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Old 01-15-04, 09:06 AM   #51
shokhead
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Originally Posted by Don Cook
Why on earth would you take karate lessons? Why not wrestling, boxing? This ain't a contest to see who's strongest! When confronted with a situation that might warrant the use of deadly force, why would anyone be so stupid as to try to turn it into some machismo sport? And offer their safety or someone else's as the prize to the victor?
Well because the weakest midget could kick the crap out of the biggest boxer or wrestler.Karate doesnt need you to be strong,thats what the art is all about.
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Old 01-15-04, 09:23 AM   #52
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Old 01-15-04, 09:32 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Don Cook
Why on earth would you take karate lessons? Why not wrestling, boxing? This ain't a contest to see who's strongest! When confronted with a situation that might warrant the use of deadly force, why would anyone be so stupid as to try to turn it into some machismo sport? And offer their safety or someone else's as the prize to the victor?
My good man Cook, I see that you have some aggression that needs to be let out on something or someone , so please help yourself to a counseling class and relief us of your yada-yada.......
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Old 01-15-04, 09:45 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Don Cook
Now here's a predictable comment from someone out of touch with responsible methods of self defense planning, "....to even think I could WANT to shoot anyone". Who in the f...ing world said they wanted to shoot someone? That has nothing to do with the discussion so keep your canuck presumptions to yourself.

Guys, guys, guys, take it easy. Looks as if I started this whole thing. I meant no offence. I was just asking if this post was more of a...joke. But I can see that it is not.

Ok, so you feel that your personal safety is threatened and you want to protect yourself, should something happen. Ok, fair enough I understand. I too, do not want to be a victim and would like to ward off danger.

But considering your 'quick on the trigger' anger response, perhaps you should carry 2 guns.

One for the rootin' tootin' shootin' and the other to plant on the innocent victim of your quick to anger temperment.

THAT'S the whole reason for gun control - people cannot control themselves, something happens, someone is killed, then it is too late.

I realize that not ALL gun owners are the 'Yosamity Sam' types and are quite responsible. BUT, unfortunately, it is those bad eggs that cause the problems for others. So control is placed on everybody - equally.

But I don't want to get into gun control debate. Please no.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I cannot imagine living in such a place that I would have to consider carrying a gun. I feel great empathy for anyone who has to live in such fear.

So, like you said Don Cook, I will stay here in Canada (yeah we have our problems) and not visit the States and PLEASE you, and your types, stay there in the good 'ol US of A with your constitutional right to bear arms and live in fear. (How many are killed each year on average...11,000?)

But if you ever decide to break away from such a life and move North, or even for a vacation or a break from the fear, give me a private email message to let me know. We'll meet and I'll take you for a bike ride in my neck of the woods - sans firearm of course.

Digger

P.s. Best to come up during the summer, otherwise you'll need studded tires. Or we could go snowshoeing....?
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Old 01-15-04, 09:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by SamDaBikinMan
Sure you are, thats what they all say

Me, I'm just armed and dangerous!
Ha ha Sam. Forgot we were two nations divided by a common language.

meant jock as in vernacular for Scot, but come to think of it, I'm a jock jock
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Old 01-15-04, 10:07 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by digger
Guys, guys, guys, take it easy. Looks as if I started this whole thing. I meant no offence. I was just asking if this post was more of a...joke. But I can see that it is not.

Ok, so you feel that your personal safety is threatened and you want to protect yourself, should something happen. Ok, fair enough I understand. I too, do not want to be a victim and would like to ward off danger.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I cannot imagine living in such a place that I would have to consider carrying a gun. I feel great empathy for anyone who has to live in such fear.

So, like you said Don Cook, I will stay here in Canada (yeah we have our problems) and not visit the States and PLEASE you, and your types, stay there in the good 'ol US of A with your constitutional right to bear arms and live in fear. (How many are killed each year on average...11,000?)

,
Notice that the people on the forum promoting guns are from the U.S. southeast. I'm not sure what the correlation is there. Rest assured MOST of us feel pretty safe in this here U.S. of A. The minority give the majority a bad rep; it's actually safe to walk on the streets and in the woods here. If any of you from abroad came to visit, most likely, you wouldn't get shot at by some gun toting yahoo on a bicycle , or by anyone else.
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Old 01-15-04, 10:27 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by chewa
Ha ha Sam. Forgot we were two nations divided by a common language.
Yep, and as the British soldiers I trained with in Europe said, The English created a perfectly useful language and the Americans butchered it to he!!.

I cannot disagree. And my southern dialect takes it one more step away from proper grammar.
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Old 01-15-04, 10:29 AM   #58
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I don't carry while riding, however have considered it many times when riding unfamiliar trails. I've come across numerous gators, bob cats, and snakes that might not kill me, but definately cause me significant injury. I would not hesitate to use my weapon against an animal (two or four legged) that I feel is a threat to myself or my family.

I do carry, and sleep with one while camping. You never know what wild animal may want to attack.

Also when traveling, I keep it loaded and next to me.

I do this not because I live in fear, but because I can not control another person intent on doing me harm or an enraged animal.

L8R
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Old 01-15-04, 10:32 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Mtn Mike
Notice that the people on the forum promoting guns are from the U.S. southeast. I'm not sure what the correlation is there. Rest assured MOST of us feel pretty safe in this here U.S. of A. The minority give the majority a bad rep; it's actually safe to walk on the streets and in the woods here. If any of you from abroad came to visit, most likely, you wouldn't get shot at by some gun toting yahoo on a bicycle , or by anyone else.
There are people down here who still secretly make moonshine and grow certain plants out in the isolated areas. You do not want to happen upon one of these sites at all, especially unarmed. I know it sound paranoid but I have in fact spoken with some folks who still make the good stuff and trust me, they don't want you tripping over their hide outs.

I enjoy getting out where others fear to tread. Some of the best riding and best scenery. But I'll be carrying my .44 or .45 when I'm out there.

Keep in mind that these areas are NOT developed trails where the yuppies go to play.
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Old 01-15-04, 10:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by a2psyklnut
I don't carry while riding, however have considered it many times when riding unfamiliar trails. I've come across numerous gators, bob cats, and snakes that might not kill me, but definately cause me significant injury. I would not hesitate to use my weapon against an animal (two or four legged) that I feel is a threat to myself or my family.

I do carry, and sleep with one while camping. You never know what wild animal may want to attack.

Also when traveling, I keep it loaded and next to me.

I do this not because I live in fear, but because I can not control another person intent on doing me harm or an enraged animal.

L8R
Good points.

But you are forever labelled a raving gun slingin loonatic by most folks. Welcome to the looney club, wanna go to the range and shoot groups? I got a new wheel gun to play with and it needs to be zero'd in.
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Old 01-15-04, 10:46 AM   #61
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[snip]
I do this not because I live in fear, but because I can not control another person intent on doing me harm ....[snip].

L8R
i.e you are fearful of someone having intent to do you harm. Is that not right?
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Old 01-15-04, 11:04 AM   #62
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The last time I visited Canada.

Guys, guys, guys, take it easy.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I cannot imagine living in such a place that I would have to consider carrying a gun. I feel great empathy for anyone who has to live in such fear.

So, like you said Don Cook, I will stay here in Canada (yeah we have our problems) and not visit the States and PLEASE you, and your types, stay there in the good 'ol US of A with your constitutional right to bear arms and live in fear. (How many are killed each year on average...11,000?)


As stated, half my family is Canadian. I have spent many a summer month about Muskoka, Ont. Just an impression.The only places in Canada, I recall seeing bullet proof windows in business' was Windsor, and Fort Erie, Ontario..
Interesting to engage those store employees about how they feel about such protections and why they exist.! These business' were within one mile of the US border. I was curious and asked questions at these business, of their employees..... Canadian immigration can't catch all visitors violating Canadian laws.
Free Speech..Some Americans have the right to advocate arms, yes.....That is your right. It is my right to say the number of arms about makes me feel less secure and not more.
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Old 01-15-04, 11:06 AM   #63
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i.e you are fearful of someone having intent to do you harm. Is that not right?
I'd like to reply here...

I rely upon myself for my personal safety. Not out of fear of others but out of the fact that the police agencies pretty much show up in time to clean up the blood and identify the dead bodies. I'd rather be armed and in a position to defend myself when in questionable areas than be one of the occupants of a body bag. There is obviously No promise that i won't get a bullet, but I don't want a threatening person to be the only one with a gun. Hard to combat a person with a gun by throwing rocks.

But it all boils down to an individuals choice. If you choose to go unarmed I have no problem, if you choose to go armed I have no problem, if you are unarmed and I come upon you being threatened by a gun weilding assailant I'll shoot them for you...
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Old 01-15-04, 11:18 AM   #64
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i.e you are fearful of someone having intent to do you harm. Is that not right?
It's not fear. it's being prepared.

One doesn't ride in fear of flats but they carry a spare tube and patches.

Its a difference in culture and like many cultural aspects you don't understand it unless you are a part of that culture.
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Old 01-15-04, 11:19 AM   #65
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I sometimes carry my high end pneumatic rifle. I carry it not for security reasons.

Sometimes I cycle to my summer house for sharp shooting. Sometimes I use the paper targets, sometimes just small plastic bottles from vitamins and the like.

Usually we play the game with my son - who reaches first 10 points. One hit of the plastic bottle is 1 point.

I carry the rifle in the producer's box. I stuck it into the pannier vertically, and fix it with the bungy cord to the frame.

Using the pneumatic rifle is more environment friendly than shooting with the chemical powder ammunition. Besides it is not that loud.
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Old 01-15-04, 11:41 AM   #66
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I'd like to reply here...

if you are unarmed and I come upon you being threatened by a gun weilding assailant I'll shoot them for you...



Okay, okay, okay. Sure you want to be better able to defend yourself, believe me I get it. I guess it is kinda the same as bringing a first aid kit in case of a fall or cut, as you don't want to bleed to death. Similarly, a firearm so as not to get mugged/robbed/raped.

So when your planning a bike ride this would be your list (?):
helmet
gloves
pump
patches
.45 Colt magnum with 1000 rounds of ammo
water bottles
food
bike shoes
etc

Oh I crack me up sometimes

So, since you have a healthy respect for wild animals (2 and 4 footed) and that they are unpredictable (hence the gun) I should also carry one for the same reason. I mean, after all, we have bears, cougars, lynx, rabbits, etc and the such here that could attack me. Plus we have our fair share of violence here in Canada. People get rapped, mugged, stabbed, etc. Yeah, it could happen to me.

But I still don't feel as if I need one here. I guess it is worse in the States (southern States)? A gun is needed for outings?

So if I lived there and planned a picnick for me and my family I would make this list:
fried chicken
coleslaw
tuna salad
Remington auto loading shotgun with laser sighting
1000 rounds of buckshot
beer (oh THAT's a nice combo with firearms)
soda
blanket
frisbee

I guess I gots to get me a gun. The more we have out there, why the safer I would feel, with everyone walking around with a gun. Just think, no one would get robbed ever again if we all had guns!

Crime surely would drop and it would be a safer community if we all had guns!

Why that's brilliant!

Digger

P.s. Yes rabbits are dangerous and I fear them. Surely if I described to you an animal that could run really fast, change colour in summer and winter and had big gnawing teeth, wouldn't you be afraid? Which gun is best to protect myself from dem wascerly wabbits? Hey, that could be another thread for this forum!
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Old 01-15-04, 11:48 AM   #67
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It's not fear. it's being prepared.

One doesn't ride in fear of flats but they carry a spare tube and patches.

Its a difference in culture and like many cultural aspects you don't understand it unless you are a part of that culture.
Gas mask to,just to be prepared.
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Old 01-15-04, 11:53 AM   #68
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I donít live in the southern states, but it is rural. All the 'old timers' around here routinely carry a handgun into the woods (and have for years). The first shell loaded in the gun is a snake shot load. (bullets designed to spray little shot pellets) to kill poisonous snakes. I'm told the other shells are for the "2 legged snakes".

Personally, Iíve carried on hikes, but haven't carried on the bike (except for mace).
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Old 01-15-04, 11:54 AM   #69
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Your bike or car is no more worthy than the life of another human even if he is threatening you for some money. I regret gun control laws in US. To speak practically, hardly any one protects themselves with guns compared to those who use them for mis-adventures.
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Old 01-15-04, 11:57 AM   #70
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...P.s. Yes rabbits are dangerous and I fear them. Surely if I described to you an animal that could run really fast, change colour in summer and winter and had big gnawing teeth, wouldn't you be afraid?...


You are wise to fear killer rabbits. Even our Secret Service can't stop them, this came to light when one attacked Jimmy Carter, President of the United States!!!

Jimmy Carter Attacked by Killer Rabbit (April 20, 1979)
http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1021.html
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Old 01-15-04, 12:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by a2psyklnut
I don't carry while riding, however have considered it many times when riding unfamiliar trails. I've come across numerous gators, bob cats, and snakes that might not kill me, but definately cause me significant injury. I would not hesitate to use my weapon against an animal (two or four legged) that I feel is a threat to myself or my family.

I do carry, and sleep with one while camping. You never know what wild animal may want to attack.

Also when traveling, I keep it loaded and next to me.

I do this not because I live in fear, but because I can not control another person intent on doing me harm or an enraged animal.

L8R
Well put and I agree 100%. I also ALWAYS have a loaded weapon next to the bed at home. I don't want to shot anyone ever...however I do want to be able to do so quickly if needed. No tombstone looks good with the words "if only he had a gun around"
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Old 01-15-04, 12:08 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by SamDaBikinMan
<snip>
There is obviously No promise that i won't get a bullet, but I don't want a threatening person to be the only one with a gun. Hard to combat a person with a gun by throwing rocks.
<snip>
It's an interesting scenario here.

In the US, if attacked it is highly probably that the assailant will have a gun. With a right to bear arms comes a likelihood that dodgy characters will have a gun or guns. In Australia and the UK (and I'm sure many other countries, but these are the ones I have experience with) it is highly probable that the assailant will not have a gun. Guns are difficult to procure, even on the black market, so they're more likely to be unarmed or maybe lightly armed (knife, bat etc). Even with a knife or bat, there's a pretty darn low probability that they try to kill you.

When you're on a bike, it's easy to outrun someone who is on foot. It's also much easier to defend yourself using karate/disabling moves. It's much harder to outrun a bullet. The US gun culture is here and has probably gone too far to ever be reversible.

That being said, in my 2 years of living in the US, I've never felt a need to carry a weapon of any kind. I've never felt unsafe while riding, either due to wild humans or wild animals. I know of many areas where I wouldn't want to ride because I wouldn't feel safe. My solution is to stay clear of those areas - I'm not going to get a gun just so I can ride there.

Protection from cougars, bears etc is a slightly different issue. I can understand carrying some sort of deterrent for those situations - but again, I'll just stay clear of 'danger' areas thankyouverymuch.
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Old 01-15-04, 12:26 PM   #73
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Anybody,anytime at just about any age can buy a gun in the us,over or under the counter.We are so lucky.
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Old 01-15-04, 12:39 PM   #74
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It's an interesting scenario here.



The US gun culture is here and has probably gone too far to ever be reversible.


Sigggghhhhhh, sadly, yes, you're right. It is in the culture and who am I to try and convince someone to change their culture.

I do apologize.

Besides we are getting away from the original post. Where do you carry your gun when you ride?

If I was to carry a gun I would suggest, for quick acess of course:
- in a holster behind my back, but that could interfer with getting at your jersey pockets

- on the hip, as long as it didn't jostle around too much

- ankle holster maybe, but you'd have to stop pedaling to grab it, or be fast enough to grab it on the up stoke of your foot

- perhaps just behind the neck so you just reach over your shoulder to get it to shoot someone as you pedal past

- I don't recommend handlebar bag, if you need it ya know it'll end up on the bottom with melted chocolate all over it from your power bar

- you COULD mount it in front of your handlebars and get at it quickly there
but in early summer you'll get bugs smashing into it as you ride. a bug-gut covered gun can be icky.

- I also don't recommend seat bag, again hard to get at when you have to shoot someone fast. I guess you can tell im to hold off the attack until you get your gun out

Well, I guess that's all the options I have. Anyone else have any ideas on where to carry your peace maker when riding?

Digger

Last edited by digger; 01-15-04 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 01-15-04, 01:11 PM   #75
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I take back my stance on weapons..We do not allow weapons in our home..However, on my bike's handlebars a grenade launcher might be in order.. Attacking mad, frothing motorists..
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