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Old 06-03-09, 07:20 AM   #26
Heifzilla
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So why are you so concerned about pissed off motorists?

Most of them are pissed when they get behind a wheel.
Why am I concerned? That's an odd question to ask considering you too read these boards and see what pissed off motorists do to cyclists. Unless you ignore those posts?

I don't believe in entitlement for motor vehicles. Motorists are not entitled to the road any more than a bicyclist is. However, I do believe that 2000 lbs of metal can kill me in an instant and act accordingly. If that means treating a motor vehicle with kid gloves and respect, so be it. I'd rather be alive to ride another day than be killed trying to prove a point.

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Old 06-03-09, 07:33 AM   #27
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I consider myself a vehicle when I am on the road. Which means I am subject to the rules of the road.
There is an old saying If that is the law then the law is an ass. Laws specific to trucks and cars cannot be applied to bicycles. Attempting to replace common sense with laws does not work.

I was in central Rome once. They had no traffic lights. The traffic was moving. People were crossing the street. I did not see any danger. Italians navigated the system with common sense not traffic lights.

As far as waiting in line behind stopped cars and moving with them like a vehicle, a bicycle moves at 5-10 mph. Trapping a car behind you is rude and stupid. When cars are not moving, bicycles should be moving, when cars are moving bicycles should not block them.
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Old 06-03-09, 07:39 AM   #28
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As far as waiting in line behind stopped cars and moving with them like a vehicle, a bicycle moves at 5-10 mph. Trapping a car behind you is rude and stupid. When cars are not moving, bicycles should be moving, when cars are moving bicycles should not block them.
So, when a car is stopped at a red light or a stop sign, and stop and go traffic is moving at about 5 mph, a bicycle should not be in the line of traffic even though they are perfectly capable of moving at the same speed as the cars at that moment? Or are you saying that taking the lane is rude and stupid since obviously bikes can't go as fast as cars can?
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Old 06-03-09, 08:03 AM   #29
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And people think motorists have entitlement issues.

well explain to me what benefit could possibly be gained from me waiting in the queue?

- I get to breathe the lovely exhaust fumes
- I get to sit and wait for no reason

It is legal to filter where I am, and motorcycles do it all the time, it doesn't affect motorists and definitely affects my journey time. If I was driving and I saw a cyclist waiting in the queue it would piss me off as a driver because it is a completely ******** thing to do UNLESS there is no other option or it is illegal.
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Old 06-03-09, 08:13 AM   #30
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The safest place for a bicyclist to wait out a red light is lane splitting at the head of the line*, stopped just kitty corner off the front car, trying to make your butt look as big as possible. By waiting in front of a car like that, the driver will very likely have seen you. Once the light changes, a bicycle can out-accelerate a car for the first 20 feet or so. This means that you'll likely be through the intersection and safely in a bike lane before the first car catches up to you - and that driver will have seen you. If you're going straight and that first car decides to turn right (perhaps without signaling), the driver will have seen you and you'll also be out of their way before they can even make the right turn. If you're making a left (and lane split between the left turn lane and the straight through lane), you'll be safely in an empty zone before the first cars pass 10 feet to your left and 10 feet to your right.

* To the right of the rightmost straight through lane, or to the right of the rightmost left turn lane, or in rare cases to the right of the rightmost right turn lane.
I fail to see your logic as to why this is the safest place for a bicyclist to be. In a road full of cars, you are expecting the vehicles to pass you at each intersection. Most of the time cars won't pass a bicycle with anything like a safe passing distance so you are subjecting yourself to constant buzzing by the cars you passed at the light. On the other hand, staying in line with the cars lets them go in front of you without having to repass. The cars behind you would have to pass you anyway so you aren't doubling the number of passes that you have to endure.

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If you wait in line behind other cars, a large gap may open up ahead of you as the cars ahead of you pull away. Drivers behind you may end up passing you. A yellow light runner may come flying up behind you without having seen you. (The car that passed you will have blocked the light runner's view.) Also - you might get caught by a yellow light. Most yellow light cycles aren't long enough for a bike to get through an intersection. This means you might still be in the intersection when the cross traffic gets a green light.
If you are worried that cars are going to pass you, why invite them to do it over and over again by filtering to the front of the line? As my wife says, the best place to be at an intersection is the last vehicle through the light. You have breathing space before vehicles turn from the side street.
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Old 06-03-09, 08:20 AM   #31
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Why am I concerned? That's an odd question to ask considering you too read these boards and see what pissed off motorists do to cyclists. Unless you ignore those posts?

I don't believe in entitlement for motor vehicles. Motorists are not entitled to the road any more than a bicyclist is. However, I do believe that 2000 lbs of metal can kill me in an instant and act accordingly. If that means treating a motor vehicle with kid gloves and respect, so be it. I'd rather be alive to ride another day than be killed trying to prove a point.
Sidewalks and MUVs were designed for insecure riders like you.
Ride Safe.
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Old 06-03-09, 08:33 AM   #32
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I fail to see your logic as to why this is the safest place for a bicyclist to be. In a road full of cars, you are expecting the vehicles to pass you at each intersection. Most of the time cars won't pass a bicycle with anything like a safe passing distance so you are subjecting yourself to constant buzzing by the cars you passed at the light. On the other hand, staying in line with the cars lets them go in front of you without having to repass. The cars behind you would have to pass you anyway so you aren't doubling the number of passes that you have to endure.

If you are worried that cars are going to pass you, why invite them to do it over and over again by filtering to the front of the line? As my wife says, the best place to be at an intersection is the last vehicle through the light. You have breathing space before vehicles turn from the side street.
Sometimes you can get far enough of cars that they are stopped at lights which you can safely jump - pedestrian lights, turning left (or right if you are in the US), such that you never see the vehicles again. This is much safer in my mind as long as you do it responsibly and I see people who don't do it responsibly, but there will always be those.
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Old 06-03-09, 08:34 AM   #33
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Its mostly a safety thing. Bikes are slow off the start and car drivers are impatient because that green arrow will turn red and they will have to wait for the next green. Bikes get in their way if too slow. Its actually being considerate for bikes to move up to the front so the cars can pass the bike on that left turn.
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Old 06-03-09, 08:58 AM   #34
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Old 06-03-09, 09:17 AM   #35
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I wait at red lights for the light to change, and I generally just take my place in line. I'm as fast off the start as the cars are, especially around corners -- it's not until they start to get up to speed that I'd be holding them up. Keep in mind, a majority of the roads I travel on are 55 mph. I cross the intersection in the lane, then move to the side as I clear the intersection.

My favorite place to be is a car or two back, and if I do filter up that's as far as I'll go. Being a car or two back gives me time (as those cars get moving) to get into my clips and to start pedaling. I'm not holding up the cars behind as long as I'm going the speed of the cars ahead , and I like to think that improves good will among the drivers behind me.

I don't trigger most of the lights around here, so having a car in front of me helps with that, too. I'll often let a car pass me so he can get on the trigger.

While I'm stopped, I keep an eye on what's behind me until there's something behind me. Once I have a car behind me, I don't worry about it anymore (seriously, it would take a pretty major bump from the cars behind him to send him into me).



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So why are you so concerned about pissed off motorists?

Most of them are pissed when they get behind a wheel.
Ya know, "Share the Road" means you, too.
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Old 06-03-09, 09:34 AM   #36
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I do exactly as you do, for the same reasons. It just doesn't make sense to me to want all of the benes of being a vehicle, and none of the responsibilities.

Besides, being a Police Commissioner, behoves me to follow the rules....... LOL
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Old 06-03-09, 09:49 AM   #37
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The safest place for a bicyclist to wait out a red light is lane splitting at the head of the line*
If there is an accident in the intersection, vehicles or parts thereof flying in random directions become a hazard. I can think of at least three occasions in the last five years where I was nearly hit by a car following projectile motion after a crash in front of me.

The corner isn't always the best place to be.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:33 AM   #38
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Sidewalks and MUVs were designed for insecure riders like you.
Ride Safe.
Dude, don't be an idiot. The insecurity seems to be on your end...along with the impatience and the rudeness. Perhaps you'd be better suited to driving yourself? Your insecurity crack to someone who is just stating their opinion was uncalled for. Drive safe.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:35 AM   #39
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The first thing to remember about a cat is that a cat is not a dog.
The first thing to remember about a bicycle is that a bicycle is not a car.
But both cars and bikes are vehicles and thus subject to the rules of the road for vehicles.
Viva la difference...and the similarities.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:36 AM   #40
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Dude, don't be an idiot. The insecurity seems to be on your end...along with the impatience and the rudeness. Perhaps you'd be better suited to driving yourself? Drive safe.
Drive what safe?
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Old 06-03-09, 10:37 AM   #41
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I do exactly as you do, for the same reasons. It just doesn't make sense to me to want all of the benes of being a vehicle, and none of the responsibilities.

Besides, being a Police Commissioner, behoves me to follow the rules....... LOL
Leadership by example? You commie!
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Old 06-03-09, 10:38 AM   #42
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Don't think of it as lane splitting. Think of it as following your lane as far as you can. In other words, your bike lane, which extends all the way to the intersection. And even if no bike lane is marked, pretend you have a 2 inch wide bike lane - because you really do: If traffic were moving and you were keeping to the right, you'd be creating an impromptu narrow bike lane.
That's the way I do it. The cars in line have passed me outside my lane. At a light I just catch up. Also the lines get long. If I stopped at the back, I couldn't make it through before it changed again.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:40 AM   #43
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Dude, don't be an idiot. The insecurity seems to be on your end...along with the impatience and the rudeness. Perhaps you'd be better suited to driving yourself? Your insecurity crack to someone who is just stating their opinion was uncalled for. Drive safe.
Your opinion of my crack was uncalled for.
Go back to work.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:41 AM   #44
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Drive what safe?
The car that would fit your 'tude better than a bike.
You wanna be my poster child for Cagers On Bikes...keep it up.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:43 AM   #45
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If there is an accident in the intersection, vehicles or parts thereof flying in random directions become a hazard. I can think of at least three occasions in the last five years where I was nearly hit by a car following projectile motion after a crash in front of me.

The corner isn't always the best place to be.
Then you always got the short-cutters too. Turning a car/truck while keeping the appropriate lane position seems to be a lost competency any more.
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Old 06-03-09, 10:47 AM   #46
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He is your poster pic.
It has a Safe Inside.

How many cups of coffee have you drank this morning?

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Old 06-03-09, 11:06 AM   #47
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Sidewalks and MUVs were designed for insecure riders like you.
Ride Safe.
I'm insecure because I respect that fact that a 2000 lb vehicle can kill me? Oooookay. Oh, crap. I wear a helmet, too! I am a scared wittle wider that shouldna be on the woad.

You ride safe, hon.

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Old 06-03-09, 11:22 AM   #48
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well explain to me what benefit could possibly be gained from me waiting in the queue?

- I get to breathe the lovely exhaust fumes
- I get to sit and wait for no reason

It is legal to filter where I am, and motorcycles do it all the time, it doesn't affect motorists and definitely affects my journey time. If I was driving and I saw a cyclist waiting in the queue it would piss me off as a driver because it is a completely ******** thing to do UNLESS there is no other option or it is illegal.
If it is legal for you to do it, then by all means you should be able to. The drivers will be expecting it. Unfortunately, in the States, there are only one or two states where it is legal to do so, and when riders do it anyway, it is illegal. You can't just create your own rules of the road and still consider others to take you seriously as a vehicle. Yes, motorists do things illegally ALL the time. However, the biggest difference is that motor vehicles are safely ensconced in their status as vehicles. Bicycles are not, yet, and riding illegally isn't going to win any brownie points or get bicycles to be accepted any easier as a vehicle by John Q. Public.

And to have the attitude that since someone is on a bike makes them better than someone in a car, doesn't have to follow the same rules of the road as the cars, and yet wants the same rights as a motorist and *****es, moans and has fits when they don't get it...that's entitlement. Just as so many cyclists complain about cager entitlement, I see cyclist entitlement running just as rampant.

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Old 06-03-09, 11:23 AM   #49
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It seems to me that I never read about anyone else on these boards doing this
I've never seen the need to write about, doesn't mean I don't do it. Especially since some of the roads I commute on are just dangerous.

I saw a cager nail a curb with both tires on the right side of their car this morning just after they passed me. I have no idea whether were over compensating for having moved over to pass me, not paying attention to the road, or just a bad driver.
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Old 06-03-09, 11:35 AM   #50
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I do it. When I get to the front I usually trackstand. Because it's fun and quicker (and therefore safer) once the light changes. annc put it well and I'll just add that I am responsible for my own safety, but I'm not particularly concerned about what goes on inside a motorist's head as long as he/she drives safely, legally, and predicatably--just as I attempt to do.
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