dougmc

So I'm not a particularly strong cyclist. I'm adequate, but I don't do so well on hills.

I'm about 40 lbs overweight and I know that's a lot of it, but I don't think it's all of it.

So I hit a hill, I shift down and go up the hill. If I push it too hard, I peter out and have to stop as expected. If I go slower I can keep going all the way up, though often I can't gear down enough if the hill is steep. (I even put a MTB cassette on my road bike to get lower gears, but even the lowest gear often isn't enough for a 20% grade, for example.)

But one thing is that I never get out of my seat. I know most people stand on the pedals when they're going up the hill and I've tried it, but it feels so weird and uncomfortable (though perhaps that's more weirdness than anything else) that I never want to keep it up. I'd rather just stay in my seat and pedal away.

I've had some knee problems in the past (a year ago) -- turned out to be tendonitis -- but I've gotten stronger since then and haven't had any more serious problems with it, but still, if I let my cadence drop and try to make up with strength, my knees (or tendons in my knees?) will be unhappy with me.

Ultimately, I think my legs are reasonably strong (well, not so much strong, but able to maintain a reasonable cadence) but it's other things that limit my ability to climb -- heart, lungs, liver?

So I want to climb better. Of course, the #1 thing to do is to climb more (relatively easy -- just do it). #2 is likely to be to lose weight (much harder, but still doable.) But beyond that, should I try to do it standing? Keep doing it in the saddle? Push slightly higher gears than I'm comfortable (so I go faster than I can keep for a long period) with and then rest (interval training I guess)?

cyclezealot

Sure helps when I sense I am about to get cramps in my quads.

daredevil

If you can't sustain it out of the saddle, try gearing down. Personally, I love standing. My knees have been protesting lately though.

Also, just recently I dropped about 5 lbs pretty much by accident and the difference is noticeable but less weight to help climbing is pretty obvious.

dougmc

I never have problems with cramping in my legs. I don't know if it's because I just can't sprint long enough or what -- but if I push myself hard, it's not my legs that stop me but my chest. Once I've caught my breath again (a few minutes of low exertion or rest), my legs are ready again.

Some back of the envelope calculations based on how fast I go up hills of a known grade and my weight (plus bike) suggests that I can sustain about 120 watts for over an hour (with no problems), and can sprint at about 400 watts for about 30-45 seconds before I'm close to death.

If I sprint while in the drops, I get sick to my stomach (well, my lower abdomen -- it's hard to say exactly what hurts.) If I'm more upright it can still happen but it takes longer. I'm guessing that this is largely due to my weight -- being in the drops let's my gut puts pressure on things.

I guess I really need to just force myself to ride out of the saddle occasionally, get used to it, see what my knees can tolerate. For now, it just feels so weird that I don't want to do it. But it works for other people ...

UmneyDurak

Stand vs not stand is mostly a personal preference. Also it depends on the hill. Generally speaking standing provides short bursts of power. In other words you produce more power, but expand more energy. So some people do it on shorter/steeper hills/section of a climb. Also it's nice to do just to stretch your legs. For sustained climbing most people just seat, find comfortable cadence and chug along. It is also a great way to work on your pedaling technique. Concentrate on smooth "circular" motion. Clipless pedals help with that.

lunchbox1972

+1 on the pedal motion.. I've been working on that and it makes a world of difference.. Smooth the bottom of the stroke and make an effort to remove weight/lift up the pedal on the return.. Wow, is all I can say..

I try to stand more often, just because it's nice to be out of the saddle, but I don't seem to climb any faster.. Probably because my cadence drops way down..

njlonghorn

+1. For hills that push me to the limit, I stay in the seat and pedal at a higher cadence. If I have anything left in the tank near the top, I'll go up 2-5 gears (depending on how much I have left in the tank, and how many more hills I have to get over that day), stand, and mash to the top. I like the feeling of powering over the crest rather than limping over it.

For easy to medium hills, roughly half way up, I go up 2-3 gears, stand up, and put out a burst for 5-15 seconds before dropping the gears back down, sitting down, and spinning again. This is especially effective for me during a short, steep stretch. I'll then stand again near the top.

As others have mentioned, this is largely a matter of personal preference. I used to HATE standing, until I got comfortable with the right gear choice. If you stand up without enough tension in the pedals, it feels all wrong. And if you stand up with too much tension, your legs fall off.

TurbineBlade

I like to stand to sprint over smaller hills (steep, but not long) because it is quicker and easier than gearing down, then back up.

For longer stuff I gear down like usual. I think standing and sprinting and/or climbing is probably good to do for maintaining your power....but doing it a lot on longer rides would certainly induce more fatigue.

MichaelW

I used to ride a lot of steep hills. On the steepest sections I would stand up to avoid loosing cadence in my lowest gear.
On big mountains with a loaded tourer I use MTB gears and spin. Often I sit back and use the muscles behind my knees more than usual.
Since I changed my commuter bike from a road style bike to a more MTB style I find it really tricky to stand and attack a hill. Im not sure why.

BarracksSi

dougmc, how old were you when you started biking up hills?

I'm not trying to be smarmy; I'm only asking because, on my first bike (20" kids' bike at 7 years old), I had no choice but to stand and stomp on the pedals. I even weaved back and forth if the street was quiet enough, but there was no such thing as sitting and spinning, even if I wanted to. Standing on the pedals, then, feels natural to me.

What I do today is the same as what I did back then, at least when it comes to standing on climbs: Use a taller gear. It'll have to be tall enough that it feels like walking upstairs or using a Stairmaster at the gym.

The drawback is that, as noted by others, it's harder to sustain. My heart rate spikes when I stand, so my high efforts are only enough for shorter hills. If I can't make it up far enough, I gear down (often just dropping to the smaller chainring in front) and start spinning.

knobster

I've recently, over the past couple of months, have been concentrating on technique than anything else. One of the things that I have found that works for me has been to make sure to get my calves involved in the stroke. When I did that, it smoothed out my pedal stroke and gave me considerably more power. One of the other things I've been playing with is using a big/big combo. I have a 48 big gear and a 27 on the cassette. This has gotten me up a large amount of local climbs here that are sustained. Not sure why, but it seems easier and I believe it may be due to the added leverage from turning a bigger sprocket. I'm sure I'm talking out my ass here, but it did seem easier on the miles of climbs I've done this way.

markjenn

Agree with what has been said. Assuming you have low-enough gearing, it is always more efficient to remain seated and keep your cadence up. But you can get more ultimate power standing. If the hill gets really steep, standing may be your only option to keep moving once you run out of gearing. And it's often a nice change of pace, opens up your chest to get some deep breathing in, and helps stretch muscles that might be cramping up.

I'd work to add standing to your repertoire - it will add variety to your climbing and give you more options. And don't be afraid to shift up a gear or two when you stand - I find my most comfortable standing gear is one or two gears higher than my most comfortable sitting gear.

All that being said, it's a preference thing and if you prefer to chug up the hill remaining seated, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

- Mark

Laurel Lane

I never stand unless it's a tiny sharp rise that can be taken in mere seconds. I always try to keep an even perception of effort. This means dropping gears and spinning. Others have success standing, not me. I think it takes more out of you to run a course doing intervals - which is what standing feels like to me. Steady all the way untill the last 5-10% of the course, then die an ugly death.

knobster

I think a lot of people don't understand that there is a difference between standing and sprinting and standing and pedaling. When I stand on a climb, I'm usually doing it to give my body some difference so it can recover a little. I am not pulling up on the pedals or mashing, but mainly using my body weight to push the pedals down. My cadence usually drops a little, but I don't drop much and neither does my speed. What it does do is gives me a little recovery time for when I sit back down and finish the rest of the climb. I personally think it helps me quite a bit on long sustained climbs.

Nermal

I think bike geometry is coming into play. When I had the old mountain bike I felt like I were going over the bars whenever I stood to pedal.

genec

Cyclists riding on recumbents do not stand up... therefore they are quite capable of climbing hills while in a very much seated position.

Staying seated will be easier on your knees... But you will likely have to get different gears.

Even when standing I still strive to spin my legs rather than grunt up a hill.

daredevil

I agree. It is possible to stand on a climb and not drain yourself. You just have to find the right gear.

knobster

Exactly. For me, I find this is a couple jumps up which means a slower cadence.

dougmc

Dunno. Like many, my first bikes were your typical kid's single speed banana seat bikes. And I rode the hell out of them. But it was a flat area. Later, my mom got me a 10 speed, but hills hadn't really magically developed and so I just went faster.

Then I moved to Austin. There's hills here, but then I got my license and didn't ride much.

Riding more seriously came just a few years ago, and I've always had geared bikes for that, and I've taken advantage of the gears. Perhaps I used to stand on the pedals, but if so, I've totally forgotten. I've just been spinning up hills. It works, as long as I pace myself appropriately -- but steep hills make even that difficult.

I use clipless pedals already, and I think my form is reasonable, but I'll see if I can pay more attention to that.

Nermel, you felt like you'd go over the bars when you stand? Hmm, that makes sense. Sometimes while I'm sprinting up a really steep (but probably short) hill, it feels like I'm going to flip over backwards. But this is me sitting and spinning -- I guess standing might reduce that then.

RedC

I'm more like 60lbs overweight (down from 90) and after a year of trying I'm finally beginning to get up out of the saddle more and more and I love it. Never thought I'd be able to do it but it sure helps.

MMACH 5

I sit for most of the way up hills. I do stand up if my cadence starts to drop, just to wind it back up to where I'm comfortable.

dekindy

Standing adds power but at a cost of a greater energy requirement. While standing your legs are supporting your weight instead of the bicycle frame. Standing as compared to sitting will add several beats, maybe as many as 10, to your heart rate. The only reason to stand is to go up the hill at a faster rate or to give your legs a rest if you are on a long hill and you can stand up without going anaerobic.

If you cannot make it to the top anyway then standing will hasten having to stop. My buddy is working with me to pace me up hills using my lowest gear while remaining seated. The lower the pace the less watts required and the more likely you are to complete the hill. As a result, I am getting much farther up the hill compared to my old style of going faster and standing. Like you say, if the grade gets too steep and is very long in length, I just have to stop and walk when I run out of wind.

This is a long winded way of saying that the strategy you are already using is the best. Lose weight is the key and hill training but you already know that. If it helps I am in the same situation but only need to lose 20 pounds.

BarracksSi

Yeah, you're talking out your ass...

I wonder if part of it is that it's a bit faster, but that also depends on what you'd use with the smaller sprocket. If you were to use, say, the 3rd or 4th biggest cog, the ratio would be close to the big-big combo you describe. But, if the big-big combo is a taller ratio overall, you're going faster and, literally, spending less time climbing the hill.

The bigger difference would be that you're simply getting stronger. I remember taking a particular hill in the big ring for the first time and being pretty happy about it.

TRaffic Jammer

I generally try to stay seated as long as possible. When I do stand it's either to spin back up to preferred cadence, or to power up. If I'm on the pedals thought I find the trick is to keep the bike as still as humanly possible to keep as much energy as possible getting into the forward momentum as opposed to rocking back and forth.

Joe_Mo

I think people who stand while biking for more than just a stretch, have very weak legs and need to train more.