cyccommute 

Yet you, and other filterers, think that it's safer and easier to jump in front of a line of accelerating cars so that each one can pass you over and over again. I just don't get it.

cyccommute 

No. I'd find another route. It can't be the only road in your area.

10 Wheels

I ride the shoulder and pass up about 60 vehicles.

BarracksSi

Sure he could, but he'd add at least 10-15 miles to his route.

Every time I see a road like the one in his pics, it's the only good route for miles around. That also explains why there are so many vehicles on it.

I pass 30-40 cars on my short route, and get re-passed by maybe three of them. That's just how it goes in my neighborhood.

chipcom 

Filtering is pretty much a no-brainer when you got a nice bike lane/shoulder like that, as long as you watch out for impatient jerks who think their car can use it...and right hookers at the intersection itself.

Remove the nice bike lane/shoulder then ask the same question. Do you think there is room to safely share those lanes if you remove everything right of the fog line? Welcome to my world...you either take the lane and wait, detour where possible or use another route.

10 Wheels

I don't work for the highway dept.
Legal riders would get in line.

chipcom 

so where would you be if there was nothing but a ditch right of that fog line?

10 Wheels

Where would you be if your were a fairy?

ghettocruiser

Why do I even post here? No one reads a word I say. Good lord.

prathmann

Which won't earn you many friends among the motorists behind you if it's a sensor-controlled light with any substantial line of cars. Such lights stay green only until they sense a gap in the traffic flow and then switch to allow cross-traffic to proceed. A cyclist waiting in the line is likely to create such a gap and therefore force everyone behind him to wait through an additional cycle of the traffic lights. Overall traffic flow through most such intersections is better for both the cyclist and the motorists if the cyclist moves to the front so he can be across the intersection and move to the right as soon as the light changes.

Heifzilla

Until there is a separate rules of the road for cyclists, cyclists are supposed to follow the motor vehicle rules of the road. Which would mean not using that shoulder. By using it, a cyclist is saying "I am not really a vehicle, I don't have to follow the rules". And yet, cyclists want to be treated as vehicles. But won't follow the laws for vehicles.

p.s. No, I wouldn't want to sit in that lane of traffic, either. However, since I am considered a vehicle, and subject to the vehicular rules of the road, I am required by law to sit in that lane of traffic if I decide to ride that route because my state does not allow lane splitting and I am supposed to heed the signage there. If I didn't follow the rules, I would be riding illegally. You can't just pick and choose which laws you want to follow because they are or aren't convenient for you if you want to be considered a vehicle on the road. Either follow the rules of the road or go ride on the sidewalk where they don't apply.

xenologer

In California, its legal for me to split lanes on my bike and skip that line.
Sounds like your state has sensless backward laws that need to be rewritten with bikes in mind.

'because the law says so' is pretty weak reasoning considering so many of those laws are not written by people who've ever ridden a bike, and the fact that different states completely contradict should tell you something too.

tjwarren

This thread's getting a bit snarky. Maybe we can get back on track.


I live in a pretty rural area. My county has, I believe, only about 80,000 people in it. A good chunk of the roads I ride on are long, often stretching for miles between intersections. Speed limits are typically 45 - 55 mph. When there is an intersection, it tends to be very large.

When I'm just riding along one of these long stretches of road, I ride on the right out of the motorized traffic. I sometimes ride to the right of the white line, sometimes a foot or two to its left; it depends on the road and its condition. This strip, this right-most ridable portion of the road, we'll call my lane.

If I was just riding along in the picture 10 Wheels posted in #101, my lane would be in the clear and unrestricted shoulder to the right of all of the cars. In such an instance, what I do when I reach the traffic signal would depend on the circumstances. If there's no cross-traffic and I'm going straight, I ride up to the signal and stop, generally a car or two back. I then wait until the light changes before continuing across in my lane.

Being a car or two back gives me several advantages to being all the way in the front. For one, I'm able to see what the front cars are going to do. I don't need to worry about getting way out into the intersection (to make sure the front cars see me), so I don't need to worry about if they're turning or not. I can see if they are, and I can easily accomodate. The car next to me is far enough back that he doesn't need to scan the intersection, which means that he's most likely looking at the car in front of him. Once the light changes, I continue across the road in my lane.

I actually prefer red lights when I'm planning on turning. If traffic is moving as I approach a red light, I can easily merge with traffic (they're going to be slowing down anyway for the red light) and take the lane at the appropriate position. If traffic isn't moving, I will position myself as best I can. This sometimes means being three or four cars back, but even so I can usually hold my own through the intersection. I hold my lane until I'm through the intersection.


Whatever the circumstances, I return to my usual travel lane once it seems safe for me to do so.


In general, I agree with the original poster's main idea: when you're on a bike, I think you should act like a vehicle (because you are a vehicle, and you can't demand respect from drivers unless you show them respect first). Every vehicle travels in a lane; it's how roads work. Even though my lane isn't as well marked, it's still a lane: it's reasonably straight and it doesn't cut unnecessarily through other lanes. Splitting a lane is just driving willy-nilly wherever you want to be. Where I live, driving like that causes accidents.

But my roads are not your roads, and more importantly, my traffic is not your traffic. People who live in cities will obviously have different riding styles than those who ride in less urban areas. Whenever I drive in New York City, I'm always amazed by how much of a free-for-all it is: as long as you're not hitting anybody or anything, lanes don't really exist. You drive where you're able in order to get to the place you need to be, because sometimes where you need to be appears quite suddenly six lanes to your left and then two lanes to your right.


Around here though, riding like that just gives people something legitimate to complain about. When people ride like that around here, I think it makes the roads more dangerous for everyone.



As I said at the beginning of this very long post, I think this thread's become a bit snarky. I think the riding styles and opinions of the posters in this thread would be more meaningful if they had some context. So, for those who've already posted and for those who have yet to post:

What are your roads and traffic like? Why do you ride the way you do?

Heifzilla

Are you serious? Haha, and the laws that say you can't murder someone must be pretty weak, too, since those laws aren't written by people that have committed murder.

I find it incredible how so many people here seem to consider laws to be optional if they inconvenience them. If you split lanes in any other state besides California (and maybe Texas), you are breaking the law. If you don't like that law, work to change it. In the meantime, it's the law and you are supposed to be heeding it. I cannot *believe* the entitlement here by some of the cyclists, considering how the word is so thrown around about cagers as if it's a horrible, no good thing for cagers to have. So many people scream about how the cagers break the laws, and yet it is perfectly acceptable for cyclists to do it? The mind, it BOGGLES. Boggles.

BarracksSi

I find it incredible that you're equating lane-splitting with murder.

Maybe the reason you're so mad at us is because you're the one who wrote those cycling laws and can't stand it when someone tells you that they're wrong.

chipcom 

in your face, taunting you for avoiding a direct question.
Call me Tinkerbell.

chipcom 

Sorry, but no cigar. The minimum 'gap' is much larger than you think because competent traffic engineers design for safety...not tailgating - and competent cyclists can move as fast as cars through intersections from a stop. Nice try tho.

Bekologist

I think Heffzilla is a little confused (and maybe worked up) but states. All states allow bikes and cars to share lanes of travel.

splitting lanes is illegal in many states for motorbikes, but bicycles and cars are allowed to share lanes- the sticky wicket is the laws are written assuming the bicyclists would be going slower than the cars.

as traffic congestion rears up and bites american cities, passing congested traffic on the shoulder- illegal to ride a bike on a shoulder of a road? flippin' HILARIOUS! I bet THAT one gets enforced a lot. I can see the scenario, a cop pulls over a bicyclist riding on the shoulder of a 50mph road like those posted by 10 wheels, tickets him, makes him take the travel lane and then follows him for a bit to ensure he is slowing up traffic.

sometimes common sense really does rule the order of the day. if you want to show your solidarity to cars and get stuck in traffic jams go right ahead- Some of the motorists STILL HATE YOU, heffzilla. for riding on the road in the first place.

ghettocruiser

^^Word.

I'm still not getting why, when I'm LEGALLY REQUIRED to share a (standard-width) lane with cars overtaking me, people think I'm a scofflaw when I share the same lane to overtake them.

Even in a narrow lane when I'm riding centrist, at least 75% of the cars that pass me still have two wheels in the left part of my lane. And you know what? I don't care.

annc

Check your local laws about cycling on the shoulder. In addition to lane splitting, riding on the shoulder is permitting in California.

21650.1. A bicycle operated on a roadway, or the shoulder of a highway, shall be operated in the same direction as vehicles are required to be driven upon the roadway.

jack002

I find it incredible how so many people here seem to consider laws to be optional if they inconvenience them.
You talk like all laws are perfect and make sense and everyone should follow them unquestioningly. I have a real poser for you. In MO now for like 3 years we have had a law that says if your wipers are on your lights must be on. Do people do it? No. The COPS don't all do it, about 2/3 or 3/4 of all the drivers dont do it. Explain to me how this is possibe? And dont use "murder" as part of the explaination, ok?

BarracksSi

I know that some cars have an automatic switch to turn on the lights if you turn on the wipers. Bummer for me -- mine still requires me to turn on the lights myself. Oh darn.

(law or not, this one should be common sense -- many accidents happen by hitting, or getting hit by, things that are anywhere but directly in front of the car and visible through the wiper-cleaned windshield. Since my headlights can make me more visible through someone's rain-splashed side and rear windows, then damn right I'm gonna turn them on)

Kevrob

Here's another data point, from Connecticut, regarding the shoulder:

Of course, that when present is important, too. On a bunch of the roads I ride, there isn't anything to the right of the white line except a guardrail or somebody's stone wall.

Kevin

BarracksSi

Most of the white lines in my area are on small glass mirrors..

prathmann

Not in my experience. You seem to be assuming that the line of cars will be moving pretty slowly after the light turns green. At the intersections I'm thinking of that's not the case and the line will soon be going well above typical cycling speeds. The cyclist in the line then has a choice - move over to the right and face the prospect that some of the cars passing him are likely to be turning right as they reach the corner and execute a right hook; or continue to claim his position in the lane and block the cars from passing. The first choice is usually unsafe if there's any significant fraction of right-turners and the second results in a sizable gap opening up - more than enough to let the traffic sensor conclude that it's time to switch the lights.