, i'm thinking...

    questions one: what's wrong with fenders? i bought a trek 7100 and asked for fenders, cuz i ride in the country where theres lots of potholes and manure from the Amish horses that pull their buggies around the neighborhood... the owner of the store acted surprised, but willing to order them, his cronies, or disciples, or whatever you call the crowd that hang around the bike shop kinda snickered... not really appreciated here and i made that known as i'm not one to put up with that stuff... you do your thing, i'll do mine... and don't butt in as long as its not hurting anybody... and i got over my vanity a long time ago...

    question two: as a younger person... the type of bicyle you rode didn't seem to be that important... it was a tool to get you from one place to another and we didn't care what brand the frame was, or the wheels, or whether the brakes were Vee, mountain, disk, etc... or even what kind of seat we sat on... riding was great fun and what we rode on or how we dressed didn't matter...

    we lived in the country... there were very few paved roads, we road on gravel or dirt... we rode thru fields, in the woods, through creeks and built ramps to allow us to "fly" and land in the river...

    same with golf! it seems it has become a yuppie sport since i last participated... and it seems i don't fit in there as i didn't fit in with the "greek" societies while i was in college...

    i'd like to see people ride for fun and exercise and not get so tied up in what you look like, what you're riding, and how much your shoes cost... and if you are wrapped up in that kind of stuf... leave me alone...

  2. #2
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    Yes, fenders are terrific. It has rained in my part of Houston for about 28 out of the last 30 days. I still ride every day, and fenders have let me get home a little bit dryer and cleaner than I would otherwise. It is a shame that most 2007 road bikes are so poorly designed that it is difficult or impossible to fit full fenders.

    If you are riding to improve your health, try to ride every day. Riding all day, just one time a week will leave you tired and sore, and do little to improve your health or fitness. Riding just 30 minutes or an hour, five or six days a week will greatly improve your health, if you stick with it, month after month. In six months, you will feel ten years younger and your doctor will think someone else took your lab tests.

    Wear whatever you want to wear. I have BMX pedals on most of my bikes, as BMX pedals let you wear tennis shoes, running shoes, sandals or wingtip dress shoes. Sometimes I ride to work wearing a suit and tie (rarely these days, thank goodness). And, the rest of the time, I'm likely to be wearing cut-off jeans, an old tee-shirt and sandals. There is NO required "uniform" for riding a bike. (The folks who say "I could not ride my bike today, because my bike clothes were in the washer" are not actually cyclists...they are merely fashion models posing as cyclists).
    Last edited by alanbikehouston; 07-20-07 at 10:19 AM.

  3. #3
    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
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    one - nothing they're just being tools - sorry I mean bike snobs

    two - what was the question again?
    shameless POWERCRANK plug
    Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
    Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
    Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rex G's Avatar
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    The two previous responses are excellent.
    Have Colt, will travel...

  5. #5
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    yeah, i've been riding the past several weeks starting with a couple of easy miles and trying to extend my time and mileage... i've decided to make an hour my standard time period and see what mileage i can do in that period of time... and my average speed...

    i'm up to about 12 miles now in an hour... and picking up speed every day sometimes i get farther away from home than i intend and it takes extra time to get back... but i'm establishing routes that will get me the hours time and distance pretty close together...

    i've been doing shaolin kung fu for several years and am in fair shape... but this takes different muscle and more stamina... i'm used to large amounts of effort in bursts... this is a more sustained effort... i get a little sore and a bit stiff, but some stretching takes care of it...

    my goal is 20 miles a day in 60 minutes...

    cul...

    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston View Post
    Yes, fenders are terrific. It has rained in my part of Houston for about 28 out of the last 30 days. I still ride every day, and fenders have let me get home a little bit dryer and cleaner than I would otherwise. It is a shame that most 2007 road bikes are so poorly designed that it is difficult or impossible to fit full fenders.

    If you are riding to improve your health, try to ride every day. Riding all day, just one time a week will leave you tired and sore, and do little to improve your health or fitness. Riding just 30 minutes or an hour, five or six days a week will greatly improve your health, if you stick with it, month after month. In six months, you will feel ten years younger and your doctor will think someone else took your lab tests.

    Wear whatever you want to wear. I have BMX pedals on most of my bikes, as BMX pedals let you wear tennis shoes, running shoes, sandals or wingtip dress shoes. Sometimes I ride to work wearing a suit and tie (rarely these days, thank goodness). And, the rest of the time, I'm likely to be wearing cut-off jeans, an old tee-shirt and sandals. There is NO required "uniform" for riding a bike. (The folks who say "I didn't ride my bike today, because my bike clothes were in the washer" are not actually cyclists...they are merely fashion models posing as cyclists).

  6. #6
    Spelling Snob Hobartlemagne's Avatar
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    I dont pay attention to that kind of attitude.
    I respect riders who ride better than me, not ones who just look better than me.

    The first rule of flats is You don't talk about flats!

  7. #7
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    sorry, i did ramble and forgot my point... i tend to do that... i think much quicker than i type and can't get it all down in writing... AD syndrome my wife says...

  8. #8
    Enjoying the Ride Bob Loblaw's Avatar
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    mike-
    Welcome! I think your philosophy and general attitude towards life will be widely accepted here. I certainly appreciate it.

    I think you've managed to run into some serious cycling poseurs. I wouldn't worry about it. If fenders make your ride more enjoyable, get them. They happen to be very effective. In terms of the appearance factor, don't worry about that either. I think you'll find that there are a number of people here that take specific pride in dusting off a rider on a $3000 bike in full sponsorship gear (that they bought online no less) on their 20 year old road bikes, hybrids, etc... To each their own, but if you're worried about how you look, you're definately missing the point.

    just my two cents.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    i'd like to see people ride for fun and exercise and not get so tied up in what you look like, what you're riding, and how much your shoes cost... and if you are wrapped up in that kind of stuf... leave me alone...
    Maybe the folks that are wrapped up in what they look like and how much their shoes cost would just as soon you leave them alone too.

  10. #10
    Senior Member kjmillig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston View Post
    Yes, fenders are terrific. It has rained in my part of Houston for about 28 out of the last 30 days. I still ride every day, and fenders have let me get home a little bit dryer and cleaner than I would otherwise.
    +1...Dwain the bathtub, we're dwowning!
    Fenders, lights, racks, etc are cool and make your bike more usable. Bike shop folks who laugh are dweebs. They should be supporting your desire to ride 100%!
    "Pain is weakness leaving the body"......yea, right!

  11. #11
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    iquestions one: what's wrong with fenders? i bought a trek 7100 and asked for fenders, cuz i ride in the country where theres lots of potholes and manure from the Amish horses that pull their buggies around the neighborhood... the owner of the store acted surprised, but willing to order them, his cronies, or disciples, or whatever you call the crowd that hang around the bike shop kinda snickered...
    Fenders are great. The bike shop owner and his cronies are probably moron racer-wannabes who love to make fun of the uncool "Freds" whose bikes are actually practicable and work in the real world.

    question two: as a younger person... the type of bicyle you rode didn't seem to be that important... it was a tool to get you from one place to another and we didn't care what brand the frame was, or the wheels, or whether the brakes were Vee, mountain, disk, etc... or even what kind of seat we sat on... riding was great fun and what we rode on or how we dressed didn't matter...

    we lived in the country... there were very few paved roads, we road on gravel or dirt... we rode thru fields, in the woods, through creeks and built ramps to allow us to "fly" and land in the river...

    same with golf! it seems it has become a yuppie sport since i last participated... and it seems i don't fit in there as i didn't fit in with the "greek" societies while i was in college...

    i'd like to see people ride for fun and exercise and not get so tied up in what you look like, what you're riding, and how much your shoes cost... and if you are wrapped up in that kind of stuf... leave me alone...
    So, um, what's the question?...

  12. #12
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    I think your post is not really a question, per se but a statement about your preception of who's riding out there. You would probably get the same things like in car buying, workout gyms, choice of computers and accessories, etc.

  13. #13
    Feral Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    not even snobs look down on fenders. Only teens obsessed with looking cool.

    I chuckled mightily watching two kids riding past during a torrential downpour.. riding reeaallllly slow
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    "his cronies, or disciples, or whatever you call the crowd that hang around the bike shop kinda snickered..."
    That happened ONCE at the FIRST LBS I tried. I haven't been back to see if it would happen again.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    i'm on the younger end of the boomer generation, and am beginning to show signs of age creeping up on me in blood pressure, cholesterol, and triglycerides though i'm fairly active...

    soooo..... doc has suggested i take up cycling... after about 25 years or so...

    i looked around a while and finally settled on a 2 wheeler by trek... and i like it lots better than the bikes i used as a younger person...

    while riding, i'm thinking...

    questions one: what's wrong with fenders? i bought a trek 7100 and asked for fenders, cuz i ride in the country where theres lots of potholes and manure from the Amish horses that pull their buggies around the neighborhood... the owner of the store acted surprised, but willing to order them, his cronies, or disciples, or whatever you call the crowd that hang around the bike shop kinda snickered... not really appreciated here and i made that known as i'm not one to put up with that stuff... you do your thing, i'll do mine...and don't butt in as long as its not hurting anybody... and i got over my vanity a long time ago...
    They're idiots. Fenders are almost essential unless you only ride when the roads are dry. The alternative is a skunk stripe down your back. Ask me how I know. Plus fenders will keep your bike cleaner. They're probably roadie snobs who think bikes should only come in one flavor.

    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    question two: as a younger person... the type of bicyle you rode didn't seem to be that important... it was a tool to get you from one place to another and we didn't care what brand the frame was, or the wheels, or whether the brakes were Vee, mountain, disk, etc... or even what kind of seat we sat on... riding was great fun and what we rode on or how we dressed didn't matter...

    we lived in the country... there were very few paved roads, we road on gravel or dirt... we rode thru fields, in the woods, through creeks and built ramps to allow us to "fly" and land in the river...

    same with golf! it seems it has become a yuppie sport since i last participated... and it seems i don't fit in there as i didn't fit in with the "greek" societies while i was in college...

    i'd like to see people ride for fun and exercise and not get so tied up in what you look like, what you're riding, and how much your shoes cost... and if you are wrapped up in that kind of stuf... leave me alone...
    Well, I didn't see a question here, maybe more of a rant?

    Don't worry about it, there are snobs in cycling, just as there are in any aspect of life. They're losers who can only feel good about themselves if they're putting somebody else down. There are some good, solid reasons to buy certain "accessories"-- clothing, bike equipment, even a particular type of bike for a particular type of purpose. If you ask here about why people buy this accessory, or that accessory, you'll learn a lot. But you don't have to buy accessories just to get on a bike and ride. I think the more you ride, the more you'll figure out what you want to add to the mix, and what you don't need. Until then, ignore the snobs who think you have to fit into their mold.

  16. #16
    Feral Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    oops, I didn't even read the detail in the OP about the bike shop.

    That's shocking. I'm surprised grown adults behave like that, even more so people working in a bike shop.

    Those children need a serious boot to the head. Really, wow. Shockingly immature.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.

  17. #17
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
    They're idiots. Fenders are almost essential unless you only ride when the roads are dry. The alternative is a skunk stripe down your back. Ask me how I know. Plus fenders will keep your bike cleaner. They're probably roadie snobs who think bikes should only come in one flavor.
    Fenders are only essential if you need them. It depends largely on where you ride. Here in Colorado, fenders are just plain unnecessary most of the time (I haven't been caught in rain since May). I don't need to carry them around for those few times when I might need them. Plus they rattle and make changing a flat more cumbersome. If you need them by all means use them. But I leave them hanging on the wall most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
    Don't worry about it, there are snobs in cycling, just as there are in any aspect of life. They're losers who can only feel good about themselves if they're putting somebody else down. There are some good, solid reasons to buy certain "accessories"-- clothing, bike equipment, even a particular type of bike for a particular type of purpose. If you ask here about why people buy this accessory, or that accessory, you'll learn a lot. But you don't have to buy accessories just to get on a bike and ride. I think the more you ride, the more you'll figure out what you want to add to the mix, and what you don't need. Until then, ignore the snobs who think you have to fit into their mold.
    I fully agree. Most of the clothing that I wear is bicycle specific but I don't wear it for fashion. I wear it because I learned I needed it through the school of hard knocks. Padded shorts: beat hiking shorts by a country mile and they don't leave you walking bowlegged after the ride. Stiff shoes: Don't leave as much of a burning sensation under the ball of your foot. Clipless pedals: Better power transfer and your feet don't go bouncing off the pedals on rough terrain. Jerseys: Handle sweat better than t-shirts and are cooler...both literally and figuratively. Gloves: Go down on pavement or gravel once and you'll see the need for those. I advocate that people wear this stuff because it works and it will save some pain. If they want to learn the hard way, that's their prerogative.
    Stuart Black
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Fenders are only essential if you need them. It depends largely on where you ride. Here in Colorado, fenders are just plain unnecessary most of the time (I haven't been caught in rain since May). I don't need to carry them around for those few times when I might need them. Plus they rattle and make changing a flat more cumbersome. If you need them by all means use them. But I leave them hanging on the wall most of the time.
    Fenders will also keep your back dry if it's not raining, but the roads are still wet. That's why I said unless you only ride when the roads are dry, fenders are almost essential. Can you ride without them on a wet road? Sure. Will you get a stripe of dirty road water the length of your back? Yep.

    But you're right, it all depends on how often it rains, whether you ride when the roads are wet, and whether you care about keeping the road water off of you.

  19. #19
    Very Senior Member MikeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chephy View Post
    Fenders are great. The bike shop owner and his cronies are probably moron racer-wannabes who love to make fun of the uncool "Freds" whose bikes are actually practicable and work in the real world..
    +1
    Find a good LBS that caters to Freds & commuters. They're around. I have one - it's great.
    BTW I have fenders on all my bikes.
    It's better to cycle through life than to drive by it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    i'm on the younger end of the boomer generation, and am beginning to show signs of age creeping up on me in blood pressure, cholesterol, and triglycerides though i'm fairly active...

    soooo..... doc has suggested i take up cycling... after about 25 years or so...

    i looked around a while and finally settled on a 2 wheeler by trek... and i like it lots better than the bikes i used as a younger person...

    while riding, i'm thinking...

    questions one: what's wrong with fenders? i bought a trek 7100 and asked for fenders, cuz i ride in the country where theres lots of potholes and manure from the Amish horses that pull their buggies around the neighborhood... the owner of the store acted surprised, but willing to order them, his cronies, or disciples, or whatever you call the crowd that hang around the bike shop kinda snickered... not really appreciated here and i made that known as i'm not one to put up with that stuff... you do your thing, i'll do mine... and don't butt in as long as its not hurting anybody... and i got over my vanity a long time ago...

    question two: as a younger person... the type of bicyle you rode didn't seem to be that important... it was a tool to get you from one place to another and we didn't care what brand the frame was, or the wheels, or whether the brakes were Vee, mountain, disk, etc... or even what kind of seat we sat on... riding was great fun and what we rode on or how we dressed didn't matter...

    we lived in the country... there were very few paved roads, we road on gravel or dirt... we rode thru fields, in the woods, through creeks and built ramps to allow us to "fly" and land in the river...

    same with golf! it seems it has become a yuppie sport since i last participated... and it seems i don't fit in there as i didn't fit in with the "greek" societies while i was in college...

    i'd like to see people ride for fun and exercise and not get so tied up in what you look like, what you're riding, and how much your shoes cost... and if you are wrapped up in that kind of stuf... leave me alone...
    I'm likely close to your age (I'm 43), and I'll give you my answers...

    The problem with fenders are:

    1) They add weight
    2) They're slower
    3) Many race bikes don't have sufficient clearance to fit them (though there are options there)

    I don't have fenders on my main road bike. I have full fenders on my rain bike, because when you need fenders, you need fenders. I'm in Seattle, and I certainly need them in the winter.

    *If* the owner of the store caters mostly to "the go-fast crowd" and your area is mostly dry in the summers, fenders are likely a rarity.

    As for question two - well, there really isn't a question there, you're just bemoaning your opinion as to motivations around riding. While I understand and have some resonance with your opinion, it's not any more valid than the group that cares a lot about their kit because it helps them go fast.

    And of course, there's are a lot of posers out there who buy for the look or name rather than the function.
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
    199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanbikehouston View Post
    If you are riding to improve your health, try to ride every day. Riding all day, just one time a week will leave you tired and sore, and do little to improve your health or fitness. Riding just 30 minutes or an hour, five or six days a week will greatly improve your health, if you stick with it, month after month. In six months, you will feel ten years younger and your doctor will think someone else took your lab tests.
    I've lost 50 lbs in the last year doing exactly this. There were quite a few weeks where all I did was 35 miles in a week - my work commmute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobartlemagne View Post
    I respect riders who ride better than me, not ones who just look better than me.
    I respect riders who behave like civilized human beings towards others.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    I respect riders who behave like civilized human beings towards others.
    +1

    I wish there was a bow smiley.

  23. #23
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
    Fenders will also keep your back dry if it's not raining, but the roads are still wet. That's why I said unless you only ride when the roads are dry, fenders are almost essential. Can you ride without them on a wet road? Sure. Will you get a stripe of dirty road water the length of your back? Yep.

    But you're right, it all depends on how often it rains, whether you ride when the roads are wet, and whether you care about keeping the road water off of you.
    What's a wet road? Colorado's humidity is so low that we don't often have roads staying wet for more than a few minutes after a rain storm. We even have the phenomenon of rain falling from the sky and missing the ground It's called virga.
    Stuart Black
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    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Fenders are only essential if you need them. It depends largely on where you ride. Here in Colorado, fenders are just plain unnecessary most of the time (I haven't been caught in rain since May). I don't need to carry them around for those few times when I might need them. Plus they rattle and make changing a flat more cumbersome. If you need them by all means use them. But I leave them hanging on the wall most of the time.
    The first day I left my fenders at home, I got caught in a thunder shower.
    In this age of mindless consumerism, of atomized populations living in boxes, working in boxes, and traveling in boxes, almost always alone, with only the electronic voices of their new feudal lords to guide them through life, the bicycle becomes an instrument of gentle revolution. --Richard Risemberg

  25. #25
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vulpes View Post
    The first day I left my fenders at home, I got caught in a thunder shower.
    As my pappy says, 'You ain't sugar. You won't melt."
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