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Old 07-03-08, 11:48 AM   #26
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I purchased a Motobecane from Cycle Spectrum (against ALL better judgement) because it weighed something like 15.6lbs with pedals, and cost a mere $1100. I ride it for about 3 days, clocking maybe 150 miles, and notice my wheel was rubbing on the chain stay. Wheel was dished improperly, and I never noticed it at the store.

I bring it in, and the guys there tell me "We don't work on bikes, too much liability." I almost fall out laughing. I had the Trek shop down the street redish it for $15, then promptly sold it on ebay before anything REALLY broke and I was out of luck.
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Old 07-03-08, 12:14 PM   #27
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9 out of 10 LBSs are Not Good.

They don't fit, they don't have answers, they don't know anything outside of a very narrow product window.

Now the 1 out of 10 that is great...once you find that rare shop, frequent it often.

Funny thing is, most newbies are happiest with the bad LBSs. They don't want shops turning a "mere" bike into a complicated and nuanced purchase. They WANT the shop that will bag them up a product in under 5 minutes, with no thought required on their part.

So, I guess 9 out of 10 LBSs know their target market.
Wow, maybe that's the reason I took such offense. I'm one of those people who needs to know. I gotta know the cause of something so I know, not only how to fix it, but keep it from happening again. Maybe he thought I was a newbie.
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Old 07-03-08, 12:36 PM   #28
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I popped a spoke once when I was brand new to cycling and didn't know my seatpost from a hole in the ground. I felt a pop, saw that the wheel was wobbly, and took it to a shop. I told the guy my wheel was wobbling. He didn't even look at it: "Yeah?"

I said, "So...what can be done to fix it?"

He said, "I dunno, maybe a new wheel?"

*long pause*

.
Could I talk to somebody here who's not an *****hole?
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Old 07-03-08, 12:56 PM   #29
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Could I talk to somebody here who's not an *****hole?
I'm here for you.
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Old 07-03-08, 09:33 PM   #30
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On the other hand...

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9 out of 10 LBSs are Not Good.

They don't fit, they don't have answers, they don't know anything outside of a very narrow product window.

Now the 1 out of 10 that is great...once you find that rare shop, frequent it often.

Funny thing is, most newbies are happiest with the bad LBSs. They don't want shops turning a "mere" bike into a complicated and nuanced purchase. They WANT the shop that will bag them up a product in under 5 minutes, with no thought required on their part.

So, I guess 9 out of 10 LBSs know their target market.
I could also say that 9 out of 10 "bike review/info website" posters are ill informed, spew mis-information, and don't know anything outside of the very narrow product window than what they or thier best buddy ride.

Or that 9 out of 10 jet pilots are egotistical maniacs that think they are experts on EVERYTHING because they fly a plane.

Funny thing is that most of the "high end cyclist", club rider, team member customers that I come across come up with the most ridiculous claims/ideas/self fix disasters we come across. Those that have an open mind, and want real information and guideance, are the greatest people to deal with.

I will be the first to admit, there are some bad bike shops, staff members, and experiences. The same can be said about EVERY occupation in existance. Lawyers, plumbers,teachers, carpenters, IT techs, you name it. There are even pilots who suck! But I have enough inteligence to avoid painting large cross sections of people with such a broad brush.
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Old 07-04-08, 12:36 AM   #31
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All I got out of the original post is that a bicycle enthusiast asked the price paid for an obviously interesting bike and gave an opinion about the viability of a wheel after a thorough and free inspection...or am I missing something?
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Old 07-04-08, 05:23 AM   #32
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All I got out of the original post is that a bicycle enthusiast asked the price paid for an obviously interesting bike and gave an opinion about the viability of a wheel after a thorough and free inspection...or am I missing something?
Yes. You are missing that this thorough inspection should have been followed by a just as thorough an analysis which would have allowed me to make an informed decision on whether I needed a new wheel with of course some guidance from the professional. Then, maybe some suggestions on how the wheel was damaged, which would have to led to how it could be prevented and a few options in the way of new wheels, what I could expext to pay, and what my needs are. Was I wrong to expect this?

After all, I can't get ALL my info from the forums and Sheldon Brown. :wink:
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Old 07-04-08, 08:48 AM   #33
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Uhmm, relax cowboy. Number one, you're missing the point, but I'll reiterate: the dude lied to me and was evading my questions. I didn't like his attitude. And certainly didn't appreciate that he wasn't giving me any facts, but rather super vague doubletalk, which to me is nothing more than speculation and supposition since it wasn't based on any substantiated evidence.

Numero dos, perhaps you missed the "?" after my red flag. I don't think its appropriate to ask people how much they paid for things. But, maybe, juuuust maybe, there was a sliver of a chance that I made an incorrect deduction. That was the purpose of the question mark. You don't ask anyone how much they paid for their car or how much their rent is. It's tacky and irrelevant. And somehow, money encourages people to judge each other and I didn't want to be judged based on what he thought was the acceptable price of my cycle and what I paid. People draw conclusions based on this all.the.time.

And, since you're so quick to draw conclusions without having the facts, you should know this fact: I have no problem paying for any service I receive. I didn't stroll in the shop looking for a freebie. I asked him how much I owed him, he told me nothing. I didn't ask him to check my bike out. He asked me.

et trois: I am not most girls, but I'll forgive your ignorance, since we are not familiar with one another. Do you mind showing me where my girl power button is because I don't have a clue. So just as blatantly lame as it may have been for me to pull the gender card and make a blanket statement like that to express my sentiment that I was being screwed cuz I'm a girl, so too is your comment for believing that girls get things cuz they're girls. Talk about BS. You may not assume that I am anyone you have ever met. Because I am far from it. The interesting thing about being a minority is that you never forget you're a minority. So sometimes you may chalk things up to that because you really can't see any other justification for other people's unacceptable behavior.

And now "InTheTrenches", I am going to finish cooking my delicious penne pasta with cherry tomatoes and fresh basil.

Girl.... you rock.
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Old 07-04-08, 09:28 PM   #34
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Uhmm, relax cowboy. Number one, you're missing the point, but I'll reiterate: the dude lied to me and was evading my questions. I didn't like his attitude. And certainly didn't appreciate that he wasn't giving me any facts, but rather super vague doubletalk, which to me is nothing more than speculation and supposition since it wasn't based on any substantiated evidence.

Numero dos, perhaps you missed the "?" after my red flag. I don't think its appropriate to ask people how much they paid for things. But, maybe, juuuust maybe, there was a sliver of a chance that I made an incorrect deduction. That was the purpose of the question mark. You don't ask anyone how much they paid for their car or how much their rent is. It's tacky and irrelevant. And somehow, money encourages people to judge each other and I didn't want to be judged based on what he thought was the acceptable price of my cycle and what I paid. People draw conclusions based on this all.the.time.

And, since you're so quick to draw conclusions without having the facts, you should know this fact: I have no problem paying for any service I receive. I didn't stroll in the shop looking for a freebie. I asked him how much I owed him, he told me nothing. I didn't ask him to check my bike out. He asked me.

et trois: I am not most girls, but I'll forgive your ignorance, since we are not familiar with one another. Do you mind showing me where my girl power button is because I don't have a clue. So just as blatantly lame as it may have been for me to pull the gender card and make a blanket statement like that to express my sentiment that I was being screwed cuz I'm a girl, so too is your comment for believing that girls get things cuz they're girls. Talk about BS. You may not assume that I am anyone you have ever met. Because I am far from it. The interesting thing about being a minority is that you never forget you're a minority. So sometimes you may chalk things up to that because you really can't see any other justification for other people's unacceptable behavior.

And now "InTheTrenches", I am going to finish cooking my delicious penne pasta with cherry tomatoes and fresh basil.

You claim minority. Are you Black, Hispanic, Asian? Making an assumption you feel you are a minority because you are female. Women and men are about even so one is not a monority over the other. Maybe you consider yourself a minority anyway and it affects your interactions with others. Any woman that claims to not know where there girl power button is is full of it. There is no button, it is more akin to the ability of a night light to tell when it is dark, only replace dark with " guy that can help me"
Did you consider that maybe the guy was just not to great a mechanic. This would not be surprising. Based on the many threads at bike forums bike shops should make ZERO dollars and that makes it hard to hire qualified people. The few of us that are qualified truly do it for the love of the sport because people like you sure do move the meter over to finding employment where the customer does not expect you to be an incompetent crook right off the bat and then post about it all over the internet.
Please print this out and save it for review when you are about fifty, then you can repost here.

As for me I will be going to bed after busting my balls for ten hours for people, that based on this forum. could give a rats ass about whether or not we care about them or their experience. BikeForums, making me want to quit the biz more than any BS I have dealt with in shop in the last fifteen years.
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Old 07-05-08, 11:17 PM   #35
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as an occasional "jerky" lbs guy i can safely say that when a customer comes in with a "can you adjust my seatpost," "i need air in my tires (because i don't own a pump at home)," "i've got a weird valve stem i can't pump up," and they aren't a customer who has purchased their bicycle at our shop, i have a tendency to toy with them.

i'm not saying its right to mess with customers, but if someone automatically assumes that a tube is bad because it hasn't held the air the customer put it in 6 years ago, then i really don't feel bad charging them to replace a pair of perfectly good tubes.

i know at my shop at least we spend 10 hours a day 7 days a week polishing turds. fixing someone's "really old schwinn" is not fun or exciting and neither is fixing flats, installing racks or adjusting seatposts - especially when you're not getting paid, or being paid very little for the work. make a lbs guy's day and leave your stupid stuff at home and do it yourself or at least spend $5 on random crap to make up for our time.

ps. as a fellow fixed gear cyclist and lbs guy, i'm telling you now, you've go to expect to get some crap now and then. most of the guys i know working at these shops are not fixed gear friendly, they deal with you because they get paid to do it. most of them are lifelong cyclists, people who have devoted their lives to two-wheeled pleasure. most of them are probably road cyclists, perhaps mountain bikers, and most of them find the fixed gear fad stupid.

yes, some shops do the fixed gear thing, but most shops don't, or do it minimally (at least here in chicago). fixed gear just doesn't present enough of a profit to bother with. to the guys in the shop, you are an uneducated new-comer to a sport/lifestyle that they have sacrificed everything for and you're showing up out of college with your fancy art job messing up all the advocacy work they've done.

obviously this isn't the case for everyone. if you want to be respected you've got to give respect, because if there's anyone you should be friends with as a cyclists it's the guys you pay to make your wheels spin. be interested in how things work, ask to be shown to do simply repairs, peek over the swinging doors and ask to be let into the work room. before you know it you'll be getting rush repairs without being charged a premium, having special orders overnighted, and getting dibs on all sorts of fun parts that have been sitting in the dark confines of a head mechanic's cool parts bin.

yeah, there are a lot of sh itty bike shop guys, but there are also a lot of sh itty bike shop customers.
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Old 07-06-08, 12:35 AM   #36
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Yes. You are missing that this thorough inspection should have been followed by a just as thorough an analysis which would have allowed me to make an informed decision on whether I needed a new wheel with of course some guidance from the professional. Then, maybe some suggestions on how the wheel was damaged, which would have to led to how it could be prevented and a few options in the way of new wheels, what I could expext to pay, and what my needs are. Was I wrong to expect this?

After all, I can't get ALL my info from the forums and Sheldon Brown. :wink:
And you expect all that for free?

From a shop you didn't buy the bike from?
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Old 07-06-08, 01:31 AM   #37
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A few years ago I took my circa 1982 Fuji Royale II and converted it to a triple using some XT components I had acquired over time. I went to a LBS to buy a cassette rear wheel to replace my freewheel equipped wheel.

I told the LBS guy I wanted a 700c cassette wheel. He asked me what type of bike I had and he told me it would not work. I told him what I wanted and pointed to the wheel set on display (and was ready to purchase). He told me again it would not work and I walked out of the store and picked a set of wheels from another LBS.

The thing I have found is they suffer from the "specialty shop" syndrome. Bike shops, gun shops, hobby shops, etc employees seem to think all of their customers are ********. While a good majority may be some of us are not. The reason I have a full set of shop tools is so I never have to step foot into a LBS for maintenance. The lesson here is maybe the guy was not a crook. It could be he is incompetent.
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Old 07-06-08, 10:12 AM   #38
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I could also say that 9 out of 10 "bike review/info website" posters are ill informed, spew mis-information, and don't know anything outside of the very narrow product window than what they or thier best buddy ride.
And your point?

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Or that 9 out of 10 jet pilots are egotistical maniacs that think they are experts on EVERYTHING because they fly a plane.
And your point? If you flew an F-16 for a living, you'd be an ego-maniac too. As it stands I do, and I am, and deep down inside you know it's f-ing cool too.

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Funny thing is that most of the "high end cyclist", club rider, team member customers that I come across come up with the most ridiculous claims/ideas/self fix disasters we come across. Those that have an open mind, and want real information and guideance, are the greatest people to deal with.
Yeah...that's what I'm after. But like I believe I said, only 1 out of 10 shops actually provides these things that I seek. Eventually I find that shop somewhere, and when I do I'm a pretty good patron.

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I will be the first to admit, there are some bad bike shops, staff members, and experiences. The same can be said about EVERY occupation in existance. Lawyers, plumbers,teachers, carpenters, IT techs, you name it. There are even pilots who suck! But I have enough inteligence to avoid painting large cross sections of people with such a broad brush.
Sure there are. I just make certain they don't fly fighters. We have other jobs for them.
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Old 07-06-08, 10:38 AM   #39
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And you expect all that for free?

From a shop you didn't buy the bike from?
All What? A conversation about wheelsets? Jeezus, get off the free bandwagon! Did you even read the whole thread?

*Dead Horse*

Again. I NEVER asked him to see what was wrong with my bike. Why would he suggest "taking a look at it" as he said, in the first place? Is that a common practice to ask the customer if they want them to give their bike a once over and then charge them for it? I don't think that's very fair, but I woulda paid for it. Even still,
Again. I had CC in hand ready for him to tell me his hourly labor charge, even it was ONLY for the seat adjustment.
Again. He says no charge. As a matter of fact, I was pacing the store the whole time worrying, "How much is he going to charge me for this? Can't be more than about $25, right? I hadn't really asked for this, but at least I'll know the condition the cycle when he's through and I can go from there."

What I expected is very simple: customer service. In general, people don't go into a bikes shop or most other specialty shops ready to buy. They almost certainly have questions. So, guess what? They shop around. And when consumers shop around, there's the risk that they may ask the professional questions, and not buy anything!! Fancy that!! The nerve of someone looking for accurate advice.

I visited another LBS a few days ago because I wanted to switch my cog from 14T to 17T. And we all know that deciding on gear ratios is not a 30 second decision. At least not for me. But after being so well informed by the mechanic, I decided to upgrade to a Sugino Messenger crank, and maybe go with a different set of pedals. Oh, and toe clips. And there's a chance I might need a new BB. Now, a simple $20 part that I coulda put on myself has turned into a $200+ job. And guess what? I left without buying a single thing! And I was probably in there 20 minutes. He gave me all that information for **FREE**!! But, I tell you something, I'd go back there in a heartbeat to get it done. On, Friday as a matter of fact. The mechanic knew that if he invested his time, even though there was a large possibility that I may leave without making a purchase, I would return to that shop because of the service I received.

That's called good business.

And one last thing, and I hope we can close the book on this cuz apparently, if you don't get it by now, you never will:

I don't know very many people who have bike shop bikes. I don't own one. I have a ss/fixed Univega. I don't know that I will ever buy a bike shop bike. So please fill in this blank for me: I am not allowed to take my cycle to an LBS for servicing if I didn't buy it from there because . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

If I'm ready to pay, where the bike was purchased should be of little consequence. To think that I have to hunt down the original bike shop (which probably most assuredly out of business) where it was purchased in the 80s so they can service it is completely asinine. Now, that's an expectation that is as idealistic as it impractical.
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Old 07-06-08, 11:51 AM   #40
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1) There are crooks in every business.
2) If it sounds fishy, it probably is.
3) Get a second (third, fourth) opinion.
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Old 07-06-08, 02:11 PM   #41
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All What? A conversation about wheelsets? Jeezus, get off the free bandwagon! Did you even read the whole thread?

*Dead Horse*

<snip>
Now, that's an expectation that is as idealistic as it impractical.
I will have to defer to your obviously vast experience in both bicycle retailing and service regarding what constitutes "good business".

After all, I'm just another jerky, stupid LBS guy that you've already made your mind up about.

Have a nice day.
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Old 07-06-08, 05:32 PM   #42
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I stopped into one of the six LBS in my immediate area to have my seat adjusted. The bike shop guy compliments me on the bike and asks me how much it costs.

Wait one. You took your bike into an LBS to have the seat adjusted?

Do you call your local cable provider when you need to change the channel?
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Old 07-06-08, 05:47 PM   #43
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He tried to take you for a sucker,he thought that you were one of those one a year cyclists.If you want the work done right do it yourself and put those con men out of business as far as repairs are concerned.
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Old 07-06-08, 06:03 PM   #44
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Let's see the bike an some tattoo's
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Old 07-06-08, 06:27 PM   #45
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He tried to take you for a sucker,he thought that you were one of those one a year cyclists.If you want the work done right do it yourself and put those con men out of business as far as repairs are concerned.
Hey Mark. You're pretty confident for somebody who hasn't seen the wheel. I've done a lot of wheel work and I honestly can't give an opinion on this incident. I could see it easily going either way.
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Old 07-06-08, 08:46 PM   #46
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Does anyone know where to find Top Gun Bike Shop for him?

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And your point? If you flew an F-16 for a living, you'd be an ego-maniac too. As it stands I do, and I am, and deep down inside you know it's f-ing cool too.
OK, Iceman, I thought that you would understand the obvious reference to how ridiculous making huge, rash exagerations make you sound. THAT was my point. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you better, Sparky. BTW, cool was not the word I was thinking about....but f-ing was part of it!

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Yeah...that's what I'm after. But like I believe I said, only 1 out of 10 shops actually provides these things that I seek. Eventually I find that shop somewhere, and when I do I'm a pretty good patron.
Lets be serious here, Maverick, have you ever even BEEN to 10 shops? Know what? I'm willing to spot you 10 shops. Maybe you are one of those whack jobs that NO shop could ever make happy. But the other 90% of the normal American public will do just fine.

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Sure there are. I just make certain they don't fly fighters. We have other jobs for them.
Yeah, like commander in chief? You and G-Dub....perfect together.

And to think that I was under the assumption that the service taught you something about respect for others. I guess it just teaches you to have contempt and disdain for others that you do not deem "good enough". Way to go, Goose.....
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Old 07-06-08, 09:04 PM   #47
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Rofl. The OP is a wicked customer.

Doesn't even bother telling us what the hubs are, spokes, and wether or not it's handbuilt, and then proceeds to tell us that his mechanics assessment of his wheel with "irreperable" damage pisses him off majorly.

If the rim is damaged and the hub is shyte, there's no point relacing it on a new rim and incurring the labour cost. Having said that, the mechanic should not have been evasive about the damage. Either he didn't know what the F is going on or he doesn't know how to tell you that it's not worth repairing.
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Old 07-06-08, 09:25 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
If the rim is damaged and the hub is shyte, there's no point relacing it on a new rim and incurring the labour cost. Having said that, the mechanic should not have been evasive about the damage. Either he didn't know what the F is going on or he doesn't know how to tell you that it's not worth repairing.
Maybe the OP just didn't understand his explaination.

Suppose, for example that the rim was warped. Some folks might pull the rim back into line by using a lot of differential spoke tension. A real bike mechanic will try to explain why that doesn't really fix the wheel. There are plenty of yahoos running around who will say such a machanic is trying to pull a fast one, while he's really simply telling the unappealing truth.

Without seeing the wheel I can't say which is right.

Last edited by Retro Grouch; 07-07-08 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-06-08, 09:46 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cfrone1 View Post
OK, Iceman, I thought that you would understand the obvious reference to how ridiculous making huge, rash exagerations make you sound. THAT was my point. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you better, Sparky. BTW, cool was not the word I was thinking about....but f-ing was part of it!



Lets be serious here, Maverick, have you ever even BEEN to 10 shops? Know what? I'm willing to spot you 10 shops. Maybe you are one of those whack jobs that NO shop could ever make happy. But the other 90% of the normal American public will do just fine.



Yeah, like commander in chief? You and G-Dub....perfect together.

And to think that I was under the assumption that the service taught you something about respect for others. I guess it just teaches you to have contempt and disdain for others that you do not deem "good enough". Way to go, Goose.....
Oh. You don't even know what you're talking about.

That's too bad. Had I known I wouldn't have bothered.

And I mean boy howdy...you REALLY don't know what you're talking about. So much so that I don't want to waste an hour of my life rectifying the situation with someone I don't know.

You can question "facts on the ground" as much as you want. Don't question my own character though. You have no right, or basis.

Obviously you don't know what smilies are either...I guess the one I put in wasn't enough. That makes you either no fun, or just willfully dumb, or someone who takes himself and this message board WAY too seriously. Nothing good can come of any of those options.

And don't even dream of lumping me together with "G-Dub". Again, an idiotic statement about my character which you know nothing about.

Actually, to make it more simple, welcome to "Ignore".

There, that's better. I can't believe I even wasted that time.
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Last edited by Banzai; 07-06-08 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 07-06-08, 10:56 PM   #50
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Oh. You don't even know what you're talking about.

That's too bad. Had I known I wouldn't have bothered.
I will beg to differ. I think I know plenty about the bike industry. And I wish you hadn't bothered.

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And I mean boy howdy...you REALLY don't know what you're talking about. So much so that I don't want to waste an hour of my life rectifying the situation with someone I don't know.
I know it frosts your wing blades to think somone may differ with your "expert observations" and know more about a subject than you. But it happens, deal with it without getting your flight jumper in a bunch.

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You can question "facts on the ground" as much as you want. Don't question my own character though. You have no right, or basis.
So let me get this straight....YOU can question the knowledge and professionalism of 90% of an entire industry....but I have no right or basis to question you on your statements? WOW! I think I had plenty of right, and the basis was your own words and statements.

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Obviously you don't know what smilies are either...I guess the one I put in wasn't enough. That makes you either no fun, or just willfully dumb, or someone who takes himself and this message board WAY too seriously. Nothing good can come of any of those options.
Yup, I do not pay much attention to little "smiley" icons to dismiss negative remarks about others. So you weren't really serious about the thinking you were cool statement? Excellent! We have found common ground and something to agree on!

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And don't even dream of lumping me together with "G-Dub". Again, an idiotic statement about my character which you know nothing about.
So you can make statements about 90% of an industries members like they are no good, have no answers, and know nothing, and you feel bad that I questioned YOUR character!?!? I think I know everything I need to know about your character, Lumpy.

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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
Actually, to make it more simple, welcome to "Ignore".

There, that's better. I can't believe I even wasted that time.
Simple is good. I will stand by my simple belief that you made a ridiculous statement.
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