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Old 08-17-08, 01:24 AM   #1
tstartrekdude
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Phelps better than Lance?

Don't know how many of you where watching the Men's 4 x 100m Medley swim tonight, but something kind of got my goat. after the relay was over and team usa was being interviewed by the reporter guy,
Brendan Hansen(slowest of the four) had this to say(from memory) "this is the greatest sports achievement ever, Better than the Pressure putt in the PGA, better than the tour de france, the best ever"

Hmmm.....so the 8 swims of about a minute are the biggest things ever in sports...even bigger than 7 tours of about 20+ days long, 2 or 3 thousand miles and over 2 mountain ranges each time.......

When lance was asked if he was the best athlete ever he said that he has never done any of the other sports, and each is great in its own right.....so what do you guys think?
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Old 08-17-08, 04:25 AM   #2
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"he has never done any of the other sports"

I think Lance has been doing alot of swimming lately:

Armstrong tops list of city's largest water users
http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...svc=7&cxcat=52

Or maybe it's his new hydration system.

The Chinese sort of set the thing up by building a "faster" pool.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/sp...html?ref=world

I also read that swimmers are gaming the system by swimming underwater longer. I am not sure why they can't do the whole race underwater. Forcing them to come up for air just slows things down.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/beijing_...016786,00.html
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Old 08-17-08, 06:32 AM   #3
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It doesn't make any sense to compare the two. It's apples and oranges.

I also notice that athletes typically think that their sport is the toughest one there is.

I also don't like how they're calling Phelps the greatest olympic athlete ever. Again, it doesn't make sense to compare across sports. As a swimmer, it's possible to compete in multiple events. Suppose there was a boxer for example who was just as dominant in boxing as Phelps is in swimming. The boxer would have only one opportunity to win a gold medal. Only winning one gold medal doesn't make that achievement somehow less than winning eight gold medals in another sport.

I don't want to take anything away from Phelps's accomplishment though. It is incredible to win eight gold medals.

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Old 08-17-08, 06:40 AM   #4
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Whenever I see these spectacular results, I always wonder. Drugs? Steroids?. Over time we have seen so many remarkable achivements disgraced. I truely hope Phelps win is legit and free of scandle. But as Marion Jones knows, the future can be a dark cloud waiting. And yes, this suspicion extends to Lance. I really hope I am wrong.
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Old 08-17-08, 07:05 AM   #5
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I really hope I am wrong.
It's not illegal if you don't get caught. 100% pure "Talent", as long as your science is a step ahead of the drug testing agencies science.

The only natural athlete's left in the world are the bearded freds.
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Old 08-17-08, 07:58 AM   #6
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ha, natural athlete, I love that term...What is "natural" anyways? Is taking protein supplements "natural' ?? The protein was not "naturally" created. You may say that because it is already created by the body then it is ok, it is natural. Steroids are created by the human body are they natural?

Swimming wise- It is a fast pool however this is nothing new. We have been trying to create fast pools for a while. It is pretty widely known in the US swimming community which pools are fast. Underwater swimming, there is a limit to the distance that can be spent underwater. This was created after misty hyman made it pretty famous to stay underwater a long long time. This technique doesnt work for everyone too, only some. I personally do not see this as cheating or tainting the sport. Sports evolve, equipment evolves, technique evolves, race tactics evolve.

Is phelps the greatest athlete ever? Can't say, I agree with the others that you cannot compare athletes across sport. Is he the greatest swimmer ever? I believe he is the greatest all around swimmer ever. Still not my favorite swimmer though :-P
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Old 08-17-08, 08:22 AM   #7
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Best Sports Achievement Ever?

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Originally Posted by tstartrekdude View Post
Brendan Hansen(slowest of the four) had this to say(from memory) "this is the greatest sports achievement ever, Better than the Pressure putt in the PGA, better than the tour de france, the best ever"
If the only measurement of greatest sports achievement, is measured only by the number of gold medals, then Michael Phelps is the winner. However, if you consider that a win in the TdF is equal to a gold medal, then each one took 3 weeks and 2,100+ miles to win. Lance's total efforts total 21 weeks (almost 5 months of riding), approximately 130+ days, averaging 6 hours a day, 780 hours of effort, and more than 15,000 miles for 7 victories. Does Michael Phelps total even 30 minutes of effort in Bejing?

I think it's ridiculous to even compare the two.
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Old 08-17-08, 08:34 AM   #8
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I also don't like how they're calling Phelps the greatest olympic athlete ever.
What I REALLY object to is some of the questions asked of other members of his relay teams immediately after the event.

Here's an athlete who has just won an Olympic gold medal. That's an accomplishment of a lifetime for anybody. So this should be his 15 minutes of lifetime fame, right? Insted he's getting questions about Michael Phelps. That's just so wrong! How insensitive can those idiots be?
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Old 08-17-08, 08:35 AM   #9
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Does Michael Phelps total even 30 minutes of effort in Bejing?
hahahahaha. I swear I just almost fell over laughing. You really think that you can compare these two sports? 30 minutes of effort? Do you have ANY clue of how much olympic swimmers train?
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Old 08-17-08, 08:49 AM   #10
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I seldom listen to sport interviews. Too many same-old tired re-run cliches...
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Old 08-17-08, 09:07 AM   #11
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hahahahaha. I swear I just almost fell over laughing. You really think that you can compare these two sports? 30 minutes of effort? Do you have ANY clue of how much olympic swimmers train?
If you can line up against the folks who are best in the world at anything and come away with a "W", that's pretty good.
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Old 08-17-08, 09:16 AM   #12
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Well, put Phelps on a bike, and we can see how good of a cyclist he is. No, I bet his physique is very, very well-suited for swimming. I am not being negative about Phelps, but long torsos and arms, relatively short legs, and huge feet do not favor cycling, or for that matter, tack and field sports, either. He is a gifted swimmer.

Plus, let's keep on mind that in the TdF, each day's stage is considered a race unto itself. The yellow jersey is worn by the one who has the shortest elapsed time, overall, affected somewhat by time bonuses earned. The King of the Mountains polka-dot jersey is worn by the rider who is the best climber on designated climbs, and the green points jersey goes to the rider who sprints the quickest to certain designated points along path of the stages. Sprinters rarely wear the yellow jersey at the end of the Tour, as their bodies are not the best for climbing. Climbers are usually not well-suited for contesting sprints. Then, skill in time trials is essential to one's overall classification. Perhaps most important of all, as the TdF is now raced, is that the team wins, not the lone individual. Some teams members exist only to serve the leader, and others may be capable of doing great things themselves, but put their ambitions on hold to ride for the leader, unless given the go-ahead to shine on their own for a short while. Without team support, a bicycle stage racer can only excel at the individual time trials.

Lance is not my favorite person in the world, but he helped VERY MUCH to make road cycling socially acceptable around here. Moreover, he was a decent triathlon racer at one time, and that requires a bit of swimming. If one's swimming leg is slow, it is a very uphill battle to get that time back in the bike and running legs.

Edited to add: I just reviewed my post, and it seemed to have a somewhat negative tone. That was not my intention! I am very glad for Phelps and the U.S. team!
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Old 08-17-08, 09:43 AM   #13
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My 2 cents-

Brendan Hansen did stick his foot in his mouth a bit. That being said, I find it hard to fault him for saying it. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute- he was just directly involved with something that was historic, and amazing, and contributed to Phelps getting his 8th. On top of it, he too, just won a gold medal- something that he has probably dreamed about since being a child. 5 minutes after he gets out of the pool, there are mics and cameras put in his face, and his excitement bubbled over. Hell, I think if I was in his shoes, I'd be saying "Phelps is the greatest athlete ever!"

I agree with everyone who said its comparing apples to oranges (there is no way Lance will be winning 8 Olympic gold medals in swimming, and no way Phelps will be winning even a single tour). That being said, what Phelps did this year was nothing short of spectacular, and he, along with the rest of the team very well deserve to be excited, proud, and bask in the spotlight for a bit.
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Old 08-17-08, 09:56 AM   #14
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hahahahaha. I swear I just almost fell over laughing. You really think that you can compare these two sports? 30 minutes of effort? Do you have ANY clue of how much olympic swimmers train?
I realize they BOTH train beyond anything I could imagine. I was comparing the actual time they put into their individual events. I know that training for any professional sport whether cycling, swimming, boxing, or any other sport is life consuming.

I still say comparing the two is ridiculous, they are both champions and either could kick my butt.
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Old 08-17-08, 10:03 AM   #15
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He's the greatest Olympic athlete, thats for sure.
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Old 08-17-08, 10:09 AM   #16
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Phelps has to go out swim his race and he's gonna win . Armstrong had to survive 7 years in a row. Survive weather in the mountains, crashes, whatever. His feet is so amazing to me. If he doped or not it still goes down as the most amazing sports feet of all time.

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Old 08-17-08, 10:43 AM   #17
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Its like comparing deep fried scorpions to Kentucky fried chicken wings.
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Old 08-17-08, 10:46 AM   #18
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He's the greatest Olympic athlete, thats for sure.
I think calling any one athlete "the greatest" is a mistake when there are so many different sports involved. You just can't compare them.

I also don't understand why humans seem to have a tendency to rank people, events, feats, in some kind of linear order. Not everything fits in a linear order so neatly. The fact that there are numbers involved (eight gold medals) makes it seductive though.
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Old 08-17-08, 11:40 AM   #19
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I think calling any one athlete "the greatest" is a mistake when there are so many different sports involved. You just can't compare them.

I also don't understand why humans seem to have a tendency to rank people, events, feats, in some kind of linear order. Not everything fits in a linear order so neatly. The fact that there are numbers involved (eight gold medals) makes it seductive though.
my 2 cents:
Some sports only have one gold medal. In swimming (as in track and gymnastics for example), athletes can win medals in closely related disciplines. Swimmers can often be trained in freestyle and backstroke for example. Gymnasts can be trained in floor exercise and the vault. Runners can be trained in both the 200 and 400 meter distance. Taking this into account, it is "easier" for Michael to win more gold medals than say.....a tennis player. Does this make it any "easier" though? No one else has done this in swimming, in track, in gymnastics............

What you have to remember though is two things: 1.) swimmers are much more specialized now then they were in the days of Mark Spitz. Michael not only has to go against "butterfliers", but swimmers who ONLY concentrate on the 100 meter or the 200 meter distance. The range of events that he does is amazing. No one else in swimming even comes close to his range. 2.) The races are shorter than the Tour. There is not a lot of room for error. If Phelps has a bad day, he loses 1-2 medals on that day and maybe the chance at qualifying for another on the next day. If Lance has a bad day, he can make it up on the next. Michaels consistency is amazing.

That being said, Lance certainly has overcome so much and was so awesome for so many years. Michael has also be awesome for so many years. They have both changed the face of their sports. THIS is the most important part about both of them IMO.

There is something to be said about lining up with the best in the world at ANYTHING and saying "lets go" and then coming out on top. over and over and over again. In this department, Lance and Michael are the same. Both amazing.
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Old 08-17-08, 12:36 PM   #20
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OK , he is the most decorated. Feel better now?
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Old 08-17-08, 02:03 PM   #21
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If that was towards me, I never really felt bad in the first place....

But that is one way to say it. Debates like these are just impossible to end. If you want to choose a side then that means that you just enjoy arguing or beating your head against a wall or both.

I just prefer to acknowledge that both athletes (along with a list of others) are amazing and only come around once a generation.
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Old 08-17-08, 03:01 PM   #22
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If that was towards me, I never really felt bad in the first place....

But that is one way to say it. Debates like these are just impossible to end. If you want to choose a side then that means that you just enjoy arguing or beating your head against a wall or both.

I just prefer to acknowledge that both athletes (along with a list of others) are amazing and only come around once a generation.

No it wasn't. It couldn't be. I didn't read your 10,000 word reply. I bet you had something very important to say . I didn't read it so I wouldn't know.
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Old 08-17-08, 05:37 PM   #23
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Both are great athletes in their own right. But so is my grandson when he placed first in his 3rd grade relay race.
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Old 08-17-08, 05:44 PM   #24
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His feet is so amazing to me.


Evidently you're not alone
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Old 08-17-08, 06:12 PM   #25
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Evidently you're not alone
See, thats even funny at my expense. Well done.
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