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Old 08-15-07, 12:30 PM   #1
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The cost of food ans why this cost is rising.....

Many know that the cost of food is starting to pinch but not
many understand why food is getting more expensive.

This is news you can use as to why food will continue to go up.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18902.html
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Old 08-15-07, 01:00 PM   #2
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Corn. It all comes back to corn. And corn goes back to oil.
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Old 08-15-07, 03:00 PM   #3
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I don't necessarily want to make this a political discussion (actually I do--it's a political issue), but the post that says corn is behind a lot of this is dead on. Google around for things related to ethanol and you'll find some of the reasons. Bush's call for increased production of corn to produce ethanol and "reduce our dependence on foreign oil" is fantasy. It's already jacked the price of corn, which indirectly jacks the price of almost everything else, there isn't enough farmland on the continent to produce all we'd need.
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Old 08-15-07, 03:10 PM   #4
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Just wait until all the farmworkers are deported...
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Old 08-15-07, 03:31 PM   #5
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Just wait until all the farmworkers are deported...
There just needs to be a better worker visa program and it needs to be followed up on. The porous borders have done nothing but let MS13 get a foothold in places they never should have been.
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Old 08-15-07, 03:38 PM   #6
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"Needs to be" and "is" are two different things. There's a cannery here in Portland that has already had to shut down after it was raided. And the feds are planning even more extensive enforcement. Of course, there's always the possibility that it's just a ploy to pressure Congress into acting.

Personally, I'd like to see the entire question resolved for a different reason-- illegal aliens are exploited by unscrupulous landlords who rent substandard housing, and who threaten to call immigration if the tenants complain, and they're exploited by unscrupulous employment contractors who underpay them and threaten to call immigration if they complain. It's time to get their status legal and start treating them fairly under the law. If that means a better worker visa program, then that's what Congress needs to do.
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Old 08-15-07, 04:07 PM   #7
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"It's partly because of corn prices, driven up by congressional mandates for ethanol production, which have reduced the amount of corn available for animal feed. It's also because of tougher immigration enforcement and a late spring freeze, which have made farm laborers scarcer and damaged fruit and vegetable crops, respectively. And it's because of higher diesel fuel costs to run tractors and attractive foreign markets that take U.S. production." - From the article.

I am sure that the article understates ethanol's role in this. I predicted last fall that all grains would rise in price this year, and I was right. Soybean, rapeseed, canola, wheat, barley, hopps, cotton, you name it, all are up this year.

Any guesses why? Econ 101! Simple supply and demand!

Due to the greater value of corn (thanks to the American taxpayer subsidies and federal production targets of ethanol), farmers are naturally putting more acreage into corn and planting less of everything else. So not only is corn more expensive- food uses having to compete with federal subsidies- but so is all other agriculture. Welcome to the law of unintended consequences!

Do you still think it is a good idea to use our food to fuel our cars?
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Old 08-15-07, 04:17 PM   #8
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It's time to get their status legal and start treating them fairly under the law. If that means a better worker visa program, then that's what Congress needs to do.
Treating them fairly under the law doesn't really mean scratching out laws that they broke, either. That's not fair to the people who did right by the country and entered legally. Balkanized, unassimilated communities don't benefit anyone. Look at the banlieus in France where they hide all of their colonial immigrants from northern Africa.

It's not black and white simple.
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Old 08-15-07, 04:17 PM   #9
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From the Office of Redundancy Office:

" Half the nation's families earn below the median family income of about $56,000." - from McClatchy Washington Bureau article cited above.

One of the many reasons I don't read newspapers anymore; They are always insulting my intelligence.
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Old 08-15-07, 04:21 PM   #10
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Treating them fairly under the law doesn't really mean scratching out laws that they broke, either. That's not fair to the people who did right by the country and entered legally. Balkanized, unassimilated communities don't benefit anyone. Look at the banlieus in France where they hide all of their colonial immigrants from northern Africa.

It's not black and white simple.
No, what I mean is I used to say "leave them alone." Now I say "legalize their status." If that means an expanded visa program, or an expanded guest worker program, or whatever, fine.

Then it will be easier to crack down on those parasites who prey on them.

Either that, or we deserve to get the astronomically higher food prices that will follow their deportation.
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Old 08-15-07, 04:22 PM   #11
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From the Office of Redundancy Office:

" Half the nation's families earn below the median family income of about $56,000." - from McClatchy Washington Bureau article cited above.

One of the many reasons I don't read newspapers anymore; They are always insulting my intelligence.
So what do the other half earn?

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Old 08-15-07, 04:34 PM   #12
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"Do you still think it is a good idea to use our food to fuel our cars?
No, and for other reasons beyond higher food prices. As prices rise, we can also expect to see wildlife habitat converted to fuel production:

Ethiopian Elephants, Lions Face Extinction

Thu May 31, 2007 1:18PM EDT

By Tsegaye Tadesse

ADDIS ABABA (Reuters) - A thousand rare black-mane lions -- an Ethiopian national symbol -- and some 300 elephants are in danger after a swathe of forest that was part of their sanctuary was cut down, a wildlife expert said on Thursday.

The land was cleared from a designated conservation area at Midiga Tola, adjacent to the Babile Elephant Sanctuary located 557 km (346 miles) east of Addis Ababa, Ethiopian Wildlife Association President Yirmed Demeke said.

Flora EcoPower Holding AG, a German biodiesel producer, cleared the forest after it was granted 10,000 hectares of land, Yirmed said.

"The company has continued to clear the forested land without any concern for the wild anmials threatened by the destruction of an internationally recognized conservation area," Yirmed said.

Munich-based Flora EcoPower's chief operations officer for Ethiopia said the company met wildlife experts and government officials over the past few days to solve the problem.

"We are not touching one area where there are elephants," said Alon Hovev, adding that the area they were working in was 30 km from the elephants' habitat.

The problem, he said, arose from a lack of communication between the company and conservation groups, which had been solved by the meetings.

"No one can tell us we are not taking care of animals. Anything they will tell us to do, we will do and we will contribute money," he said.

Wildlife experts who visited the forest lodged protests with the regional and federal governments, saying the company had not conducted the legally required environmental impact assessment before cutting the forest down.

Tadesse Hailu, head of the Ministry of Agriculture's Wildlife Protection Department, said local authorities must make sure that investment does not harm conservation areas, wildlife or the environment.

The 7,000 square-kilometer (4,350 square mile) sanctuary is the only one of its kind in Ethiopia, and is home to about 300 elephants, 1,000 black-mane lions and 250 bird and plant species endemic to the Horn of Africa nation.

The black-mane lions are revered as a national symbol in Ethiopia, where they are on the national currency and are often depicted in statues.

Scores of the black-maned lions are kept in a zoo in the capital Addis Ababa. Wildlife experts estimate that only about 1,000 remain in the wild.
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Old 08-15-07, 04:45 PM   #13
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please!!! Do Not Make This A Full Politcal Discussion Or It
Will Get Buried In The Swamp Called Politics Here.

You Know, That Place Where Only A Few Dare Go.........
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Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
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Old 08-15-07, 04:49 PM   #14
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No, what I mean is I used to say "leave them alone." Now I say "legalize their status." If that means an expanded visa program, or an expanded guest worker program, or whatever, fine.

Then it will be easier to crack down on those parasites who prey on them.

Either that, or we deserve to get the astronomically higher food prices that will follow their deportation.
Gotcha. I in no way think they should be abused. I think making more guest worker visas available would help both sides, especially since one current train of thought is to make the people who hire them into criminals. Not much you can do other than see if they have a SSN, etc. I don't think it's anywhere near a majority of companies are "preying" on the workers, but enough do that your concerns are valid and that would at least give them a chance to be dealt with. It also gets rid of the evil that traffics in illegal aliens and turn the current visa system into a bribe based one.

A vast majority of the workers just want to come here and work. They send money home to their families, we get cheaper food. They're not living in constant fear of being deported so they can join in with the culture as a whole.

Just need to make sure that you can keep out the people coming for the wrong reasons. Government is great at that!
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Old 08-15-07, 05:20 PM   #15
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Aren't there better plants to produce ethanol then corn?
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Old 08-15-07, 05:39 PM   #16
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Take away the 52 cent per gallon government subsidy on ethanol and the corn cost problem for the food supply will go away. Corn based ethanol won't stand on it's own economically.

YES, the use of corn for ethanol is having a HUGE impact on food cost. Guess what folks, your getting poked at both ends because your taxes are going to subsidise the use of ethanol in fuel AND your food prices are going up.

The whole ethanol thing is a complete sham. They use natural gas or electricity to distill huge amounts of corn based "wort" to use as fuel. The net result is an energy loss. Take the natural gas, bottle it, and use that directly into the automobile engines like they do in most other countries. Going through all these expensive gyration so we can have liquid automobile fuel is fuelish.
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Old 08-15-07, 06:30 PM   #17
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From the Office of Redundancy Office:

" Half the nation's families earn below the median family income of about $56,000." - from McClatchy Washington Bureau article cited above.

One of the many reasons I don't read newspapers anymore; They are always insulting my intelligence.
I thought you were joking, then I went and looked.

Words fail me.
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Old 08-15-07, 06:38 PM   #18
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I thought you were joking, then I went and looked.

Words fail me.
I think it's quite possible that a number of their readers don't know what "median" means. They have a responsibility to write articles that readers of a certain reading level-- probably 8th grade-- can understand. Shakespeare did it too; he'd write something for the educated members of his audience, and then repeat it in words the peanut gallery would understand.
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Old 08-15-07, 10:33 PM   #19
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"Needs to be" and "is" are two different things. There's a cannery here in Portland that has already had to shut down after it was raided. And the feds are planning even more extensive enforcement. Of course, there's always the possibility that it's just a ploy to pressure Congress into acting.

Personally, I'd like to see the entire question resolved for a different reason-- illegal aliens are exploited by unscrupulous landlords who rent substandard housing, and who threaten to call immigration if the tenants complain, and they're exploited by unscrupulous employment contractors who underpay them and threaten to call immigration if they complain. It's time to get their status legal and start treating them fairly under the law. If that means a better worker visa program, then that's what Congress needs to do.
And what does this have to do with the price of food going up? Is somehow keeping illegals in bad paying jobs and terrible housing rising the cost of food? Seems to me that this would keep prices down. Sure the one cannery you mention might rise the price of canned fish, but not the rise of eggs.

Quote:
Half the nation's families earn below the median family income
OH MY GOD, this can't be so! Isn't that the definition of median?

This article is just another reporter trying to sound objective, but really pushing his agenda. Yes, the price of corn based products is going up. Like said above, supply and demand.

But the bigger question is why is this thread in a General Cycling Discussion forum? What does this have to do with cycling, except that we need to eat to cycle? Just like the author of the article wants to push his agenda, so does the OP.
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Old 08-15-07, 10:37 PM   #20
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And what does this have to do with the price of food going up? Is somehow keeping illegals in bad paying jobs and terrible housing rising the cost of food? Seems to me that this would keep prices down.
I believe that was my point...
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Old 08-16-07, 09:53 PM   #21
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I believe that was my point...
Sorry if I stepped on your toes Blue, I was drunk last night after a team meeting and might not have caught your posting correctly or at all.
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Old 08-17-07, 08:43 AM   #22
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Good thread. A new report viewed at JunkScience.com indicates that growing more forests rather than clearcutting them to grow bio-crops would have a bigger impact on CO2 reduction because of the former's ability to absorb the stuff. I guess just wrenching a forest out of the ground releases a ton of CO2.

A scary thought just occured to me; Where will we ride when the seas rise 12 feet?

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Old 08-17-07, 03:54 PM   #23
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Aren't there better plants to produce ethanol then corn?
Absolutely...saw grass, jerusalem artichokes and sugar beets just to name a few. All of which can produce much more ethanol per acre than corn and grow on the land that corn won't grow on. Jerusalem artichokes can produce up to 1200 gallons per acre...corn is doing good to get 350-400 gallons or so per acre. Ethanol Boondoggle brought to you by your Government and Corn Lobby (AGM)...to me is one of the more recent examples of why I don't trust the government...ever! Bend Over Baby...here comes the SMOKE!

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