Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-19-08, 12:59 PM   #1
raleighrider75
2 B Frank w/U
Thread Starter
 
raleighrider75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa,Ontario
Bikes: 1963,1965,1968 and 1971 Raleigh Sports
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is Campy THAT good?

I may be "sticking my fingers in the fan" on this one but here goes.
Is Campagnolo equipment THAT good to merit the extra expense or is it just a status thing?Is their stuff that much better than Shimano or Suntour?Your opinion on this would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by raleighrider75; 02-19-08 at 04:56 PM.
raleighrider75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 01:14 PM   #2
Whatsisname
Senior Member
 
Whatsisname's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dude campy parts are handmade by Italian virgins, of course its worth the extra expense.
Whatsisname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 02:40 PM   #3
SweetLou
Senior Member
 
SweetLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would have to say "No". It also has to do with what you are talking about. Many people believe the older Suntours were much superior to Campy. Just use what you like.
SweetLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 02:51 PM   #4
Timtruro
Senior Member
 
Timtruro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North Truro, MA
Bikes: Aegis Trident (Big Red)
Posts: 1,607
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsisname View Post
Dude campy parts are handmade by Italian virgins, of course its worth the extra expense.
where do you find one of those?
Timtruro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 03:31 PM   #5
markhr
POWERCRANK addict
 
markhr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Acton, West London, UK
Bikes:
Posts: 3,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
...the extra expense...
What extra expense, it's cheaper than shamino in this neck of the woods.

Just remember when comparing groupos that you need to make allowances for the superior quality of campagnolo parts. I'm not sure where sram fits in this but I'd hope that it's red is at least as good as dura ace.

In order of decreasing expense/quality
record
chorus
dura ace
centaur/ultegra SL
veloce/ultegra
mirage/105
__________________
shameless POWERCRANK plug
Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

Last edited by markhr; 02-19-08 at 03:47 PM.
markhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 03:37 PM   #6
JackTheLadd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhr View Post
What extra expense, it's cheaper than shamino in this neck of the woods.

Just remember when comparing groupos that you need to make allowances for the superior quality of campagnolo parts. I'm not sure where sram fits in this but I'd hope that it's red is at least as good as dura ace.

In order of decreasing expense/quality
record
chorus
dura ace
mirage/ultegra SL
veloce/ultegra
xenon/105
Either you're trolling, or your understanding of the Campy/Shimano lines is very out of whack...
JackTheLadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 03:39 PM   #7
moleman76
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: western Washington
Bikes: Stella
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Campagnolo cork-pullers are better than Shimano fishing reels.

And, I know the comparison is not apples-to-kumquats, but Brev. 1971 Campagnolo loose-ball hubs are smoother than any Shimmy-no 105's. This is based on personal experience with maintaining my classic bike and my son's newer one.

To each their own, and at least with much of the Campy gear, replacement parts are actually available.

I would say that the idea of the cassette, instead of freewheels, was a manor advance in the field.
moleman76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 03:42 PM   #8
markhr
POWERCRANK addict
 
markhr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Acton, West London, UK
Bikes:
Posts: 3,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheLadd View Post
Either you're trolling, or your understanding of the Campy/Shimano lines is very out of whack...
hardly - I've used both for years and campagnolo >>>> shamino quality. Just being able to rebuild campagnolo parts and not shamino puts campagnolo head and shoulders above immediately.

edit: it should also be noted that I [previously moderator editted to "he" from "this idiot" a.k.a. me] got centaur, mirage and veloce mixed up

edit2: <------ "this idiot" being ME! see above
__________________
shameless POWERCRANK plug
Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!

Last edited by markhr; 02-19-08 at 06:12 PM. Reason: removed minor insult
markhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 03:44 PM   #9
JackTheLadd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhr View Post
hardly - I've used both for years and campagnolo >>>> shamino quality. Just being able to rebuild campagnolo parts and not shamino puts campagnolo head and shoulders above immediately.
Either still trolling, or haven't read what you've written earlier...

Record
Chorus
Centaur
Veloce
Mirage
Xenon

Mirage and Ultegra SL?

edit: ok, saw your edit in the previous post...
JackTheLadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 04:01 PM   #10
markhr
POWERCRANK addict
 
markhr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Acton, West London, UK
Bikes:
Posts: 3,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheLadd View Post
...edit: ok, saw your edit in the previous post...
thanks, now I'm off to rub the calluses off my knuckles - I still haven't got the whole walking upright thing yet
__________________
shameless POWERCRANK plug
Recommended reading for all cyclists - Cyclecraft - Effective Cycling
Condor Cycles - quite possibly the best bike shop in London
Don't run red lights, wear a helmet, use hand signals, get some cycle lights(front and rear) and, FFS, don't run red lights!
markhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 04:22 PM   #11
swc7916
Senior Member
 
swc7916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Machias, WA
Bikes: Rodriguez Toucan tandem, Rodriguez Rainer Lite sport/touring
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
Is Campagnola equipment THAT good to merit the extra expense or is it just a status thing?
Do you mean whether they shift better? No. Campy has two advantages over Shimano: They are rebuildable whereas Shimano are throw-away, and many people (myself included) like the ergonomics of their brifters better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
Is their stuff that much better that Shimano or Suntour?
Ummm....Suntour has been out business for years.
swc7916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 04:38 PM   #12
raleighrider75
2 B Frank w/U
Thread Starter
 
raleighrider75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa,Ontario
Bikes: 1963,1965,1968 and 1971 Raleigh Sports
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by swc7916 View Post



Ummm....Suntour has been out business for years.
Ummm....They may be out of business but their stuff is still in use on alot of bikes out there.They may be gone but certainly not forgotten.

Last edited by raleighrider75; 02-19-08 at 04:58 PM.
raleighrider75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 05:10 PM   #13
jhota
blithering idiot
 
jhota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: beautiful coastal South Carolina
Bikes: 1991 Trek 930, 2005 Bianchi Eros, 2006 Nashbar "X," IRO Rob Roy
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SunTour went out of business, but now it's back. it's really not what it used to be. lots of low-end components for entry-level bikes.

Campagnolo vs. Shimano is a very personal thing. folks like what they like. and in the higher end of things (where gruppos cost $1600 - $1800), buy what you like and who cares what anyone thinks.

i like Campy better, personally. for me, it boils down to Campagnolo's brifters:

1. they look better. exposed cables are so 1970s.
2. i like the way they function better (at least, pre-2007).
3. this goes more to design philosophy than anything else, but they're repairable. if something inside breaks, i can order that part and replace it. if a Shimano brifter breaks, i have to throw it away and buy another.

and i move that Campy vs. Shimano vs. SRAM debates should be moved to P&R in the future. 'cause it's a religious debate, if we're going to be honest.
jhota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 07:13 PM   #14
raleighrider75
2 B Frank w/U
Thread Starter
 
raleighrider75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa,Ontario
Bikes: 1963,1965,1968 and 1971 Raleigh Sports
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's not meant to be a debate.I'm thinking on maybe getting Campy and I am really interested in your learned input(that's why I/we visit this site)but so far I don't hear enough to justify the expense.
I'm not being "passionate" about Shimano,it just appears to me to be a better bang for your buck.So far brifters and rebuildable parts are the only benefits I've heard.I don't care for brifters so that's out.Rebuildable parts,not enough.
I'm thinking it boils down to bragging rights.Having the stereotypical "superior" Italian parts(there once was a day when that was true).
P&R ?
raleighrider75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 07:23 PM   #15
maddyfish
Senior Member
 
maddyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ky. and FL.
Bikes: KHS steel SS
Posts: 3,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like mine alot. I ride in the rain alot, and the way shimano splits in half at the top, exposing all the internals to the elements bothers me. A poorly thought out idea.
I alos like the thumb shifters, unlike sora thumb shifters these actually can be reached by a human. And these are totally missing from the other Shimano shifters.
maddyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 07:30 PM   #16
SweetLou
Senior Member
 
SweetLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
I'm not being "passionate" about Shimano,it just appears to me to be a better bang for your buck.So far brifters and rebuildable parts are the only benefits I've heard.I don't care for brifters so that's out.Rebuildable parts,not enough.
There you go, you are now assuming that Campy's brifters are better. There are a lot of people that would disagree with this.

A better question might have been, "I'm thinking about getting xxx derailer, is it a good one?" Or maybe, "I'm planning on getting a new derailer and I am willing to pay xxx amount, any recommendations?" Instead, the question you asked is going to get a debate on forums, whether you meant it or not. In the end, it is going to be whichever one you like the most.
SweetLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 08:21 PM   #17
raleighrider75
2 B Frank w/U
Thread Starter
 
raleighrider75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa,Ontario
Bikes: 1963,1965,1968 and 1971 Raleigh Sports
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLou View Post
There you go, you are now assuming that Campy's brifters are better. There are a lot of people that would disagree with this.
Well if there are,you're the first to say.But that's what I'm looking for here.Input.I thought this forum was for the free exchange of knowledge and ideas.I'm not just interested in Campy derailleurs or hubs or cranks or even brifters singularly.I wanted to know what you people thought of all of it.Do you like this piece and not that or whatever.It's not which make I prefer.There's got to be good and bad things about anything.You see,I don't have any experience with Campy.I figured you might.
If it leads to a debate,well lets hope it's a healthy one.

Last edited by raleighrider75; 02-19-08 at 09:21 PM.
raleighrider75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 09:23 PM   #18
SweetLou
Senior Member
 
SweetLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, you also have not mentioned what you are looking for. I for one would take a Suntour Superbe over any vintage campy. I believe they are better. I also don't like Campy birfters, Shimano's fit my hands much better. Does that mean Campy's are not worth the price? I don't know about for you, but for me it does mean that.

You say you don't want a debate, but you are giving us nothing to go on but to debate which is better. If you don't know anything about Campy, go test ride a couple of Campy equipped bikes and see if you like them, then you can decide if the price is worth it to you. Campy, Shimano and SRAM all make good products. If you are looking at vintage, then Suntour also makes some very good components.

This forum is for the free exchange of ideas and knowledge. But saying that you are not interested in a certain product, but just a general idea which brand is better, than you are looking for a debate, which is fine. I like debates. If you want to know which is better, the Campy vs. Shimano debate has been going on for a long time and it will probably continue to go on for a long time. I might be the first person who prefers Shimano over Campy brifters in this thread, but do a search and you will find many others that agree. But which is better, SRAM. Actually, I have not used the double tap system, but I think it would be something I like.
SweetLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 10:28 PM   #19
Jarery
Senior Member
 
Jarery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Bikes:
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
Is Campy THAT good?
That question conjures up one other question in my mind. Is search THAT hard?

And to answer the question anyways, no.
Jarery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-08, 10:36 PM   #20
jhota
blithering idiot
 
jhota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: beautiful coastal South Carolina
Bikes: 1991 Trek 930, 2005 Bianchi Eros, 2006 Nashbar "X," IRO Rob Roy
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
... so far I don't hear enough to justify the expense.
i don't understand this part of your reply.

Campagnolo doesn't really cost any more than Shimano at comparable performance levels (carbon crank Record/Chorus prices aside).

Shimano's 105 groupset slots somewhere in between Campy's Mirage and Veloce gruppos. i've not been able to find a price on Mirage, but i found a 2008 Veloce gruppo for $150 less than the 2008 105 group.

Record will cost "extra," as will any Campy groups spec'd with carbon cranks instead of the standard aluminium. but there's not much real difference in the two companies' pricing (especially once you reach the "street" level).
jhota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-08, 12:23 AM   #21
Rev.Chuck
The Red Lantern
 
Rev.Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Raleigh NC
Bikes:
Posts: 5,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is very fortunate that Campy is servicable, otherwise you would be buying new Campy shifters every year or so.
I have to rebuild the same couple of sets of record shifters every year to replace the G-springs and carriers. The Campy shifters are updatable(If you have a nine speed shifter you can update it to ten)
If you look at durability, rating the time of first failure(Not counting the ability to rebuild the shifter and continue service) the Shimano shifters are far tougher than the Campy shifters. In the the past two years I have rebuilt more than a dozen right Record shifters and replaced one (crashed) DuraAce shifter(These were guys racing ). True a set of G-springs and a carrier(always replace the carrier even if it looks OK) is only a couple of bucks and if you do it yourself, there is no labor involved but it is still an hour of down time.
Shimano shifters can be torn down and reassembled, if you know what you are doing. So you can clean one jammed full of sand in a crash or with abroken off cable end in it. You just cannot replace broken parts, and they rarely break.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.

I am in the woods and I have gone crazy.
Rev.Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-08, 05:08 AM   #22
Cyclaholic
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
 
Cyclaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Bikes: several
Posts: 4,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Oooooh, a Campag Vs Shimano punch up.

Cyclaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-08, 09:28 AM   #23
raleighrider75
2 B Frank w/U
Thread Starter
 
raleighrider75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa,Ontario
Bikes: 1963,1965,1968 and 1971 Raleigh Sports
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Is search THAT hard?
No search isn't that hard.In fact I did before starting this thread.I was hoping to get more coherent replies.Not the usual squabble.
Quote:
i don't understand this part of your reply.
The bike in questions already has Shimano stuff on it(I don't have to spend ANY $ to leave it alone)
Quote:
Oooooh, a Campag Vs Shimano punch up.
This is exactly the thing I was trying to avoid.It seems you people can't talk about this particular subject without resorting to elitism and name-calling(at least that's what my search revealed).
I appreciate the people who honestly answered.The ones with attitude,all I can say is ,it figures.You've answered a question,just a different one.
Might as well let this thread die and fade away.I'm not gonna fan the flames of this ficticious(sp?)flame war.
Once again,thanks to the ones that answered.Ride on.

Last edited by raleighrider75; 02-20-08 at 09:33 AM.
raleighrider75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-08, 10:10 AM   #24
swc7916
Senior Member
 
swc7916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Machias, WA
Bikes: Rodriguez Toucan tandem, Rodriguez Rainer Lite sport/touring
Posts: 718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
Ummm....They may be out of business but their stuff is still in use on alot of bikes out there.They may be gone but certainly not forgotten.
Suntour stopped production of bicycle components in 1995. SR owns the name, but the current designs are not the same. This means that even if you can get NOS Suntour components, they are going to be at least 13 years old. Suntour stopped production at 7-speed systems, never had a brifter and I don't think that they had a freehub either. I have a Schwinn Ontare with 7-speed Suntour Sprint components that still works fine, but if anything breaks I will be looking on eBay for parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighrider75 View Post
I'm not being "passionate" about Shimano,it just appears to me to be a better bang for your buck.So far brifters and rebuildable parts are the only benefits I've heard.I don't care for brifters so that's out.Rebuildable parts,not enough. I'm thinking it boils down to bragging rights.
What's this? You ask for peoples' comments regarding the superiority of Campy components, they give you thoughtful answers, and then you decide that their reasons are inconsequential and determine that it boils down to bragging rights only? It seems that you already decided that and nothing that anyone was going to say was going to change your mind.

I like brifters, and I like the Campy brifters over Shimano. The shape blends into the bar better, fits my hand better and the pivot point for the brake levers is higher, giving me better leverage. I also like the fact that the cables route out the back, under the tape. Rebuildability IS a big issue, especially in the future when your now-obsolete Shimano shifter breaks and can't be fixed. I currently have that problem with my 7-speed Shimano 105 brifter; they're not made anymore and replacement shifters are expensive, if I can find them.

That said, there are definite disadvantages to Campy. The big one is the fact that Shimano has the majority of the market and their parts are going to be easier to find. Go into virtually any bike shop and try to find a Campy-equipped bike; most shops don't even have one. Therefore most bike shops will have a good selection of replacement Shimano, but would have to order Campy parts. The second one is that with the current exchange rate of the Dollar vs. the Euro, Campy parts are going up in price.
swc7916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-08, 02:44 PM   #25
jhota
blithering idiot
 
jhota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: beautiful coastal South Carolina
Bikes: 1991 Trek 930, 2005 Bianchi Eros, 2006 Nashbar "X," IRO Rob Roy
Posts: 1,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SunTour made cassette hubs and 8-speed cassettes, fwiw.

but no brifters.

my 18-year-old SunTour X-1 drivetrain on my Trek works just fine (albeit with a non-original cassette rear wheel running a SRAM 7-speed cassette and a 9-speed chain). indexed thumbshifting, whoopee.

RevChuck:

what are you doing with your brifters? i've got a set of '06 Centaur brifters on a bike i ride almost every day, and have done so for the past 18 months. still look and shift like the day they were first installed. are Record parts that much flimsier than the less-expensive (heavier) parts?
jhota is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 AM.