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  1. #1
    eternalvoyage
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    Heavy-duty Antiperspirants?

    I heard a doctor mention something about certain antiperspirants that are much stronger and more effective than the typical ones. They use another type of aluminum compound. Apparently they are more expensive, but I am thinking that they are probably worth it in some situations.

    Unfortunately, there were not a lot of other details given -- it was mentioned somewhat in passing.

    Does anyone know any more about this?, what these other compounds are, and where these antiperspirants are available?

  2. #2
    family on bikes nancy sv's Avatar
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    Certain Dri. No need to say more.
    WE DID IT! Our little family of four cycled 17,300 miles from Alaska to Argentina! The trip of a lifetime for sure. www.familyonbikes.org

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    If you shave your underarms you will almost totally eliminate all odor.
    .
    .

    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

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    Stratiotika ktemata
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    I don't think odor is the issue, since he was talking about perspiration.

  5. #5
    Sometimes knows stuff. rmfnla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niles H. View Post
    I heard a doctor mention something about certain antiperspirants that are much stronger and more effective than the typical ones. They use another type of aluminum compound. Apparently they are more expensive, but I am thinking that they are probably worth it in some situations.

    Unfortunately, there were not a lot of other details given -- it was mentioned somewhat in passing.

    Does anyone know any more about this?, what these other compounds are, and where these antiperspirants are available?
    For high-performance cycling you want one that uses titanium compound, not aluminum...
    Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...

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    The effective formulas are those that are 15% to 20% aluminum zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly. You can find that forumula in ultra-expensive brands, but you can also find that forumula in brands selling for $2 at Walgreens or CVS.

    Most people find that if they use such products every day for a week, they have very little perspiration. At that point, using the produce three or four days a week may be all you need.

    As most women know, shaving your underarms and washing with hot water and lots of soap helps as well. The fact most men, other than swimmers, don't shave, and that many men seem allergic to soap explains why most men don't smell as nice as most women.

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    Gitane GranTour Navy_Chief's Avatar
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    The trick to some of these is to apply them before bed, it sounds weird but it really works.It may take a few days to become more effective also. You can apply them again in the morning also but it is really the bedtime application that make the most difference.

    Chief

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    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    This stuff is supposed to be natural. It's basically a rock and I have yet to use up
    the sampler I got.
    http://www.thecrystal.com/browse.cfm/MCID/1
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  9. #9
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Why do you need the strong deodorant? Can't you just shower after a race or training ride?

  10. #10
    Opt-in Member GreenGrasshoppr's Avatar
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    And if you still stink, you can apply that alcohol gel hand sanitizer to the bacterial colony too

  11. #11
    family on bikes nancy sv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    This stuff is supposed to be natural. It's basically a rock and I have yet to use up
    the sampler I got.
    http://www.thecrystal.com/browse.cfm/MCID/1
    I'm fascinated by this! How hard is the rock? Would I need to pack it carefully on tour so it doesn't crumble, or would it hold up well under tough touring conditions?
    WE DID IT! Our little family of four cycled 17,300 miles from Alaska to Argentina! The trip of a lifetime for sure. www.familyonbikes.org

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    Senior Member coldfeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    This stuff is supposed to be natural. It's basically a rock and I have yet to use up
    the sampler I got.
    http://www.thecrystal.com/browse.cfm/MCID/1
    I have been using this stuff for 8 months now, the stick is maybe 1/3 gone. It's pretty tough, you could break it, but you'd have to step on it or something. It is purely a deodorant though, does not stop sweat.
    It does however, entirely eliminate BO. It's good enough, that at a pinch I can go 2 days without noticeable odor.

  13. #13
    Just a geek tdister's Avatar
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    I did not have good luck with the crystal. where I could normally go 24 hours without any noticeable odor with normal deoderant (speed stick type stuff), I would smell myself by the end of hte day witht he crystals. Guess it depends on the user.

    oh, they will def crack if you drop them on a hard floor, more like shatter.

    I tried the spray version too, it seemed to work a little better until all of the disolved crystal reformed, for some reason. After that it was just water spraying out.

    I can understand not wanting to sweat while in an office or the like, but antiperspirants geared towards sports just seems silly.
    Surly LHT complete, Surly Pacer Complete, '94 Marin Muirwoods....and a couple others

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    DM4
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    The body has pores and sweats for a reason. If I had a severe problem I would consult a physician before I go clogging all those pores. If excessive sweating is occurring only during exercise I don't see where this would be an issue. On the other hand, if I were sweating through the Armani suits I would seek relief.

  15. #15
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    What everyone said... I have taken the rock to Italy, and on a week long trip. After
    cycling all morning when we tour we stop for lunch at a restaurant. I don't want to fumigate the place

    It's small, tough, and if you're lucky a health food store nearby has it.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  16. #16
    Senior Member coldfeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdister View Post
    I did not have good luck with the crystal. where I could normally go 24 hours without any noticeable odor with normal deoderant (speed stick type stuff), I would smell myself by the end of hte day witht he crystals. Guess it depends on the user.

    oh, they will def crack if you drop them on a hard floor, more like shatter.

    I tried the spray version too, it seemed to work a little better until all of the disolved crystal reformed, for some reason. After that it was just water spraying out.

    I can understand not wanting to sweat while in an office or the like, but antiperspirants geared towards sports just seems silly.
    How bad did you smell? At the end of the day I can detect sweat, but "clean" sweat. I get no whiff of BO which is caused by bacteria on the skin. Most deodorants have at least a slight scent, this could be covering up the sweat smell?

  17. #17
    Just a geek tdister's Avatar
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    Not bad when I could first notice, but if I ddn't shower then or the next morning I would not make it thorough the next day without feeling uncomfortable about my smell, something I can usually get away with. I really don't think it was any fragrance issues as I usually use unscented (though most still have some scent).

    They worked better than nothing, just not very well for me, and I wanted it to work. My girlfriend noticed too, and without me asking...
    Surly LHT complete, Surly Pacer Complete, '94 Marin Muirwoods....and a couple others

  18. #18
    eternalvoyage
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    What everyone said... I have taken the rock to Italy, and on a week long trip. After
    cycling all morning when we tour we stop for lunch at a restaurant. I don't want to fumigate the place

    It's small, tough, and if you're lucky a health food store nearby has it.
    Sounds good.

    ****
    Alanbikehouston's remarks were spot on.

    And they were very helpful -- thank you.
    Last edited by Niles H.; 01-14-08 at 05:16 PM.

  19. #19
    Evil Genius oopfoo's Avatar
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    I've been told that diet has a lot to do with your body smell. In the case of BO, has anyone some ideas about what makes you smell worse?

    Of course, your normal body chemistry will vary from person to person, but there must be some guidelines.
    -- Michael

  20. #20
    One speed: FAST ! fordfasterr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oopfoo View Post
    I've been told that diet has a lot to do with your body smell. In the case of BO, has anyone some ideas about what makes you smell worse?

    Of course, your normal body chemistry will vary from person to person, but there must be some guidelines.


    I get irritations from antiperspirants. I spent my entire teen years with problems because of it but I thought that the only way to prevent the funk was to use antiperspirants...

    In an attempt to allow my skin to heal, I decided to stop using antiperspirants and just went without them for a few weeks. I would shave regularly to help keep any odors away but at some point the funk would always return.

    I started using regular deodorants, and I found that after a few weeks, my body adapted and I do not have anymore funk AND no more irritations.

    I am cured. Thank you Jeebus.
    Florida Velodrome Association.
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  21. #21
    eternalvoyage
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    Quote Originally Posted by oopfoo View Post
    I've been told that diet has a lot to do with your body smell. In the case of BO, has anyone some ideas about what makes you smell worse?

    Of course, your normal body chemistry will vary from person to person, but there must be some guidelines.
    I'm still learning, but here are a few things I've learned so far:

    The odors are usually caused by microorganisms, often bacteria or fungi.

    Clean, fresh perspiration usually has very little odor, and it is relatively unobjectionable.

    What happens is that perspiration provides the moisture, oils and nutrients that feed the microorganisms. So they start reproducing. They multiply into the many billions. They give off metabolic byproducts and secretions. Some of these secretions (especially for certain microorganisms) have strong odors.

    This is why some cheeses smell the way they do. The milk and cream (like fresh, clean perspiration) have very little odor. It is the secretions from the microorganisms in the cheese, as they multiply into large numbers. Some of these species [there are many, many thousands of different species] have very strong odors, and so some cheeses have strong odors and flavors.

    "Fermentation" is a word that is used sometimes -- it just means that the microorganisms are multiplying in some kind of nutrient environment (milk, sweat, cheese, sourdough, etc.). Usually if it is warm and humid, it makes things even worse.

    So what makes you smell worse?

    If you don't wash often, there are more and more of these organisms multiplying on your skin (and in your clothes), and giving off odors.

    If you happen to have the wrong organisms present, you can have unusually strong and objectionable odors happening.

    One MD suggested that (if this is really the case -- if you really do have some bad ones growing) you can try to kill off those species, and establish another set of organisms on your skin.

    There is usually a set of different species on any given person. Some sets smell better than others.

    *****
    You can wash often, change clothes often, and minimize the colonies of microorganisms.

    You can avoid clothes that make it worse. You can treat clothes with substances that slow or inhibit the growth of microorganisms.

    (Apparently, you cannot eliminate them, only manage them.)
    Last edited by Niles H.; 01-24-08 at 03:00 PM.

  22. #22
    Just a geek tdister's Avatar
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    But foods can change your smell for sure. If I eat something with lots of curry, for example, I can smell it in my sweat for many days after. Cumin too.

    My vegetarian friends say they can smell frequent meat-eaters. They have a much more putrid stink than their fellow vegetarians/vegans.

    Garlic can to an extent, but I eat lots anyway so I don't notice.

    If you ever get a stink that won't go away (even after a shower you can still smell it lingering), get some baking soda and some vinegar to use in the shower.

    Try to build up a sweat, get into a hot shower and scrub with the soda, then let it sit a couple minutes. Now pour a little vinegar in your wet hands to rub under your arms. let it sit a minute, rinse and repeat. finish with just diluted vinegar wipe down.

    My buddy had some serious recurring BO problems and this helped immensely.
    Last edited by tdister; 01-24-08 at 03:40 PM.
    Surly LHT complete, Surly Pacer Complete, '94 Marin Muirwoods....and a couple others

  23. #23
    eternalvoyage
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    I agree that foods can cause some odors, on breath and skin; but they are usually not the really offensive and problematic ones that people are trying to deal with.

    Baking soda is great at dealing with odors.

    Part of what it does is change the pH -- most microorganisms are very sensitive to pH levels.

    I would guess that leaving some residue from a baking soda solution on clothes would change the environment enough to inhibit the growth of many microorganisms. It would not have to be harsh or strong, just enough to inhibit growth....

    Another thing that can help is to leave some kind of anti-fungal residue on the fibers. The same organisms that cause athelete's foot can also cause some serious odor problems as well, as can some of the other fungal organisms.

    Some synthetic fabrics include anti-microbial treatments that stay in the fibers and inhibit growth (some are impregnated with silver or copper).

    This has worked well in some fabrics. I believe Patagonia, among other companies, has had fabrics like this.

    *****
    What I've been wondering is: what are some of the better ways of ahieving this yourself, with fabrics you already own? I haven't tried it yet, but there are probably various ways of treating fabrics to minimize the growth of microorganisms.

    *****
    Some meditation teachers say that thoughts and emotions have or emit smells, and I think there is some truth to that.

    But I also think that the major (not the only, but the major) cause of the really offensive stuff -- the stuff that most people are trying to eliminate -- is the microorganisms and their secretions.
    Last edited by Niles H.; 01-25-08 at 01:38 PM.

  24. #24
    eternalvoyage
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdister View Post
    But foods can change your smell for sure. If I eat something with lots of curry, for example, I can smell it in my sweat for many days after. Cumin too.

    My vegetarian friends say they can smell frequent meat-eaters. They have a much more putrid stink than their fellow vegetarians/vegans.

    Garlic can to an extent, but I eat lots anyway so I don't notice.

    If you ever get a stink that won't go away (even after a shower you can still smell it lingering), get some baking soda and some vinegar to use in the shower.

    Try to build up a sweat, get into a hot shower and scrub with the soda, then let it sit a couple minutes. Now pour a little vinegar in your wet hands to rub under your arms. let it sit a minute, rinse and repeat. finish with just diluted vinegar wipe down.

    My buddy had some serious recurring BO problems and this helped immensely.
    The vinegar and baking soda sound like a good solution.

    There is also another factor to deal with in all this. Tests have been done to see how effective hand washing is at eliminating bacteria on and in the skin of the hands.

    One hand washing and rinsing got rid of some, but many billions remained.

    They checked after two, three, four, and five washings and rinsings.

    Each time many of the organisms were removed, but many others remained.

    Even after five washings, there were still plenty.

    Apparently the skin is a very rough surface on a microscopic level, and there are plenty of places for microorganisms to lodge.

    *****
    When showering, multiple latherings and rinsings, and use of a washcloth (or something like it) will help to eliminate larger numbers of microorganisms (and odors).

    The vinegar and baking soda probably serve a purpose as well.

    *****
    There is a test that will determine whether the odors in question are coming from the sweat itself, or from microorganisms of the skin.

    After showering thoroughly, then exercising vigorously (or going into a sauna), and working up a sweat quickly (so there is little time for the microorganisms to reproduce or recover their numbers), and wearing very clean (maybe even Cloroxed, to be sure) clothes, see what odors are present.

    [Or have someone (maybe a willing participant) with a sensitive nose do the checking.]

    If the sweat has little odor, the problem is probably with the microorganisms that have not yet reproduced into sufficient populations to give off enough quantities of secretions (and their odors) to be a problem.
    Last edited by Niles H.; 01-24-08 at 06:02 PM.

  25. #25
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    I quit using anti perspirants long ago because they were building up white crud on my shirts that wouldn't wash out. Just go with deoderant and be done with it.

    "It does however, entirely eliminate BO. It's good enough, that at a pinch I can go 2 days without noticeable odor."

    That reminds me of a joke Bette Middler told long ago. This old man goes to the doctor and says, "Doctor, I'm having problems with silent gas emission. Yesterday, I had 8 episodes of silent gas emission. The day before, 7. And I've had two sinde I've been here in your office."

    The doctor says, "Well, the first thing we'll do is check your hearing..."
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

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