Made some adjustments...
10-05-08, 11:13 AM
#26
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Not too difficult to get my leg over the seat. I had the seat down because I was ignorant and did not know how it should be. I also haven't ridden a bike since I was a kid, so I guess I subconsciously wanted the "safe" feeling of being able to put my feet down "just in case."
10-05-08, 11:47 AM
#27
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From the picture of the seat/handlebar - it looks like your house is jacked-up! LOL. Is that an FX WDS frame? I don't get it..
Anywho - one thing that hasn't been brought up: Have you had/ridden an aluminum-framed bike before this? If not, that could explain your control-issues. Aluminum frames act differently than the old-style steel framed bikes we all (most of us) grew up with. They turn sharper and are less forgiving by nature. Aluminum is like a rigid panel. Very little give - spring - to them. And it seems bike-shops never point this out to their customers. So I often have to explain to people, lying in the road sometimes, that this is the case. I recommend that the new owner of the aluminum-framed bike, like the FX 7.2, take it out to a vacant parking-lot and learn to ride it. Start slow. Once you get the hang of how these bikes behave, you can turn the scary quickness of it into an asset. But you need to practice.
- new owner of an FX 7.5
Anywho - one thing that hasn't been brought up: Have you had/ridden an aluminum-framed bike before this? If not, that could explain your control-issues. Aluminum frames act differently than the old-style steel framed bikes we all (most of us) grew up with. They turn sharper and are less forgiving by nature. Aluminum is like a rigid panel. Very little give - spring - to them. And it seems bike-shops never point this out to their customers. So I often have to explain to people, lying in the road sometimes, that this is the case. I recommend that the new owner of the aluminum-framed bike, like the FX 7.2, take it out to a vacant parking-lot and learn to ride it. Start slow. Once you get the hang of how these bikes behave, you can turn the scary quickness of it into an asset. But you need to practice.
- new owner of an FX 7.5
10-05-08, 12:02 PM
#28
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10-05-08, 12:25 PM
#29
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
Not too difficult to get my leg over the seat. I had the seat down because I was ignorant and did not know how it should be. I also haven't ridden a bike since I was a kid, so I guess I subconsciously wanted the "safe" feeling of being able to put my feet down "just in case."
While seated, I can hardly reach the ground with either foot on any of my bikes. What matters is how it fits while pedaling, not while standing still (never mind that I can't do a trackstand yet..). To get on, I still tip the bike towards me, put a pedal forward, then stand up, just like in the vid on this page by the late Sheldon Brown:
https://sheldonbrown.com/starting.html
If the bike really tips over far enough for falling to be a concern, I can still reach the ground with my foot before I fall over myself.
10-05-08, 03:19 PM
#30
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Lol, that is my basement/workshop. Not a WDS frame... https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/fx/72fx/ That is how the frame is...For what it's worth, this bike is advertised for its upright riding position.....
<edit> Oops! You have Tektro brakes. They probably suck as well - so my suggestion stands. Oops - here come the Forum-Trolls. Gotta run!
10-05-08, 03:40 PM
#31
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Actually, if the seat is lower than it should be, the frame would be too big. A bike that's too small would end up with the saddle sky-high, much higher than the bars. Of course, that's also assuming that its height is set for ideal pedal stroke, and not to be able to reach the ground with both feet while seated (which I can't do on any of my bikes).
That seat angle is pretty wild, too.
I mentioned it elsewhere -- the problem with compact geometry frames is that the sloping top tube leaves a lot of room for misadjustment. If this bike had a traditionally horizontal top tube, he would not be able to put the seat as low as it is now.
What you say about feeling like your arms are still locked out also tells me that either the frame is too big or you're not actually rotating forward at the hips -- and that would be difficult to do with your seat tilted so far back. IF the frame is too big, simply dropping the handlebars won't help at all with reach, either -- as the stem slides down the steerer tube, it slides away from you, too.
The FIRST thing I would do is revisit the seat height. A quick way to get in the ballpark would be to pedal with your heels on the pedals -- if your knees are completely straight at the bottom of the stroke, and your hips aren't rocking in an effort to reach the pedals, then your knees will have the proper slight bend when you pedal with the balls of your feet like you're supposed to do.
IF that's how you have your seat now, then I'll say that the bike is much too big. Other bikes are designed to have the bars higher than the seat (you'll see them marketed as "comfort" bikes like Trek's Pure and Navigator series), but not the FX.
That seat angle is pretty wild, too.
I mentioned it elsewhere -- the problem with compact geometry frames is that the sloping top tube leaves a lot of room for misadjustment. If this bike had a traditionally horizontal top tube, he would not be able to put the seat as low as it is now.
What you say about feeling like your arms are still locked out also tells me that either the frame is too big or you're not actually rotating forward at the hips -- and that would be difficult to do with your seat tilted so far back. IF the frame is too big, simply dropping the handlebars won't help at all with reach, either -- as the stem slides down the steerer tube, it slides away from you, too.
The FIRST thing I would do is revisit the seat height. A quick way to get in the ballpark would be to pedal with your heels on the pedals -- if your knees are completely straight at the bottom of the stroke, and your hips aren't rocking in an effort to reach the pedals, then your knees will have the proper slight bend when you pedal with the balls of your feet like you're supposed to do.
IF that's how you have your seat now, then I'll say that the bike is much too big. Other bikes are designed to have the bars higher than the seat (you'll see them marketed as "comfort" bikes like Trek's Pure and Navigator series), but not the FX.
10-05-08, 04:15 PM
#32
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However, due to the way you actually ride a bike and go around corners this is rarely a problem as you very rarely turn your wheel sharply unless at low speeds and after a while you just learn how to do it without hitting the wheel at low speeds.
10-05-08, 08:56 PM
#33
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
It's more of a problem with short people on bikes with 700c wheels (like me). Having short stumpy legs means I tend to go for quite a small frame and my cross bike has quite a short wheelbase as it is, coupled with my giant feet I have plenty of opportunities for overlap.
However, due to the way you actually ride a bike and go around corners this is rarely a problem as you very rarely turn your wheel sharply unless at low speeds and after a while you just learn how to do it without hitting the wheel at low speeds.
However, due to the way you actually ride a bike and go around corners this is rarely a problem as you very rarely turn your wheel sharply unless at low speeds and after a while you just learn how to do it without hitting the wheel at low speeds.
10-06-08, 04:13 AM
#34
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Okay - I get it now! LOL. I have the Trek FX 7.5, so our bikes are more similar than not. As another note for you to consider with your bike, you likely have Avid Single Digit 3 brakes. You may well want to get rid of them soon. They don't stay adjusted. They are weak and wriggle around. And the adjusting screws are about worthless. On a positive note, the Avid Single Digit 7's draw rave reviews - literally, look 'em up on Google - and they aren't that expensive. Easy to mount as well. A bike is only as good as it's brakes - is one of my mottos.
<edit> Oops! You have Tektro brakes. They probably suck as well - so my suggestion stands. Oops - here come the Forum-Trolls. Gotta run!
<edit> Oops! You have Tektro brakes. They probably suck as well - so my suggestion stands. Oops - here come the Forum-Trolls. Gotta run!
10-06-08, 06:53 AM
#35
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Don't be so sure about the brakes being bad. Adjusting v-brakes requires a bit of experience and you probably don't have much of it yet so you assume they are bad. I have the 7.2fx and the brakes are good. I work at a volunteer bike shop and have dealt with a lot of v-brake adjustments. The 7.2fx brakes are solid.
For example did you know that you can adjust the spring tension of each arm individually so as to centre the brakes. Did you know that if your wheel is not centred in the middle of the frame, you are gonna have issues with v-brakes because the arms will need different spring tensions to stay in place.
The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.
For example did you know that you can adjust the spring tension of each arm individually so as to centre the brakes. Did you know that if your wheel is not centred in the middle of the frame, you are gonna have issues with v-brakes because the arms will need different spring tensions to stay in place.
The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.
10-06-08, 08:14 AM
#36
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
https://bicycletutor.com/adjust-v-brakes/
and here:
https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=21
Specifically where they talk about "Brake Arm Centering" (on the Park Tool site, it's the pic that says, "Tighten screw to pull arm away"). You can also go straight to Step 12 Centering on the bicycle tutor video.
On the picture of your bike at Trek's site, this screw is a tiny black one on the outside of the brake pivot. It adjusts the tension of the long wire that pokes upward along the lever; it's actually a spring, just not a coil-shaped spring.
10-06-08, 04:48 PM
#37
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Don't be so sure about the brakes being bad. Adjusting v-brakes requires a bit of experience and you probably don't have much of it yet so you assume they are bad. I have the 7.2fx and the brakes are good. I work at a volunteer bike shop and have dealt with a lot of v-brake adjustments. The 7.2fx brakes are solid.
For example did you know that you can adjust the spring tension of each arm individually so as to centre the brakes. Did you know that if your wheel is not centred in the middle of the frame, you are gonna have issues with v-brakes because the arms will need different spring tensions to stay in place.
The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.
For example did you know that you can adjust the spring tension of each arm individually so as to centre the brakes. Did you know that if your wheel is not centred in the middle of the frame, you are gonna have issues with v-brakes because the arms will need different spring tensions to stay in place.
The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.
10-06-08, 05:06 PM
#38
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Small frames usually have a slacker head angle to reduce toe-overlap, the larger frames steepen the head angle to stop the wheelbase becoming too long. There is more to it than this, but it's the main difference.
10-07-08, 06:09 PM
#39
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Ok, everyone I rode 5miles today. The seat height seems great. I was able to get a nice range of motion with each pedal. I am not so sure the handlebars are correct...My hands started hurting in the beginning but then they felt better later on. I am able to flex my elbows a little bit which is a good feeling. I hit 21.5MPH for a short stretch.
10-07-08, 10:07 PM
#40
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
Ok, everyone I rode 5miles today. The seat height seems great. I was able to get a nice range of motion with each pedal. I am not so sure the handlebars are correct...My hands started hurting in the beginning but then they felt better later on. I am able to flex my elbows a little bit which is a good feeling. I hit 21.5MPH for a short stretch.
Your bars may be too low (sorry..
), or they may be too far away. You can try a different size of frame, or a shorter stem -- which I've actually done with some of my bikes.
10-09-08, 12:11 AM
#41
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I raised the bars by 1 washer and moved the seat forward by about 1 inch. It feels pretty good and I can flex my elbows very easily. I also hit 22.8 mph with this setup, so I must be doing something right. I guess it is a trial and error kind of thing. Thank you everyone for helping me get this right.
10-09-08, 12:51 AM
#42
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
I never said anything about moving the seat to get closer to the bars (but that brings me to my next point anyway) --
You should adjust the seat only for best pedal stroke, not to change reach. A rule of thumb commonly used on most bikes (excluding time trial bikes with their more-vertical seat tubes, and "pedal-forward" bikes with laid-back seat tubes) is KOPS, or Knee Over Pedal Spindle. The idea is to have your kneecap directly over your forward pedal when both pedals are level at 3 and 9 o'clock when viewed from the side.
However, you might have actually improved your fore-aft saddle position by scooting it forward just a bit. And, KOPS is merely a starting point, and although it'll get a rider close, it isn't always regarded as the end-all fit method:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
https://www.serotta.com/forum/archive...hp?t-2529.html
At the very least, I'm glad that you raised your seat -- that's the first step.
You should adjust the seat only for best pedal stroke, not to change reach. A rule of thumb commonly used on most bikes (excluding time trial bikes with their more-vertical seat tubes, and "pedal-forward" bikes with laid-back seat tubes) is KOPS, or Knee Over Pedal Spindle. The idea is to have your kneecap directly over your forward pedal when both pedals are level at 3 and 9 o'clock when viewed from the side.
However, you might have actually improved your fore-aft saddle position by scooting it forward just a bit. And, KOPS is merely a starting point, and although it'll get a rider close, it isn't always regarded as the end-all fit method:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
https://www.serotta.com/forum/archive...hp?t-2529.html
At the very least, I'm glad that you raised your seat -- that's the first step.
10-09-08, 03:01 PM
#43
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Rode 9 miles today. What have I learned? The seat needs to come up another 1/2-1 inch and I also raised the handlebars back to their "stock" height. Feels good now, but my hands still hurt after a while....maybe its the Bontrager ergonomic grips and not my positioning?
10-09-08, 04:21 PM
#44
I'm just sayin'...
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I was not surprised to find that you ended up with the handle bars back at their 'stock' position. That is not to say that this is the optimum place for you but with you adjusting so many different things at one time, it's hard to say what worked the best or what is yet needed.
Sort out the seat height/leg extension first. And it's a good idea regarding the fore/aft position to note where your knee is in relationship to the crank (in front/even/or behind).
Most likely, it's going to take some time to find what is most comfortable but remember that the posture you are in on a 'fitness hybrid' is NOT nearly as comfortable as on a true comfort bike.
There is ALWAYS a trade off - more comfort vs more efficiency, etc.... That is why you do not see Lance Armstrong riding a Townie 21 in the TDF.
Last edited by Raven87; 10-09-08 at 04:24 PM.
10-09-08, 07:49 PM
#45
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
And, as you start getting closer to your ideal saddle height, make smaller adjustments. Only move it that half inch, not a full inch, at least not yet. I can really feel the difference when I move mine just a centimeter too high.
Your hands may be hurting because of positioning, or it may be your gloves (if you have some; even then, it's personal preference), or it may be the grips.
I'm trying to get a good look at your grips (I think I see reflective end caps, too; that's kinda cool)... do they flare back with a sort of oblong shape? Try twisting them forward, bringing the flared part a bit upwards as shown in the diagrams here:
https://www.ergon-bike.com/en/grips/g...i8lmk6f63d8is0
I have a pair of those Ergon grips and really like them, but you can probably still get yours to work well with some tweaking.
Your hands may be hurting because of positioning, or it may be your gloves (if you have some; even then, it's personal preference), or it may be the grips.
I'm trying to get a good look at your grips (I think I see reflective end caps, too; that's kinda cool)... do they flare back with a sort of oblong shape? Try twisting them forward, bringing the flared part a bit upwards as shown in the diagrams here:
https://www.ergon-bike.com/en/grips/g...i8lmk6f63d8is0
I have a pair of those Ergon grips and really like them, but you can probably still get yours to work well with some tweaking.
10-14-08, 05:51 PM
#46
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Ok, I need help again. My seat feels right, and I spun the handle bars around so that the "bowed-in" part faces me, which brought the handles closer to me. Is this not advisable, will it result in decreased handling?
10-14-08, 06:38 PM
#49
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
Hmm, ok...
There are handlebars that sweep back even more than that, so as far as the sweep goes, you probably won't have any problems at all.
What I might get concerned about is whether you've introduced some droop to the ends. That can put your wrists at an uncomfortable angle. I wouldn't ride like that for very long, if at all.
Right now, I think you have two options: get a shorter stem, or get a smaller bike.
There are handlebars that sweep back even more than that, so as far as the sweep goes, you probably won't have any problems at all.
What I might get concerned about is whether you've introduced some droop to the ends. That can put your wrists at an uncomfortable angle. I wouldn't ride like that for very long, if at all.
Right now, I think you have two options: get a shorter stem, or get a smaller bike.
10-14-08, 06:43 PM
#50
I'm just sayin'...
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Hmm, ok...
There are handlebars that sweep back even more than that, so as far as the sweep goes, you probably won't have any problems at all.
What I might get concerned about is whether you've introduced some droop to the ends. That can put your wrists at an uncomfortable angle. I wouldn't ride like that for very long, if at all.
Right now, I think you have two options: get a shorter stem, or get a smaller bike.
There are handlebars that sweep back even more than that, so as far as the sweep goes, you probably won't have any problems at all.
What I might get concerned about is whether you've introduced some droop to the ends. That can put your wrists at an uncomfortable angle. I wouldn't ride like that for very long, if at all.
Right now, I think you have two options: get a shorter stem, or get a smaller bike.
I do think this all goes back to the fact that the bike is too big. Parts can be bought or interchanged but still, it does not seem like this is a good, comfortable fit for the rider.
If trading it in for the next smaller size is an option, I would rip off the dealer's arm to get the better sized bike.
Just my opinion mind you but I do not think you could put a price on years of discomfort or dissatisfaction, especially when it can easily be avoided.
Frustration will always sour a 'great deal'...