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Quit Whining And Conserve Gasoline

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Quit Whining And Conserve Gasoline

Old 09-01-03, 03:44 PM
  #26  
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Originally posted by headn4thehills
Its good that people are taking steps to decrease the use of fuels, but when their profits drop, they raise the prices as well. They need to post their record profits. Regulation is whats needed, and we need to have a say in the matter.
This last part I can't agree with. What is going to happen to those companies when they aren't making a profit? They lose the ability to pay their debts, which means they lose the ability to hire competant workers and to obtain raw materials. That means they are no longer able to make a product, and cease to exist. There is suddenly one less competitor and the supply is also reduced.
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Old 09-01-03, 07:07 PM
  #27  
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Actually, the market for gas and oil really isn't much of a free market. The nation that controls the largest oil reserves (Saudi Arabia) turns on and off the spigots to set world oil prices at what they feel is an optimum price, neither to low (thus decreasing their income) or too high (thus decreasing demand and also potentially decreasing their income). Because the Saudis control such a large amount of the world's oil reserves and much of the world's excess production, their Ministry of Oil in effect controls the world oil price-- and in effect, the pump price.

It could also be argued that the U.S.'s support of the Saudi government is a de facto oil subsidy. During the first gulf war, for instance, the Saudis increased production at the behest of the Bush Sr. White House in order to keep prices low. The current White House (and all before it since the 70's) has maintained friendly relations with Saudi Arabia, even allegedy refusing to release parts of a 9/11 report to avoid embarrassing this ally-- although it should be noted the Saudis asked for the full report to be released (it is a matter of some debate if this was an honest request).

In addition, "regulation" of oil prices by governments other than the Saudis would have little, if any, real effect on oil prices-- because those governments do not control oil reserves. Any attempt to regulate prices in the U.S., for example, would have to set the price artificially high-- not low. Drilling in the Alaskan refugee is no solution, either-- the entire area could turn out to be a dry hole on the scale of Mukluk, the most infamous and expensive dry hole in oil exploration history (located not far from ANWAR). And even optimistic estimates have ANWAR producing a mere drop in the bucket of U.S. demand.

Face it, folks-- the price of gas at the pump is controlled largely by the government of another country. It's not much of a free market.
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Old 09-01-03, 08:45 PM
  #28  
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I'd be curious to see exactly how high the price has to go before there is any significant impact on consumption. I do know we've barely scratched the surface.

To those that always wheel out the 'effects on transport of goods' argument in these discussions: consider this. The preponderance of heavy transportation of goods over great distance has come about exactly because of the availability of cheap fuel and is by no means a given. All that is required is a decentralisation of reources - small scale farming, smaller more distributed shopping districts etc. Heck, that's what we had not so long ago - there's no reason whatsoever that we can't go back to it other than a lack of will.

Of course, the wild variability of petrol prices defies logic. I've seen the price vary up to 10c/l over the course of ONE DAY. Every visit to the pump is a crap shoot If the government is to do anything about petrol prices, how about some stability, even if it's at the higher price?
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Old 09-01-03, 09:02 PM
  #29  
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Gas is CHEAP! Compare the rate of inflation to the increase in the price of gasoline.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the fact that the Hershey bar I paid 35 cents for just twenty years ago, now sells for over twice that! (and don't you dare tell me I need to conserve chocolate!)
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Old 09-01-03, 09:46 PM
  #30  
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That's the next thing we need to boycott: CHOCOLATE! LOL Just kidding, if I had to cut out chocolate, I'd have to cut out coffee, too. LOL Need the caffeine! ~~Bren
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Old 09-01-03, 09:50 PM
  #31  
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Originally posted by headn4thehills
We had all better complain about fuel costs. Riding a bike, or driving a hybrid automobile, we all suffer the increased cost of fuels. Every time you go to the store, you are absorbing the fuel costs in the products you buy due to the increased costs of shipping the goods.
NOt quite to the extent that the media claims it would. I think you'll find most companies that retail products of any kind base their prices on what they perceive their consumers are willing to pay, rather than on the cost of production. The same thing goes on at all parts of the production line.
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Old 09-01-03, 10:04 PM
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Missouri has the solution to this problem. By having an incompetent executive, legislature and electorate they are allowing their roads to degrade to third world status.

By incurring increasingly high suspension repair costs the average Missouri driver finds they have less to spend on gasoline. I am not kidding, by much. It is so sad in this state. It is also a state where sprawl has gone unchecked. We will end up living in suburbs only SUVs can drive to due to the conditions of the roads. SuckCity MO
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Old 09-01-03, 11:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally posted by iamlucky13

Some of these people you have to reply to with, "Who is John Galt?"
Bingo... But those who don't know... well... don't know.

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Old 09-02-03, 08:31 AM
  #34  
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Gas is CHEAP! Compare the rate of inflation to the increase in the price of gasoline.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the fact that the Hershey bar I paid 35 cents for just twenty years ago, now sells for over twice that! (and don't you dare tell me I need to conserve chocolate!)
great point! i don't know if it is still true, but just recently a study noted that the "high" gas prices today are much lower than the cheap prices of the 50s and 60s in today's dollars --- the prices of most products like milk or toothpaste or electricity have risen much much more than gas. i think the article was saying in relative terms, the mid 1990s had the all-time US cheapest gas prices.

gas prices only _seem_ expensive b/c they were previously so low that almost no one noticed how much gas was used. and now people have to pay for something that used to be "almost free"

but of course all the driving has not been "almost free" as we've paved up the cities, created miles and miles of ugly low-density and isolated sprawl and strip-malls (anyone LOVE the beauty of their local strip-mall? does it incite feelings of community and pleasure?) that now FORCE most people to be slaves to the car as well as "involuntarily/unknowingly" pay the costs to the environment, personal safety (#1 killer for those under 35) and quality of life costs.

do _I_ want to live in some low density sprawl where walking and biking are difficult, potentially dangerous and surely not pleasant? no but i am fortunate enough that i _can_ pay more to live in a real community but many do not have the luxury to choose that). sadly for many the "american dream" has become the "american nightmare" - "forced" to buy a house in the suburbs and spend a large portion of their lives dependent on the automobile... man i'm glad i became a bike commuter before i got sucked into that depressing life of spending hours in the car stuck in traffic so i can pay for my car and the insurance so i can sit in traffic to get to work to earn the money to pay for my car so i can have such a great "life of materialism"...
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Old 09-02-03, 11:28 AM
  #35  
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Originally posted by Moose
Gas is CHEAP! Compare the rate of inflation to the increase in the price of gasoline.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the fact that the Hershey bar I paid 35 cents for just twenty years ago, now sells for over twice that!
Good point. How about the price of a movie ticket!
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Old 09-02-03, 11:34 AM
  #36  
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Originally posted by Chris L
The quickest way to ensure people reduced gasoline use would be to simply stop subsidising it. Of course, any government that ever did that would be dead meat within the next five minutes.

You petrol is subsidised?
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Old 09-02-03, 05:47 PM
  #37  
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Originally posted by belfast-biker
You petrol is subsidised?
At least in Queensland it is. It's subsidised AND taxed. Figure that one out if you can.
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Old 09-02-03, 09:12 PM
  #38  
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Originally posted by belfast-biker
You petrol is subsidised?
As Allister said, fuel in this country is both subsidised and taxed. Bit of brilliance that is! Having seen your location, it's probable that your fuel is considerably more costly than ours, so maybe yours isn't subsidised the way ours is (Australia claims to have the third cheapest fuel in the world).
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