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Old 09-30-07, 06:22 PM   #1
Gagonthis
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who was in the right?? (opinion needed)

( Just got back from the Apple Cider century, a ride in Michigan that sees close to 5000 participants, and something happened to me today that has never happened in my twelve years of recreational cycling. I wanted to get your opinion to see who was the "dick". me or the other guy.

this happned about mile 35 of a very crowded ride in the farm roads of michigan. I normally do these rides by myself. I typically ride at about a 17-20mph pace. I get passed by a lot of hard core roadies, the only people I pass are moms on mountain bikes. anyway, today i got behind this other guy and was trying to keep up with him, for a little while anyway. We had passed each other a few time then on one occassion he suddenly pulled off to the side and made some comment about me "riding his ass the whole way". I was drafting but no more than a few minutes and then mostly when we were going down hill where my momentum carried me to his wheel I came back with "Its not a race, so lighten up".(hard to come up with witty stuff in the heat of the m0ment).
He said that I should "do a little work"
I called him a dick and rode away.

So was I wrong, or was he. Personally I dont mind when people draft off of me. Im 6'0 and 230lbs. so I see it as a contribution to humanity especially on a windy day.

let me know what you think
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Old 09-30-07, 06:29 PM   #2
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You were both wrong, but he was wrong first.
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Old 09-30-07, 06:34 PM   #3
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Awful big for a 13 year old.
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Old 09-30-07, 06:44 PM   #4
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you weren't a dick.

you were a raging jackass.....but not a dick.


hehehe.
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Old 09-30-07, 07:13 PM   #5
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Don't let people like that get to you. if you stew over it for the next 65 mi, than its a century wasted. the
"whatever dude" response is a classic middle-of-the-road. a healthy "f you too!" feels good too, but it doesnt fix the situation. so, neither of you was in the right, you were both wrong in different ways.
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Old 09-30-07, 07:14 PM   #6
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How do you ask people if they mind being drafted? How do you tell people that you don't like being drafted?

What's wrong with the direct approach?

"I'm right on your wheel. Is that a problem for you?"
"It makes me nervous to have someone drafting behind me."

FWIW I don't draft with people who I don't know.
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Old 09-30-07, 07:39 PM   #7
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I'm used to riding by myself, and would feel uncomfortable either being right behind somebody else, or having somebody right behind me. It's not a matter of who does the work so much as a just a tailgating/ safety/ personal space issue. Same reason you don't "draft" people when you drive on the freeway.
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Old 09-30-07, 08:35 PM   #8
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I draft off people. People draft off me.
If I do not want someone drafting off of me I slow down and wave them by.
In my world you were fine and the other rider is not.
Though on my commute I tend to avoid drafting. Situations where one is expecting to be alone are a different animal than an organized ride.
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Old 09-30-07, 10:04 PM   #9
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It's always polite to ask and to take your turn pulling. Sometimes people just want to be left alone.
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Old 09-30-07, 10:09 PM   #10
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Back to riding by yourself or learn to share the road . . . or the drafting duties.
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Old 10-01-07, 03:08 AM   #11
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Hooking onto someones wheel momentarily when you're unable to pass because (enter reason here) shouldn't upset the average person...keeping in mind the laws of average.
Hooking onto someones wheel and mooching without helping is another story...I'd need to hear his side.
There's three sides to every story; his, yours and the truth.
You might have been a little too quick to use the "D" word...
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Old 10-01-07, 03:27 AM   #12
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The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. He will be likelier to run into potholes and ride over debris.

The person being drafted is unaffected by someone drafting. What's the problem here? He is obviously a stronger rider. If he were riding "alone" his pace would be just the same. I don't understand why someone would be anything other than flattered by someone drafting him.
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Old 10-01-07, 04:05 AM   #13
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He was wrong for being rude -- he could have asked you nicely to take a turn up front. Sharing the hard work seems fair to me.

You were wrong for choosing what sounds like a pretty gross username on BikeForums.
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Old 10-01-07, 04:25 AM   #14
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The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. He will be likelier to run into potholes and ride over debris.

The person being drafted is unaffected by someone drafting. What's the problem here? He is obviously a stronger rider. If he were riding "alone" his pace would be just the same. I don't understand why someone would be anything other than flattered by someone drafting him.
Yeah, right, because no commuter cyclist drafting me ever stopped paying attention and rode up my ass, taking both of us out

If you want to sit on my wheel, you better damn well ask, or else you're going to find yourself on the receving end of an impolite exchange, especially if you don't pull through and do some work, you lazy *******.

What's so hard about politely asking, "mind if I draft for a bit?"
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Old 10-01-07, 05:38 AM   #15
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The rider drafting is the who is at risk: He will crash if he "crosses wheels", the puller will be unaffected. He will be likelier to run into potholes and ride over debris.

The person being drafted is unaffected by someone drafting. What's the problem here? He is obviously a stronger rider. If he were riding "alone" his pace would be just the same. I don't understand why someone would be anything other than flattered by someone drafting him.
Not always true. If the front rider is inexpreienced and over corrects when his rear wheel is hit he can go down. He may train by himself and not be used to drafting or he may have been tired and could not concentrate on managing the situation.

It is not unreasonable to ask someone you do not know to not draft off you. But like others have said, it can be done nicely.
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Old 10-01-07, 05:41 AM   #16
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He was wrong for being rude -- he could have asked you nicely to take a turn up front. Sharing the hard work seems fair to me.

You were wrong for choosing what sounds like a pretty gross username on BikeForums.
I'm a Dentist. get your mind out of the gutter.
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Old 10-01-07, 05:43 AM   #17
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He was wrong for being rude -- he could have asked you nicely to take a turn up front. Sharing the hard work seems fair to me.

You were wrong for choosing what sounds like a pretty gross username on BikeForums.
I'm a Dentist. get your mind out of the gutter.
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Old 10-01-07, 06:27 AM   #18
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I'm used to riding by myself, and would feel uncomfortable either being right behind somebody else, or having somebody right behind me. It's not a matter of who does the work so much as a just a tailgating/ safety/ personal space issue. Same reason you don't "draft" people when you drive on the freeway.
I'm with you here. Personal space issue. It creeps me out to have some stranger on my tail when there's plenty of room to pass.
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Old 10-01-07, 06:31 AM   #19
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I'm with you here. Personal space issue. It creeps me out to have some stranger on my tail when there's plenty of room to pass.
And it's not just personal space. Having someone on his wheel places additional obligations on him such as maintaining a steady pace. Unless he's volunteered to take on this burden, he may see having someone sucking his wheel as an additional hassle.
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Old 10-01-07, 06:38 AM   #20
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You don't need to be rude about it, just start slowing down. A draft is no good when you're doing 5kph.
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Old 10-01-07, 06:58 AM   #21
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Ladies, ladies....settle down please......what about both of you stopping and having a good ol' manly punch up to work it out?
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Old 10-01-07, 07:28 AM   #22
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I wonder if THAT'S what some woman was doing when she hit me? Drafting? I didn't know she was there until I stopped and she crashed into me. Although she was entirely at fault, a whole trail and she had to ride right on my back tire, I felt bad because she only had 1 leg and she fell over when she hit me.
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Old 10-01-07, 08:14 AM   #23
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Actually, when drafting, the puller also gets some positive effect off the airflow dynamic in that the turbulence pocket is further behind, so less drag on both riders. Granted, at the relatively low speed of a bicycle the effect is less than that achieved in NASCAR, but it is there and measurable.
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Old 10-01-07, 09:33 AM   #24
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( Just got back from the Apple Cider century, a ride in Michigan that sees close to 5000 participants, and something happened to me today that has never happened in my twelve years of recreational cycling. I wanted to get your opinion to see who was the "dick". me or the other guy.
You never said how close to his wheel you were. In rides smaller than this one I expect to have someone on my wheel unless I'm working my way through a mass of slower riding cyclists. And for much of the ride I expect to be on someones wheel.

But there is a difference between 6 inches of less and 2 feet. If 6 inches then yes you are a dick and a fool. At 2 feet he is a dick and a fool.
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Old 10-01-07, 10:06 AM   #25
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Actually, when drafting, the puller also gets some positive effect off the airflow dynamic in that the turbulence pocket is further behind, so less drag on both riders. Granted, at the relatively low speed of a bicycle the effect is less than that achieved in NASCAR, but it is there and measurable.
In theory yes, but even then the effect would be too small to feel. In practice, at endurance speeds (not time trial), the effect is likely too small to even measure... The slightest amount of crosswind would blow the bubble away anyway.
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