Article on Lance
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF Bayarea
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally posted by fubar5
Well, the sports he mentioned I don't really consider true sports..I consider them games.
Baseball, football, basketball, hockey....They are games. Not that they aren't coolio.
I see sport as a test of the limits of human capability..Cycling, swimming, running, gymnastics...that sort of thing.
I betcha none of the games I mentioned would be so popular if there was no TV, I bet cycling would be more popular.
Well, the sports he mentioned I don't really consider true sports..I consider them games.
Baseball, football, basketball, hockey....They are games. Not that they aren't coolio.
I see sport as a test of the limits of human capability..Cycling, swimming, running, gymnastics...that sort of thing.
I betcha none of the games I mentioned would be so popular if there was no TV, I bet cycling would be more popular.
#27
0^0
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 4,056
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Oh yeah, this guy is also an unoriginal dork..Someone wrote an article last year that was basically the same idea.
__________________
Booyah!!
Booyah!!
#29
0^0
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 4,056
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Here's mine, I hope I tick him off...
Lame article dude.
Cycling is a sport. Sports require athletes.
Basketball, baseball, hockey, football...They are games.
Go buy a bike, and try riding up a hill.
Develop a training program, become a cat 5 racer (beginner) and try a few, and see what kinda "eye hand coordination" is required, along with decision making.
I bet you don't even know what Lance's bike is made out of.
Enjoy your Budwieser.
Matt Brown
Lame article dude.
Cycling is a sport. Sports require athletes.
Basketball, baseball, hockey, football...They are games.
Go buy a bike, and try riding up a hill.
Develop a training program, become a cat 5 racer (beginner) and try a few, and see what kinda "eye hand coordination" is required, along with decision making.
I bet you don't even know what Lance's bike is made out of.
Enjoy your Budwieser.
Matt Brown
__________________
Booyah!!
Booyah!!
#30
0^0
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 4,056
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally posted by Joe Gardner
Thats what they get paid to do...
Thats what they get paid to do...
Well, if you're going to get paid to be stupid, then you better be ready to stand to the music.
I sent him two just for good measure...Don't want to be ungenerous.
__________________
Booyah!!
Booyah!!
#31
0^0
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 4,056
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Hey guys, go to the Road Cycling forum and check out the thread about a new Nike commercial...It's like they read this guys article.
__________________
Booyah!!
Booyah!!
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Lance Armstrong can't be the "greatest athlete ever" when he isn't even the greatest ever at his own sport, can he?
That being said (and taking nothing from Armstrong, he's a once in a lifetime performer - I can tell my kids one day I watched him ride, like I'll tell them I saw Bonds hit, and Jordan dunk) the implication that cycle racing takes nothing but stamina and endurance is so laughable, but such a common perception.
The tactics, mental games, and pure handling skills required to just finish a race are much more difficult than almost anything in any other professional sport, let alone doing that for 5.5 hours a day for 3 weeks straight, while so fatigued you can't see straight at times.
"The greatest athlete must have special levels of hand-eye coordination, strength, speed, power and body control. This person must also be a clutch performer."
Any cyclist meets those criteria, easily. Lance certainly has all of those qualities, and in spades. If he can't be considered great, then great has no meaning. Just watch stage 15 of this years race if you doubt any of those, or watch him deftly skip around Beloki, go off-road and save his tour - at speeds our friendly columnists would be lucky to be alive at.
That being said (and taking nothing from Armstrong, he's a once in a lifetime performer - I can tell my kids one day I watched him ride, like I'll tell them I saw Bonds hit, and Jordan dunk) the implication that cycle racing takes nothing but stamina and endurance is so laughable, but such a common perception.
The tactics, mental games, and pure handling skills required to just finish a race are much more difficult than almost anything in any other professional sport, let alone doing that for 5.5 hours a day for 3 weeks straight, while so fatigued you can't see straight at times.
"The greatest athlete must have special levels of hand-eye coordination, strength, speed, power and body control. This person must also be a clutch performer."
Any cyclist meets those criteria, easily. Lance certainly has all of those qualities, and in spades. If he can't be considered great, then great has no meaning. Just watch stage 15 of this years race if you doubt any of those, or watch him deftly skip around Beloki, go off-road and save his tour - at speeds our friendly columnists would be lucky to be alive at.
#33
1.64x10^6 posts
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's funny; cycling and running are very similar in terms of conditioning required and what makes an athlete excel in each sport, but you never see anyone deny that runners are athletes or say that track and field events aren't sports.
#34
Spinmeister
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tempe,AZ
Posts: 623
Bikes: Scattante Carbon, Full Ultegra
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally posted by doonster
I've just read both articles - seem reasonable, intelligent and consitently argued. I agree to some extent, too.
He isn't saying Lance isn't an athlete, or that cycling is non-athletic, he is saying that it takes more skills (particularly hand-eye coordination) combined with Lance's other attributes (stamina, "clutch" etc) to make the world's greatest. Do I necessarily agree with all his other contenders? No.
I think some of you should take a little more pause and read the articles carefully before trying to jump down his throat.
I've just read both articles - seem reasonable, intelligent and consitently argued. I agree to some extent, too.
He isn't saying Lance isn't an athlete, or that cycling is non-athletic, he is saying that it takes more skills (particularly hand-eye coordination) combined with Lance's other attributes (stamina, "clutch" etc) to make the world's greatest. Do I necessarily agree with all his other contenders? No.
I think some of you should take a little more pause and read the articles carefully before trying to jump down his throat.
#35
I am a lonely visitor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Where even Richard Nixon has got soul
Posts: 2,630
Bikes: Michelle Pfieffer, the Carbon Fiber Wonder Bike: A Kestrel 200 SCI Repainted in glorious mango; Old Paintless, A Litespeed Obed; The Bike With No Name: A Bianchi Eros; RegularBike: A Parkpre Comp Ltd rebuilt as a singlespeed.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
OK. I read the article. It seems that the author objects to Lance being called the "world's greatest athlete." He has a point. He doesn't say that Lance is not an athlete. He doesn't say that Lance is not a great athlete. He underestimates what it takes to win the TdF, and he dismisses cycling as not being a "major sport." That is typical, sadly parochial American sports journalism. Then again, to say that Lance is the "world's greatest athlete" is hyperbole. Heck, even fans of cycling like to argue whether Lance is greater than Merckx was.
So the author is a bit of a bonehead. He makes a point. I hope that he would say the same thing about Barry Bonds or anyone else branded as the "world's greatest athlete."
I love the Nike commercial. Lance can't tell a joke or make cheese. He sure can ride a bike though!
So the author is a bit of a bonehead. He makes a point. I hope that he would say the same thing about Barry Bonds or anyone else branded as the "world's greatest athlete."
I love the Nike commercial. Lance can't tell a joke or make cheese. He sure can ride a bike though!
__________________
Religion is a good thing for good people and a bad thing for bad people. --H. Richard Niebuhr
Religion is a good thing for good people and a bad thing for bad people. --H. Richard Niebuhr
#36
Breaker of Spokes
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: N. Virginia
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Just read this article... I can't believe this guy has a job. What a shame. Not only is he putting down Armstrong, but the entire sport of cycling. It's a shame that someone like this who is supposed to give a fair and balanced opinion about all sports chooses to put the person and sport down instead of doing some research and finding out what the real deal is. He's obviously showing his bias toward more "American" sports that involve a ball and contact.
Hopefully an article like this will generate a lot of letters to his editor that point out what a complete and utter imbecile he really is. Here's to hoping anyway...
Hopefully an article like this will generate a lot of letters to his editor that point out what a complete and utter imbecile he really is. Here's to hoping anyway...
#37
0^0
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 4,056
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
He has a legit point, and no he didn't say Lance wasn't an athlete...But he made it sound like cycling is a lame sport, all the stick and ball games are great, and that those(the stick and ball games) are were one would in fact find the worlds greatest athlete.
He could have written and awesome article on the subject calling someone the "worlds greatest athlete, but instead he decided to write something cynical that comes off as cycling bashing.
Cynics abound in our society, how about some non smoke-up-the rear, in-depth writing???
He could have written and awesome article on the subject calling someone the "worlds greatest athlete, but instead he decided to write something cynical that comes off as cycling bashing.
Cynics abound in our society, how about some non smoke-up-the rear, in-depth writing???
__________________
Booyah!!
Booyah!!
#38
riding a Pinarello Prince
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Downtown Toronto,Canada
Posts: 2,409
Bikes: Pinarello, Prince and an FP5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
this guy is from Mars, calling cycling as not a sport,
__________________
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
"Racso", the well oiled machine;)
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Yeah. My complaint, which is the same as in the other thread I started about the Betting Fool article, is that it isn't particularly original. Basically the major thesis is: Cycling doesn't require great athletic skill. Minor thesis: All LA does is cycle. Conclusion: LA isn't a great athlete. Same basic argument as the Betting Fool and Ron Borges in last year's msnbc.com article.
Lame.
Lame.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 590
Bikes: Trek 8000 (I'm testing a prototype).
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I actually agree with the guy.
Last year, some wannabe shock journalist wrote the same article, but he claimed that Armstrong wasn't an athlete at all. That is ignorance. To him, I would challenge him to go on an uphill ride with Lance (or any of us here). I think the guy would soon retract his statements.
However, the guy still gives props to Lance. He acknowledges that the man has phenomenal stamina and has overcome major obstacles. I do agree, skill is required in cycling. But I really don't think cycling skill is what separates the men from the boys. Skill only gets you so far in cycling. When it comes to sports like basketball and hockey, the best not only have great strength and stamina, they have skills far above anyone else.
Do I think that Lance should have been in the top 100 athletes of all time? Yes. Do I think he should have been in the top 10? Well, maybe 10 at the highest.
Last year, some wannabe shock journalist wrote the same article, but he claimed that Armstrong wasn't an athlete at all. That is ignorance. To him, I would challenge him to go on an uphill ride with Lance (or any of us here). I think the guy would soon retract his statements.
However, the guy still gives props to Lance. He acknowledges that the man has phenomenal stamina and has overcome major obstacles. I do agree, skill is required in cycling. But I really don't think cycling skill is what separates the men from the boys. Skill only gets you so far in cycling. When it comes to sports like basketball and hockey, the best not only have great strength and stamina, they have skills far above anyone else.
Do I think that Lance should have been in the top 100 athletes of all time? Yes. Do I think he should have been in the top 10? Well, maybe 10 at the highest.
#41
Go Boilermakers!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Avon, Ohio
Posts: 272
Bikes: Cannondale R3000, Paramount Series 5, Trek 990, Cannondale M400, Schwinn World Sport (Cyclo cross)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I had to send this guy a little reply. His email is at the bottom of the article.
"Why don't you put your money where your mouth is if it is so easy. It's funny I played football basketball, track and cross country in school and cycling is by far the most physical and very strategic. I would be interested to see you on a decent at speeds in excess of 60 MPH. It's funny to hear opinions like yours because most people who shoot their mouth off about everything are good at only that."
"Why don't you put your money where your mouth is if it is so easy. It's funny I played football basketball, track and cross country in school and cycling is by far the most physical and very strategic. I would be interested to see you on a decent at speeds in excess of 60 MPH. It's funny to hear opinions like yours because most people who shoot their mouth off about everything are good at only that."
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 2,275
Bikes: Cervelo Soliost
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This line is too funny "Armstrong didn't have to throw, catch, run, jump, dive, tackle, dribble a ball or hit a 92-mph slider. "
Jump? catch? So i see now, to be a pro athlete you have to be an idiot. You have to jump or catch or run. So everyone on the playground is an athlete. I see. They should pay these people who get paid to run and jump and catch in shiny nickels.
Jump? catch? So i see now, to be a pro athlete you have to be an idiot. You have to jump or catch or run. So everyone on the playground is an athlete. I see. They should pay these people who get paid to run and jump and catch in shiny nickels.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hudson Valley
Posts: 111
Bikes: Sequoia
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
John Canzano's article is verbal diarrhea. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on an issue. The "greatest" of anything is always an interesting discussion. I just find his argument sophomoric at best. I would expect an intelligent discussion from a professional writer. His opinion is obvious. His reasoning is weak. There are many people on this forum who are better writers...many of them in this thread!
#44
0^0
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 4,056
Bikes: Redline Monocog,Surly Crosscheck, Lemond Reno
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Skill I think, is extremely important in cycling, and without the skill to match stamina, I don't think one would be a succesful racer. I also submit that very few sports require the amount of mental ability that cycling demands. Try singletrack at speed, try DH at insane speeds, and on the road, it's nothing but focus. Hockey comes close.
__________________
Booyah!!
Booyah!!
#45
DEADBEEF
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Catching his breath alongside a road near Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 12,234
Bikes: 1999 K2 OzM, 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
Lance's impromptu cyclocrossing in stage 9 more than disproves the argument that cycling doesn't require hand-eye coordination and skill. And I agree with fubar5, that the author obviously has never seen much less tried snaking down a singletrack and hopping slippery roots or clearing logs.
__________________
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,665
Bikes: 2012 Trek Madone 6.2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
oln highlights with LA answering questions and when asked about when he fell.Wasnt that nice of jan to wait.I dont think he did.Not until TH told everybody to wait up.He said TH was the reason.He said by the look on jan's face,he was going.
#47
Go Boilermakers!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Avon, Ohio
Posts: 272
Bikes: Cannondale R3000, Paramount Series 5, Trek 990, Cannondale M400, Schwinn World Sport (Cyclo cross)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Let's not waste any more time on this jerk. We all know the truth.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I love how he speaks as if everyone can ride a bicycle and no one can "run". I bet more people can run than those which can ride a bicycle.
#50
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
While these Bonds, Ali, and many of the others featured in your article are great athletes, how many of them have had to overcome feats such as being told "you have about a 3% chance you are going to live"? Being taken to the brink of death and back can certainly change a person, and make them better. If you didn't see how many close calls Armstrong had to deal with in the 2003 Tour de France, you might want to watch the tapes again. I don't see Michael Jordan, or Barry Bonds, or Muhammed Ali take life into their hands on a daily basis, flying down hills in excess of 70 miles an hour, knowing that a few grains of sand can literally KILL you because your back wheel slips out from under you. Joseba Beloki for instance, or Fabio Casartelli. What makes him the greatest athlete? Who knows. There are many things that make him great. But to say bicycling is not athletic is a crock. I'd like to see you bike the Trek Across Maine, which starts at the New Hampshire Border in the White Mountains, and goes to Belfast. In 3 days. 180+ Miles. And not get on your bike, or do anything, BEFORE you start the ride. If you think there's no "hand-eye" coordination, Take your hands off the handlebars, and close your eyes simultaneously. Or maybe try looking behind you and not at the road for 5 minutes. Do you think you'd fall? Probably. You think you'd get hurt in that fall? Oh yeah. How about careening down a mountainside with 100 other cyclists wanting to get ahead of you? You have to know what is around you in order NOT to hurt yourself or your opponents. And you know what? It's NOT about the bike...It's so much more. Yeah, bicyclists might look peaceful on the road, but the only reason that we have to be peaceful is because cars are so much bigger than us, and we have so much more to be concerned about if we enfuriate a car driver... The only way that we can safely express ourselves is in print, or vocally. You try bicycling on a 6 lane highway, and see how YOU do...Or try cycling 100 miles in a day...
Good luck...and don't get hit!
Good luck...and don't get hit!