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  1. #51
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    You have no case. The law does not care whether you claim you were riding, driving, operating, guiding or anything else, the law only cares if you were following the applicable law. There is simply no distinction between "I was riding my bike and stopped for a traffic signal" and "I was driving my bike and stopped for a traffic signal".
    + 1


    And ... although bicycles are vehicles of the road, the terminology used to describe them is similar to the terminology used with horses.

    You ride a horse. You sit on a saddle on a horse.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gldrgidr View Post
    Actually 'riding a bicycle' is the stilted english phrasing. The terminology originated at a time when there were no cars and most people rode a horse. It's the same for the term bicycle saddle. It's old english that has continued to the present day. When you ride a horse, you don't actually steer the horse. All you do is signal to the horse which direction you want it to go. This might be why people used a different word to express controlling a motor vehicle.
    Uh - Don't you "ride" a horse astride and "drive" a horse and buggy? Which do you think is more car like and which is more bike like?

  3. #53
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    You have no case. The law does not care whether you claim you were riding, driving, operating, guiding or anything else, the law only cares if you were following the applicable law. There is simply no distinction between "I was riding my bike and stopped for a traffic signal" and "I was driving my bike and stopped for a traffic signal".
    Oh but there is. When the OP states that he was "driving my bike" in traffic court there will be a collective "Huh, WTF did you say" by everybody there who speaks English as their primary language. Maybe the driver will also have to give a circular logic class to the representatives of the law on how the law really means Real Cyclists drive a bike.

  4. #54
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gldrgidr View Post
    Actually 'riding a bicycle' is the stilted english phrasing. The terminology originated at a time when there were no cars and most people rode a horse. It's the same for the term bicycle saddle.
    What is that shiny object that we fasten our saddle to called; in new or olde English?

  5. #55
    Senior Member alhedges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
    From Commuter Run's reply:

    "A person in control of a vehicle on a street or highway
    is a driver [316.003(1)]. As a driver, a cyclist
    must follow the traffic rules common to all drivers.
    As the driver of a bicycle, he must also obey rules
    adopted specially for bicycles."

    There it is in print, "As a driver, a cyclist must follow the traffic rules common to all drivers".

    Here is a link to the FL statute: http://tinyurl.com/58deao

    That is Florida's wording, not mine. And the same word "Driver" applies to operators of bicycles in New York.

    I rest my case.
    You lose.

    The link is not to to the actual FL laws, but to a description of the laws. Here is what the actual statutes say.

    316.2065 bicycle regulations.--



    (b) Except as provided in paragraph (a), a bicycle rider must carry any passenger who is a child under 4 years of age, or who weighs 40 pounds or less, in a seat or carrier that is designed to carry a child of that age or size and that secures and protects the child from the moving parts of the bicycle.

    (c) A bicycle rider may not allow a passenger to remain in a child seat or carrier on a bicycle when the rider is not in immediate control of the bicycle.

    (d) A bicycle rider or passenger who is under 16 years of age must wear a bicycle helmet that is properly fitted and is fastened securely upon the passenger's head by a strap, and that meets the standards of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI Z 90.4 bicycle Helmet Standards), the standards of the Snell Memorial Foundation (1984 Standard for Protective Headgear for Use in Bicycling), or any other nationally recognized standards for bicycle helmets adopted by the department. As used in this subsection, the term "passenger" includes a child who is riding in a trailer or semitrailer attached to a bicycle.

    (e) Law enforcement officers and school crossing guards may issue a bicycle safety brochure and a verbal warning to a bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection. A bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection may be issued a citation by a law enforcement officer and assessed a fine for a pedestrian violation, as provided in s. 318.18. The court shall dismiss the charge against a bicycle rider or passenger for a first violation of paragraph (d) upon proof of purchase of a bicycle helmet that complies with this subsection.

    (4) No person riding upon any bicycle, coaster, roller skates, sled, or toy vehicle may attach the same or himself or herself to any vehicle upon a roadway. This subsection does not prohibit attaching a bicycle trailer or bicycle semitrailer to a bicycle if that trailer or semitrailer is commercially available and has been designed for such attachment.
    The second point is that a courtroom is not a place where you have to use magical words to describe normal activities. It just doesn't matter whether you say you were riding your bike, driving your bike, or operating your bike - they all mean the same thing, although driving is not really idiomatic, while "operating" sounds like police testimony.

    The same is true of "highway" - it is true that most statutes in most states use "highway" as the catch all term to include roads, streets, lanes, etc., there are no consequences one way or the other if you say you were driving on the "road." Similarly, you can't get out of a ticket by pointing out that the officer testified that you were on the "road"when you drove through the red light, even if the statute uses the term highway. Since, by the statute, all roads are highways.
    Last edited by alhedges; 07-20-08 at 11:58 PM. Reason: to add link to FL statute

  6. #56
    Senior Member gldrgidr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    What is that shiny object that we fasten our saddle to called; in new or olde English?
    A seat post?

  7. #57
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Maybe hotbike does drive his bicycles. Maybe he puts them inside his vehicle, or on a rack on the back, and drives them around the countryside.

  8. #58
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gldrgidr View Post
    A seat post?
    I was thinking "rails".

  9. #59
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gldrgidr View Post
    A seat post?
    Correct, though I suppose a self appointed bicycling semanticist like hotbike would insist on calling it a saddle post, so he can be Right and everybody else in the English speaking world is wrong.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterRun View Post
    Sure, here ya' go.

    <<<All that legal stuff>>>
    I think that's just a way of assigning to operators of bicycles on the road, what we know as cyclists, the membership in a legally-defined class known as "drivers." Because cyclists are drivers, cyclists are subject to all the same rights, priveldges, and responsibilities as drivers of any other type of vehicle. It also instructs law enforcement officers, what we know as cops, to apply the law to cyclists in that way. Presumably, it also implies that drivers operating vehicles other than cycles (a broader class than bicycles), are required to regard drivers operating bicycles as drivers. In other words, as equals.

    Presumably there are some special provisions that are exceptions to the general position.

    I don't see anything here about terminology, as terminology. Plus, the idea that judges are not capable of seeing when a person has innocently used a misnomer, is just silly.

    I guess I'm being just as trivial as the OP. Oh well.

    Road Fan
    Last edited by Road Fan; 07-21-08 at 09:06 PM.

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