Red Lights & Stop Signs
#1
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Red Lights & Stop Signs
I don't really understand something, so maybe someone can clear this up for me. I see/read about cyclists who move up between lanes of cars waiting in traffic or at red lights so they can be at the head of the line (or they just blow through the light, but that's a different can of worms).
I consider myself a vehicle when I am on the road. Which means I am subject to the rules of the road. When I am approaching a red light or stop sign, I take the lane and I get in line behind the car in front of me to wait for the red to change. Just like the cars around me. I sit there, sometimes pretty far back, and I move with traffic and wait my turn to cross the intersection, like I would in a car. Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to get through the intersection, like it would had I been in my car. Since I *am* a vehicle, I do as other vehicles do.
It seems to me that I never read about anyone else on these boards doing this, and yet everyone insists they are vehicles and want to be treated like vehicles, but waiting in line like a car doesnt apply? If it is case of cyclists being impatient and not wanting to sit in traffic, how is this attitude any different than a motorist that doesn't want to be stuck behind a slow cyclist? It only slows your commute by a few minutes, and it is ok for someone to take the lane and slow down motorists, but not for cars to slow down a cyclist?
Or, is there some safety issue I am not aware of that makes sitting in line to go through a red light dangerous to the cyclist?
p.s. If you sit in line like I do, sorry, I never read about it on these boards but I certainly read about/see videos of/see real life incidences of cyclists riding up the lane past cars to get to the front of the line at a stop.
I consider myself a vehicle when I am on the road. Which means I am subject to the rules of the road. When I am approaching a red light or stop sign, I take the lane and I get in line behind the car in front of me to wait for the red to change. Just like the cars around me. I sit there, sometimes pretty far back, and I move with traffic and wait my turn to cross the intersection, like I would in a car. Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to get through the intersection, like it would had I been in my car. Since I *am* a vehicle, I do as other vehicles do.
It seems to me that I never read about anyone else on these boards doing this, and yet everyone insists they are vehicles and want to be treated like vehicles, but waiting in line like a car doesnt apply? If it is case of cyclists being impatient and not wanting to sit in traffic, how is this attitude any different than a motorist that doesn't want to be stuck behind a slow cyclist? It only slows your commute by a few minutes, and it is ok for someone to take the lane and slow down motorists, but not for cars to slow down a cyclist?
Or, is there some safety issue I am not aware of that makes sitting in line to go through a red light dangerous to the cyclist?
p.s. If you sit in line like I do, sorry, I never read about it on these boards but I certainly read about/see videos of/see real life incidences of cyclists riding up the lane past cars to get to the front of the line at a stop.
Last edited by Heifzilla; 06-02-09 at 08:46 PM.
#3
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 53
Bikes: Kona Dew Plus 2008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
From a safety stand point, I'd rather be at the front and get through the intersection fast and back into a bike lane. I figure if I sat back my visibility as a bicycle is lower and cars are going to want to pass at unsafe distance in order to get themselves through the intersection. No one has given me grief for doing this yet, and given that most cars move fairly slow off the line, I tend to get out of everyone's way much sooner.
#5
Galveston County Texas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,238
Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked 1,249 Times
in
626 Posts
I don't wait in the lines.
I split the lane up to the front.
It is legal in Texas and California.
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
#6
In Real Life
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152
Bikes: Lots
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 596 Times
in
329 Posts
It seems to me that I never read about anyone else on these boards doing this.
p.s. If you sit in line like I do, sorry, I never read about it on these boards but I certainly read about/see videos of/see real life incidences of cyclists riding up the lane past cars to get to the front of the line at a stop.
p.s. If you sit in line like I do, sorry, I never read about it on these boards but I certainly read about/see videos of/see real life incidences of cyclists riding up the lane past cars to get to the front of the line at a stop.
__________________
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
#7
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
However, it just seems to me like it is yet another thing that will get motorists pissed off at cyclists
Last edited by Heifzilla; 06-02-09 at 09:21 PM. Reason: Lane splitting is not legal in Illinois.
#8
just pokin' along
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: the desert
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I'll wait on the white line between the rightmost through lane and the right turn lane. It gives me a clear view, keeps me from inhaling as much crap, and it feels safer. And it's legal. I don't lean against vehicles at the light, and I don't slow traffic by doing this. What makes you assume bicyclists are doing this just for the purpose of being first in line?
When there's no right turn lane, and the rightmost through lane is very narrow, I'll get in line. Whenever you're standing between bumpers just a few feet fore and aft, it's natural to be a bit concerned. There are drivers that don't respect your right to be in the lane and will take the opportunity to show you how they feel as ride your wheel through the intersection. It's the option I take when there are no other options.
When there's no right turn lane, and the rightmost through lane is very narrow, I'll get in line. Whenever you're standing between bumpers just a few feet fore and aft, it's natural to be a bit concerned. There are drivers that don't respect your right to be in the lane and will take the opportunity to show you how they feel as ride your wheel through the intersection. It's the option I take when there are no other options.
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Its never bothered me. I'm not too concerned about bicycles or motorcycles splitting lanes and moving up to the front of stopped traffic. That way I know where they are. But splitting lanes through slow moving traffic is different - cars can change lanes pretty quickly and cut you off. Just my two cents.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,863
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 905 Post(s)
Liked 2,081 Times
in
1,092 Posts
What's normal and expected in one location, will be unexpected, dangerous, and draw the ire of motorists in another location. Even within a city, different regions have different expectations.
If you wait at an intersection in Pune for the traffic to clear, you will not get through until 11:00 at night. You have to pick someone who looks weak, and go. If you do that in Peoria where there's 1/100th the traffic, you're dead.
So the question is, in your location, are motorists expecting bikes to be moving between lines of cars to the front, or aren't they?
If you wait at an intersection in Pune for the traffic to clear, you will not get through until 11:00 at night. You have to pick someone who looks weak, and go. If you do that in Peoria where there's 1/100th the traffic, you're dead.
So the question is, in your location, are motorists expecting bikes to be moving between lines of cars to the front, or aren't they?
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
First, you should always do what you is safe for you since no one else will for your safety.
Second, most motorists really don't care where you are as long as you're not in their way. You don't earn any brownie points for yourself or other cyclists by waiting in line with cars.
And finally, although bicycles are legal vehicles, they have almost no similarity with cars. Weight, speed, and visibility are drastically different. When you're riding a bicycle, remember that it's a bicycle, not a car. Be mindful of its limitations and take advantage of its strengths.
Second, most motorists really don't care where you are as long as you're not in their way. You don't earn any brownie points for yourself or other cyclists by waiting in line with cars.
And finally, although bicycles are legal vehicles, they have almost no similarity with cars. Weight, speed, and visibility are drastically different. When you're riding a bicycle, remember that it's a bicycle, not a car. Be mindful of its limitations and take advantage of its strengths.
#12
Galveston County Texas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,238
Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked 1,249 Times
in
626 Posts
First, you should always do what you is safe for you since no one else will for your safety.
Second, most motorists really don't care where you are as long as you're not in their way. You don't earn any brownie points for yourself or other cyclists by waiting in line with cars.
And finally, although bicycles are legal vehicles, they have almost no similarity with cars. Weight, speed, and visibility are drastically different. When you're riding a bicycle, remember that it's a bicycle, not a car. Be mindful of its limitations and take advantage of its strengths.
Second, most motorists really don't care where you are as long as you're not in their way. You don't earn any brownie points for yourself or other cyclists by waiting in line with cars.
And finally, although bicycles are legal vehicles, they have almost no similarity with cars. Weight, speed, and visibility are drastically different. When you're riding a bicycle, remember that it's a bicycle, not a car. Be mindful of its limitations and take advantage of its strengths.
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
#13
Banned.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Southern california
Posts: 3,498
Bikes: Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
As a general rule, at a traffic light I stop but will move up to the front of the line as far to the right as I can be without being in the way of anyone making a right turn. If I have to make a left turn I take the lane and move as far forward as safe or follow the other vehicles through the turn. Some of my friends modify that by moving to the right front fender of a left turning vehicle.
If there is no turning lane I will take the lane if the car in front of me is making a right and if it is not making a right I will pull to the crosswalk on the lead car’s right. But I will not split traffic at a light and have to try and out race two cars through an intersection. Now that is in California where right turns on a red light are legal and turn lanes are common place. I also live in a bike friendly small town. However I ride the same way in Orange County so I believe it is pretty common practice.
If there is no turning lane I will take the lane if the car in front of me is making a right and if it is not making a right I will pull to the crosswalk on the lead car’s right. But I will not split traffic at a light and have to try and out race two cars through an intersection. Now that is in California where right turns on a red light are legal and turn lanes are common place. I also live in a bike friendly small town. However I ride the same way in Orange County so I believe it is pretty common practice.
#14
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Damn. And here I thought I was going to get the Super Cyclist of the Day Award, with included cookies and milk.
#15
Shop Wench
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
* To the right of the rightmost straight through lane, or to the right of the rightmost left turn lane, or in rare cases to the right of the rightmost right turn lane.
If you wait in line behind other cars, a large gap may open up ahead of you as the cars ahead of you pull away. Drivers behind you may end up passing you. A yellow light runner may come flying up behind you without having seen you. (The car that passed you will have blocked the light runner's view.) Also - you might get caught by a yellow light. Most yellow light cycles aren't long enough for a bike to get through an intersection. This means you might still be in the intersection when the cross traffic gets a green light.
BTW, I'm in California and here it is legal to lane split between stopped traffic. It is very common for motorcycles to lane split on the freeway during commute jams. Even though they are only supposed to do that when the traffic is stopped fully, you can expect motorcycles to filter between cars whenever traffic slows to say 30.
#16
Shop Wench
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Don't think of it as lane splitting. Think of it as following your lane as far as you can. In other words, your bike lane, which extends all the way to the intersection. And even if no bike lane is marked, pretend you have a 2 inch wide bike lane - because you really do: If traffic were moving and you were keeping to the right, you'd be creating an impromptu narrow bike lane.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,589
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
A bike is more similar to a motorcycle than it is to a car.
If you want to have a model for acting like a vehicle, look at the motorcycle, not the car.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 2,324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
why should I wait in line? The traffic is caused by cars, not by bicycles. If it were a line of bicycles I would wait. It is just one more of the advantages to riding a bicycle.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,131
Bikes: Priority 600, Priority Continuum, Devinci Dexter
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times
in
37 Posts
I do what you do. I guess I don't talk about it much because I live in a small town where the situation doesn't come up very often, and when it does it is usually at one particularly busy intersection. But when cars get backed up at that intersection, I get in line and I wait my turn. I do that because to do otherwise at that intersection would be dangerous. I'd be risking a right or left hook. I'd be confusing the drivers. And I'd be making them angry too. So I am polite and I follow the rules and I wait in line.
Last edited by JonathanGennick; 06-03-09 at 09:01 AM.
#20
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Lane splitting is illegal here. I wait in line...I gotta stop anyway and I can move through the intersection when the light changes as fast as any car. In over 40 years I have never been rear-ended while waiting in line at or moving through an intersection.
That said, if the line is long enough that I would have to wait for multiple cycles of the light...I have no problem using the advantages of being on a bicycle to shorten my own wait time, if the alternative is available, safe and fairly legal.
Don't let the impatience and feeling of entitlement of some cyclists impact how you ride - you do what works best for your safety and comfort.
That said, if the line is long enough that I would have to wait for multiple cycles of the light...I have no problem using the advantages of being on a bicycle to shorten my own wait time, if the alternative is available, safe and fairly legal.
Don't let the impatience and feeling of entitlement of some cyclists impact how you ride - you do what works best for your safety and comfort.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
#22
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Don't think of it as lane splitting. Think of it as following your lane as far as you can. In other words, your bike lane, which extends all the way to the intersection. And even if no bike lane is marked, pretend you have a 2 inch wide bike lane - because you really do: If traffic were moving and you were keeping to the right, you'd be creating an impromptu narrow bike lane.
I know that the left is where people mostly expect to see cars passing, not bikes, and I have actually seen motorists jump in alarm when a cyclist has ridden up the lane to their left. To the right, they at least somewhat seem to expect to see a bike. In my limited experience, anyway.
Last edited by Heifzilla; 06-03-09 at 07:27 AM.
#23
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Only the the butthole motorcylists with chips on their shoulders do it here. It's illegal in Illinois, and I know it totally pisses off motorists when it happens.
#24
Galveston County Texas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,238
Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked 1,249 Times
in
626 Posts
Most of them are pissed when they get behind a wheel.
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
#25
Fat Bottomed Fredwina
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Almost a cheesehead ;)
Posts: 174
Bikes: 1998 Raleigh SC-200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts