Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Anybody have issues with the Onguard locks?

    Today I have a large Onguard padlock at work, and a coworker grabs a wire from the shop (flattens it a little). I hand him the lock and he picks it on about 2 seconds, does it 4 times in a row. Why even call it a lock. I used to attach my bikes and the bikerack to the truck with this. Why make a thick hardened shackle and then put a cheap keying mechanism.
    A few months ago I had a $45 combo chain lock from Onguard fall apart in my hands. I returned it.
    The padlock is now reduced to low value locking (like a wall locker)
    Anybody else have 'trust' issues with Onguard.

    (please no re-hashing the brand wars, Onguard only please)

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova
    Posts
    714
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the plastic casing on mine completely shattered and fell apart leaving the lock in shambles after only a few months.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lima_bean View Post
    the plastic casing on mine completely shattered and fell apart leaving the lock in shambles after only a few months.
    which model\type was it?

  4. #4
    tired donnamb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
    Posts
    5,660
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wonder if these issues have something to do with Onguard not having a Sold Secure rating anymore.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

  5. #5
    Safety Zealot wyeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm curious to know if there is something to that. Better to find out now than to come back to an empty rack.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wyeast View Post
    I'm curious to know if there is something to that. Better to find out now than to come back to an empty rack.
    for sure! an $800 bike + a $600 bike + $175 rack + accessories = would be painfull

  7. #7
    Senior Member madfiNch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    My Bikes
    Burley Runabout 7 and Specialized Allez Elite
    Posts
    257
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They're at all my LBSes now, and I have never liked the looks of them, I don't know why, but now I'm glad I went with my instincts..

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Nashua, NH
    My Bikes
    Trek 6000
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Today I have a large Onguard padlock at work, and a coworker grabs a wire from the shop (flattens it a little). I hand him the lock and he picks it on about 2 seconds, does it 4 times in a row. Why even call it a lock. I used to attach my bikes and the bikerack to the truck with this. Why make a thick hardened shackle and then put a cheap keying mechanism.
    Wow that's awful, but unfortunately a lot of pad locks are that easy. Cheaper locks are all fairly easy to pick assuming that you know how to do it. Skill with a lock pick can play a considerable roll though. My brother had a few TSA luggage locks (for some reason he'd bought like a 4 pack) so I tried to pick them using his lock pick set. For some reason it takes me about 2-3 minutes to open one, while he can do it in less than 10 seconds. Practice makes perfect I suppose.

    I guess my point is that... as far as lock picking goes skill can be a determining factor.

    Then again, some combo locks and pad locks can be defeated with a simple shim made of metal (like from a soda can), inserted from the top U. I've never actually tried this one myself, but from I've seen it looks easy enough.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    10,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's a link to my saga with OnGuard, it's a good read on how not to deal with a customer in the internet age.
    WARNING- OnGuard Europe (Magnum Lock) refuses to replace faulty locks!


    I've had lot's of issues with OnGuard locks, in fact I've had THREE Brute locks freeze up on me, all had been used for less than a year.

    To top it all off the customer service from OnGuard/Magnum (Magnum is the producer of OnGuard locks) was simply horrible! I had to deal directly with the manufacturer as there is no distributor where I live, and they kept on telling me to deal with the distributor in my country, which of course doesn't exist. I had the feeling that they couldn't care less about helping me with my problems with their products continually failing for both my wife and me.
    Last edited by Ziemas; 08-04-07 at 03:23 AM.

  10. #10
    ex-everything. soze's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Charlestown, MA
    My Bikes
    venerable surly crosscheck
    Posts
    593
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Is your co-worker a TOOOL-type lock hobbyist?

    Every lock can be picked. The question is how much of a pain in the ass it is to do so. Outside of the Bic pen trick, thieves do not bother picking locks.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    10,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    I wonder if these issues have something to do with Onguard not having a Sold Secure rating anymore.
    Good catch, most of their products indeed aren't listed anymore. Just a two cable locks sold under the Magnum name. They are still listed at the ART Foundation though.....I wonder what's up......

  12. #12
    Senior Member wrafl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Western Burbs of Chicago
    Posts
    948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And I thought I owned the antithief lock recomended by the LBS to me, OnGuard bulldog. I suppose I need to reinforce or check for other lock types then.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    10,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by texasphil View Post
    Today I have a large Onguard padlock at work, and a coworker grabs a wire from the shop (flattens it a little). I hand him the lock and he picks it on about 2 seconds, does it 4 times in a row. Why even call it a lock. I used to attach my bikes and the bikerack to the truck with this. Why make a thick hardened shackle and then put a cheap keying mechanism.
    A few months ago I had a $45 combo chain lock from Onguard fall apart in my hands. I returned it.
    The padlock is now reduced to low value locking (like a wall locker)
    Anybody else have 'trust' issues with Onguard.

    (please no re-hashing the brand wars, Onguard only please)
    Exactly which model of lock was picked?

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    998
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    I wonder if these issues have something to do with Onguard not having a Sold Secure rating anymore.
    I really hope the locks don't have the Sold Secure rating because they are new models and not tested yet. I would never buy an Onguard lock again if they don't do this, mainly because it would be a game of chance. If Onguard got their latest models Sold Secure certified, I would consider one, but I don't want to gamble.

    This sounds dumb, and I don't intend to sound like a corporate shill, but I have had excellent service from Kryptonite, and so far have never had any of their products fail on me, since the days of the early Kryptonite locks in grade school. (Before their U-locks, stores had two bike lock options. The $3 cable with a clear plastic tube on it and a four digit combination lock, and a $5 chain with a clear plastic tube on it and a padlock [1].)

    [1]: How retro. Master Lock still sells the same types. http://tinyurl.com/fxp52, and http://tinyurl.com/ylpy2e.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by soze View Post
    Is your co-worker a TOOOL-type lock hobbyist?

    Every lock can be picked. The question is how much of a pain in the ass it is to do so. Outside of the Bic pen trick, thieves do not bother picking locks.
    No, he couldn't pick a door lock

  16. #16
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by soze View Post
    Is your co-worker a TOOOL-type lock hobbyist?

    Every lock can be picked. The question is how much of a pain in the ass it is to do so. Outside of the Bic pen trick, thieves do not bother picking locks.
    +1

    Called crappy locks and a bolt cutter.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  17. #17
    Dances a jig. Mchaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central, Ok
    My Bikes
    2007 Surly Long Haul Trucker 54cm (Commuting/Wanna' go tour so bad), 1985 Trek 670 21" (Road), 2003 Gary Fisher Tassajara 17" (MTB), Cannondale DeltaV 600 (commuterized MTB), some junker bikes in my garage
    Posts
    403
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I haven't had a problem with my OnGuard Bulldog Mini TC u-lock. It was getting difficult to open/close about a month back (after over a year of daily all-weather use), and a little spray of WD-40 made it as good as new. If I remember right, the regular Bulldog Mini had a silver Sold Secure rating. The TC is the same, just without the bulky plastic casing. To top it off, I only payed $25 for it at Alfred E. Bike.

    Their customer service is excellent as well. For some reason my lock didn't have the mounting bracket included in the package when I got it. I contacted the company through e-mail, and a few days later I had one on my doorstep. No questions asked.
    Last edited by Mchaz; 08-04-07 at 08:35 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    10,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mlts22 View Post
    I really hope the locks don't have the Sold Secure rating because they are new models and not tested yet. I would never buy an Onguard lock again if they don't do this, mainly because it would be a game of chance. If Onguard got their latest models Sold Secure certified, I would consider one, but I don't want to gamble.

    This sounds dumb, and I don't intend to sound like a corporate shill, but I have had excellent service from Kryptonite, and so far have never had any of their products fail on me, since the days of the early Kryptonite locks in grade school. (Before their U-locks, stores had two bike lock options. The $3 cable with a clear plastic tube on it and a four digit combination lock, and a $5 chain with a clear plastic tube on it and a padlock [1].)

    [1]: How retro. Master Lock still sells the same types. http://tinyurl.com/fxp52, and http://tinyurl.com/ylpy2e.
    Before people start panicking, let's look at this in a rational way. First off I'll state that there is no love lost between me and OnGuard/Magnum. After three locks jamming on me and my wife, and the absolutely horrible customer service I had from the maker of OnGuard/Magnum locks, I'll never buy another of their products again. Details here for those who are curious: WARNING- OnGuard Europe (Magnum Lock) refuses to replace faulty locks!

    That being said, I highly doubt that OnGuard/Mangum locks lost their Sold Secure rating because they have been picked. It's very hard to pick the flat key style lock cylinders that all the major lock makers are now using. Also, it's up to OnGuard/Magnum to submit their locks to Sold Secure and pay for the testing procedure. Maybe they just didn't submit their locks recently enough for the latest Sold Secure ratings. OnGuard/Magnum locks are still rated by the ART Foundation and Thatcham, both which are independent testing agencies like Sold Secure.


    As for the OnGuard/Magnum padlock being picked, we have no information as to which lock it was which was picked. OnGuard/Magnum make several models. In addition, padlocks are notoriously easy to pick; I've done it myself on MasterLocks with ease. These are not the same lock cylinders which are on the OnGuard/Magnum U-locks and high-end chain locks.

    Perhaps the OP can give us some specifics to which model padlock was picked, and what style key it had. Here's a link the the OnGuard padlock page: http://www.onguardlock.com/padlock/

    And here are two pictures of keys. It would be great to tell us which style the lock in question had. Thanks.



    HIGH SECURITY FLAT KEY



    STANDARD PADLOCK KEY
    Last edited by Ziemas; 08-05-07 at 08:21 AM.

  19. #19
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Where my bike's at
    My Bikes
    a lot
    Posts
    2,583
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by texasphil View Post
    No, he couldn't pick a door lock
    My state ID card has marks from doing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
    They can't fix expansion joints, because they expand.
    Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!

  20. #20
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Where my bike's at
    My Bikes
    a lot
    Posts
    2,583
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've only lost ONE locked bike!

    They ripped the bannister off my trailer doorstep.

    I had "OnStar" of sorts and got it back.

    It was one only TWO Schwinn's 100th anniversary "original design" 26" cruisers with the front spring sold at the dealer under the last owner, and it was stolen just before the count fair. The thief was a huge braggart and was telling all the kids about the lowrider he was going to chop it into, so a lot of kids were asking the bike shop owner at his booth and he was easily able to add the numbers. BUSTED without John Walsh.

    It takes a nogoodnik to make it rain in any place, but the majority of my bygone rides were just a stupid not locked deal. The final result is still that I own the nicest bike I've ever owned and will do all I can to keep it so, barring any of Boris Badanov's successes.
    Last edited by Rollfast; 08-05-07 at 01:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
    They can't fix expansion joints, because they expand.
    Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!

  21. #21
    Senior Member ajay677's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    For the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, an idiot.
    Posts
    500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by texasphil View Post
    No, he couldn't pick a door lock
    Why's that? I had an apprentice locksmith unlock my 1987 Mustang. He used an aluminum key blank. Inserted it in the lock and wiggled it around. Pulled it out and filed a bit where there were marks on the blank. Inserted it again, wiggled, pulled it out and filed some more. He did this until the key opened the lock. It took all of 5 or 6 minutes. I still have the key, unfortunately the car was totalled in a head on collision.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    10,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For some reason the OP refuses to give any specific information on the lock which was picked. Due to this, I'm calling BS on his claim as a service to anyone who might do a search about locks and find this thread.

    It sounds like misinformation to me at best, and down right false at worst.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,251
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    For some reason the OP refuses to give any specific information on the lock which was picked. Due to this, I'm calling BS on his claim as a service to anyone who might do a search about locks and find this thread.

    It sounds like misinformation to me at best, and down right false at worst.
    You are right. It seems odd that the OP has refused to specify which lock he is talking about. There have been a number of threads started in the past month attacking either OnGuard or Kryptonite. Most of them have been started by people with little or no posting history at "Bike Forums". I'm guessing some of them may be "shills" for folks peddling competing brands of locks.

    Clearly, the "best" and most expensive locks from OnGuard and Kryptonite are designed to be difficult to pick. My neighborhood locksmith told me he can't make a key for my Kryptonite locks, as the design is so different than standard keys.

    Any lock can be defeated by a crook who has the right tools, training, experience, and opportunity. But, 99% of bike thefts are directed at bikes that are locked with "imaginary" locks (such as cable locks, $10 chain locks, and $10 u-locks) and bikes that are not properly attached to secure objects.

    If someone is using a top OnGuard or Kryptonite lock with the "Sheldon Brown" method and locking to a beefy steel post that is set in concrete, he doesn't need to worry too much about getting his bike stolen.

    Just use good sense. If folks see a $2,000 bike locked to the same post for nine hours a day, day after day, week after week, sooner or later, someone will try to take it. That sort of "high risk" situation calls for having a bike that LOOKS as if it is worth $20, even if it actually performs like a high dollar bike.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •