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Thread: A thank you.

  1. #1
    ex frame builder
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    I am an ex frame builder and almost daily I hear from people I have never met but tell me their lives have been touched in some small way by my work. At least touched enough to take the time to write and tell me. Some emails are brief; others tell interesting stories of how a bicycle I built has become part of their life.

    To explain why this means a lot to me; when I left the bike business 1993 I was thoroughly burned out and slightly bitter. I felt I had wasted a large part of my life. I had spent over thirty five years building bicycle frames and felt like a deserted spouse in that my customers had gone off with a new love, namely mountain bikes. I tried to get into building MTBs but my heart was never in it. There is no beauty in a mountain bike because it is the bastard child of the BMX bike, which is a bicycle pretending to be a motor cycle.

    I am a now a writer and when I opened my website some two years ago to promote my then upcoming novel I made no mention of my previous career as a bicycle frame builder. After over ten years out of the business I felt no one would remember. I did write to Bicycling magazine one time but they couldn’t even grace me with a reply. I figured the entire staff of that magazine were probably in their twenties and therefore had only just reached puberty about the time I left the business.

    A few bike enthusiasts and people in the business heard about my book and contacted me, some sending pictures and so I added a 'Bicycle Section' to my website. As others found my site through the various search engines they in turn contacted me and the Bicycle Section grew. I hear from people who have owned one of my bikes from new and from others who knew nothing about me but then stumbled on one of my bikes on EBay. They bought it, and then started searching information about the builder.

    I’m posting this to thank those who have restored my faith in the bike enthusiast and have made me realize that the years I spent building frames was not wasted, and to any others out there who might be interested enough in my past work to check out my website at: www.ProdigalChild.net

  2. #2
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
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    Hi Dave, had a quick look at the site, nice.


    "There is no beauty in a mountain bike because it is the bastard child of the BMX bike, which is a bicycle pretending to be a motor cycle."

    Is just wrong. Tom Ritchey adapted road type geometry, then in the late 1980's elongated the triangles and inclined the toptube.
    Both types of frames were in developement at the same time. As to mtb having no beauty I refer to:

    Mountain Goat.
    Ritchey.
    Breeze.
    Fat Chance.
    Fischer.
    Brodie.
    Ibis

    Many beautiful bikes. 1990, Ritchey decides to stop 'fancy' dropouts and ornate brazing? used on 'mtb's' and build racing bikes.
    They are not nearly as cosmetically pleasing as early designs, brutal in fact, but they won, and factory frame design changed again.

    I specific ride a handbuilt frame by T.Ritchey, I love the skill and art of welding.
    My 'brutalist' racing frame is mostly stripped of paint ( 'cept the seattube) and clear coated.
    A beautiful example of welding skill, and a artistic statement of structural dynamism.

    The first mtb made was by Joe Breeze and was adapted from Scwinn curved frames.
    Similar, my first jump bikes were Mustangs, also curve tube. The bmx moto bikes broke too. The only good moto I had features a motorcycle shok for a toptube and a hinge near the bb. Stupid, but fun. 1978?

    The incline toptube often assosiated with womens bikes became a revolution in cycling and now is part of road bikes, xc, bxm, dh etc.

    I do not believe bmx is a bastard motocross, (yes they had funny plastic gastanks in 1978), as much as mtb's are. As stated, Breeze did a Schwinn style, he was first (2 frames) Ritchey, built a traditional triangle more road style with horizontal level toptube. His were the first avail to public, and his design was approved for Japans factories to produce for R.Mountain and Special?

    Anyway, not fond of the factory bikes, probably like one of yours!
    I like the real deal, the craftmans work.
    I believe my next mtb will also be a hand built, this time, custom frame. Perhaps I can help make the mtb beautiful.
    My bike is a mixture of bmx, xc and mountain components.
    Designed for an aggressive offroad ride, it may be ugly, rides beautifully and that's what counts!

    Peace, >Jef.

    P.S, you probably are aware, being a framebuilder, of most of these points.
    Perhaps some other mtbers are not so I wrote 'em anyway. >j.
    Last edited by jeff williams; 08-04-04 at 01:42 PM.

  3. #3
    ex frame builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    Hi Dave, had a quick look at the site, nice.


    "There is no beauty in a mountain bike because it is the bastard child of the BMX bike, which is a bicycle pretending to be a motor cycle."

    Is just wrong. Tom Ritchey adapted road type geometry, then in the late 1980's elongated the triangles and inclined the toptube.
    Both types of frames were in developement at the same time. As to mtb having no beauty I refer to:

    Mountain Goat.
    Ritchey.
    Breeze.
    Fat Chance.
    Fischer.
    Brodie.
    Ibis
    Hi Jeff,

    Well I got your attention. Of course I respect all the people you listed above. They wouldn’t still be in business if they were not doing something right. You are obviously a serious MTB rider but how many people who own mountain bikes are? About the same percentage of people who take their SUVs off road. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think SUVs are ugly too but by the number on the road obviously I am in the minority.

    What got me interested in bicycles as a fourteen year old and eventually led to my becoming a frame builder was that the racing bicycle looked so light, flimsy and fragile and yet was so very strong. Somehow for me this was lost when they built bikes with fat tires and fat tubes.

    But all this nostalgia is a thing of the past and I was probably wrong to say the mountain bike was a bastard child because it is legitimate, but still an ugly baby.

    Best regards,
    Dave Moulton.

  4. #4
    Senior Member royalflash's Avatar
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    Hi Dave

    I looked at your site and you have done some really beautiful work. I don´t feel qualified to disagree with you but maybe just say that MTB´s are not completely all negative. They have advantages over racing bikes particularly for novice riders, They are more forgiving of mistakes and the riding position over short distances at least can be more comfortable. So I feel that they do make cycling more accessible for new riders at least. The main thing is to get people out on bikes and out of their cars. I think that one of the reasons that cycling during the 70s became less popular was that the racing bike (which was almost the only choice then) did not offer a good introduction for new cyclists. Maybe after 35 years you just felt like you had had enough of bicycles and needed a new direction.

  5. #5
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
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    Fancy lugwork is probably obtuse on the mtb.

    What beautiful with mtbing is the freedom to explore and ride all terrain. I ride a race bike fast on the road, slow in the woods.

    I think sometime soon i'll take welding courses to make a Chromo frame, some of my ideas are specific cosmetic\structural. I want to include gussets to the frame and laser cut out designs in them to make 'em lighter and attractive.

    My Ritchey has the smallest diameter steel tubes of any mtb i've seen, all three main triangle tubes are different diameters. The seat tube has been hand ovaled where it meets the bb. Ritchey then stuck a 140mm tandem axle on it, it's an inclined 22 inch toptube\16 seat, from 1990-91. Prototype for the 1991-93 NORBA wins by Ritchey. My bikes # is under 050, P-Series.
    I rescued it last year, it's beautiful compared to the Alu monsters with weld beads the size of ropes you tie up a boat with.

    http://www.firstflightbikes.com/atb.htm Yummy stuff, wish it was a store!

    >jef.
    Last edited by jeff williams; 08-04-04 at 03:59 PM.

  6. #6
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
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    From the website link under Ibis. Carbon and Ti. WOW! Beautiful!
    Dave, the 1985 Dave Moulton / Campagnolo Cobalto is also very beautiful. I really like the name engraved or cast on the bb.
    I saw a Marin? in town with the name embossed on the toptube, raised maybe 2mm. Fancy!

    >jef.
    Last edited by jeff williams; 08-05-04 at 11:46 AM.

  7. #7
    ex frame builder
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    [QUOTE=Dave Moulton]
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    Hi Dave, had a quick look at the site, nice.


    "There is no beauty in a mountain bike because it is the bastard child of the BMX bike, which is a bicycle pretending to be a motor cycle."

    Is just wrong. Tom Ritchey adapted road type geometry, then in the late 1980's elongated the triangles and inclined the toptube.
    Both types of frames were in developement at the same time. As to mtb having no beauty I refer to:

    Mountain Goat.
    Ritchey.
    Breeze.
    Fat Chance.
    Fischer.
    Brodie.
    Ibis

    Hi Jeff,

    Well I got your attention. Of course I respect all the people you listed above. They wouldn’t still be in business if they were not doing something right. You are obviously a serious MTB rider but how many people who own mountain bikes are? About the same percentage of people who take their SUVs off road. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think SUVs are ugly too but by the number on the road obviously I am in the minority.

    What got me interested in bicycles as a fourteen year old and eventually led to my becoming a frame builder was that the racing bicycle looked so light, flimsy and fragile and yet was so very strong. Somehow for me this was lost when they built bikes with fat tires and fat tubes.

    But all this nostalgia is a thing of the past and I was probably wrong to say the mountain bike was a bastard child because it is legitimate, but still an ugly baby.

    Best regards,
    Dave Moulton.
    And even ugly babies can be loved.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    And even ugly babies can be loved.


    If you say so....



    Welcome to the forums!

    Koffee

  9. #9
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
    Somehow for me this was lost when they built bikes with fat tires and fat tubes.
    Considering they have been building bikes with fat tyres and fat tubes for probably as long if not longer than you've been alive, then you must have always hated bikes. Most of us began our love of cycling on bikes with fat tyres... even before mountain bikes.



    I think you have a grudge against mountain bikes and mountain biking because you were unable to capitalise on the trend and changes in the industry. This however does not invalidate the sport nor detract from the beauty of the equipment. To me as an engineer, MTBs have their own beauty that can equal or rival that of the finest road racer. Some of them can be ugly too but that in itself has a certain value of beauty. However, as you say, "beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder" and your opinion is your opinion as mine is mine.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  10. #10
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    http://www.firstflightbikes.com/atb.htm Yummy stuff, wish it was a store!
    Ahh yes, you've pointed to one of my favourite websites. I'm sort of glad it wasn't a store as I have enough trouble buying the stuff that's available. BTW, I fail to see how anyone could deny the beauty of that Ibis. Simply gorgeous! And an original Ritchey is like an original work of art. I'm jealous. I think my aim right now is to acquire a mint-condition Bridgestone MB-1 or MB-2 with the infamous Ritchey fork design. I've also always been in love with the Mantis bikes. I had a mass-produced 1990 Nishiki Ariel.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  11. #11
    'Bent Brian
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    If you want some really wild (and beautiful) frames go look at some of the 'bents. You have curved monotubes, stretched triangular, A mix of curved and straight, square tubes, round tubes, and everything in between.

    'bent Brian

  12. #12
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khuon
    Ahh yes, you've pointed to one of my favourite websites. I'm sort of glad it wasn't a store as I have enough trouble buying the stuff that's available. BTW, I fail to see how anyone could deny the beauty of that Ibis. Simply gorgeous! And an original Ritchey is like an original work of art. I'm jealous. I think my aim right now is to acquire a mint-condition Bridgestone MB-1 or MB-2 with the infamous Ritchey fork design. I've also always been in love with the Mantis bikes. I had a mass-produced 1990 Nishiki Ariel.
    The Bridgestone is IMO, a factory Ritchey. Same geom, different metal and of couse, not welded by Tom.
    Should be as responsive, but heavier and debateably not as strong as Ritchey was using proprietary metals. Also doubtful the seattube was ovaled. This stops the bb from flexing and allows use of a smaller diameter tube.
    I did post 1, I saw on ebay in BF knowing your interest in them, It did not feature the dual crown? fork.
    Nice looking fork though- If I see one ever I'll let you know.

    I think a post 91 Ritchey would be nicer than a Bridgestone. Post 91, he (Tom) inclined the frames, made more of a 'race' geom. The big problem is almost all 90,s Ritchey frames were raced to death.
    They were the real first mtb racing bikes developed that were considered, So they got ridden into the dirt.

    Mine hung on a wall in a local bike store for years, then ridden by kids.
    It still has a great deal of tensile resistance in the frame, but I want a new one, The Ritchey Niti.
    Very similar to my bike geom and definatly a Ritchey race geometry. 800 for the frame.

    Geez, I bought a Ritch for $150, and my bike tastes went up 1000%. Now I want $1500 Ritcheys.

    http://www.oldmountainbikes.com/ I'm pretty sure you've seen this site dedecated to Ritchey, I'm posting for others also, case they are interested in the bikes or Tom.
    Mines no longer with info, not sure what is up with that, maybe because it's all custom bmx\xc parts.

    >jef.
    Last edited by jeff williams; 08-05-04 at 11:42 AM.

  13. #13
    ex frame builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koffee Brown


    If you say so....



    Welcome to the forums!

    Koffee
    Thanks for the welcome Koffee. Seems I stirred up trouble.....Didn't mean to.....Oh well!

  14. #14
    I couldn't car less. jeff williams's Avatar
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    Are you kidding Dave?

    Most post are "are Trek good bikes?"
    This is a great thread! Its about the beauty and workmanship in bikes.

    I think it is very cool you posted, I love to argue, I only mtb though so we won't be talking often. We have a member who is a framebuilder with a company in new Zealand?

    Thylacine, of Thylacine cycles. You could get his site from the members list, then link.

    Oh, and just because you are a FANTASTIC framebuilder and metal artist, doesn't mean I'm not gonna disagree with you. Well, perhaps I won't shoot my mouth off as much as usual, considering you DO know what you are talking about.

    Have yourself a great day Dave.

    >jef.

  15. #15
    Thinks-she-knows-it-all DragonMistress's Avatar
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    I love my mountain bicycles, although my tastes in frame shape are very sturdy and geometric. I love the forwards and uprwards surge of an inclined topbar. Even the reacing bike I am angling to get has that general shape.

    I think mountain bikes look very strong and capable, especialy my Roadmaster...I dont' want to say how many hours I"ve spent measuring the distances and angles of it, and finding obscure bits of beauty on a more mathematical sense. The rear forks are offset to compensate for the sprocket, making the rear wheel perfectly centered. I find that beautiful. Maybe common place. Maybe common sense. I see it as beauty.

    I love to ride a big steel-frame mountain bike, go plunging down anything from highway blacktop to the middle of a trackless woods. There's a feeling of life and motion to it that I can't quite explain. The closest I can come is o say it's what it would be like to be a jockey and have the consciousness of both the horse and the rider. There is something secure and yet exhalirating.

    By contrast, the spiderwebby construction of the racing bike has an entirely different thrill and feel. The bike vanishes underneath you, and it always seems to me that there's nothing else but air around me. It's more of a flight feel.

    Not to mention that I"m too rough on my bikes as far as curbs, sidewalks, stairs, etc to risk getting aboard an expensive racer. I know my mountains can handle a bit of violent riding and the occasional bike-vs-automobile dispute. (My college campus has the worst drivers ever and I've been hit-and-runned several times)

  16. #16
    Industry Maven Thylacine's Avatar
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    Please, PLEASE tell me that book wasn't printed with that jacket design.
    Have you earned your stripes? <<click here / Questions about custom frames? Chat me! - warwickg71 (AIM/iChat) ThylacineCycles (Skype)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Please, PLEASE tell me that book wasn't printed with that jacket design.
    The book cover picture was distorted on my website; it made the text look like it was drawn by a six year old.

    I’ve replaced the picture; I hope this is what you were referring to. A lot of book sales come from Amazon.com and other online merchants. The book cover has to look good when it is shown as a thumbnail about an inch or so high. It was designed with this in mind by a professional who specializes in cover design.

    Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I welcome constructive criticism; maybe you could email me.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=khuon]Considering they have been building bikes with fat tyres and fat tubes for probably as long if not longer than you've been alive, then you must have always hated bikes. Most of us began our love of cycling on bikes with fat tyres... even before mountain bikes.



    Reponse from Dave Moulton.

    You raise an interesting point, fat tire bikes have been around for a long time in America. Not the rest of the world; this is an American thing. Fat tires are built into the American psyche like big cars. These huge SUVs built today are every bit as big and heavy as the cars of the 1950s or 1960s they’re just taller instead of longer. No one cares about fuel efficiency even though deep down they may think this is a good idea.

    So the fact that fat tires make the bike harder to ride is neither here nor there; nobody cares; it’s what the people want. I really do not want to argue about this; I am no longer in the bike business so I have no axe to grind. We came over from Europe and tried to get you to ride our skinny tired bikes and we failed; just as the auto manufacturers failed to get people to drive small cars.

    I have lived in this country for over twenty-five years now and love it; it’s why I’m still here. Part of what makes this the best country in the world is freedom to do whatever you want, but may I also remind you of another freedom. Freedom of speech; so be gentle with me; just because I think your MTBs are ugly, I’m not saying you shouldn’t ride ‘em.

    Hey, what ever blows yer skirt up!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    Are you kidding Dave?

    Most post are "are Trek good bikes?"
    This is a great thread! Its about the beauty and workmanship in bikes.

    I think it is very cool you posted, I love to argue, I only mtb though so we won't be talking often. We have a member who is a framebuilder with a company in new Zealand?

    Thylacine, of Thylacine cycles. You could get his site from the members list, then link.

    Oh, and just because you are a FANTASTIC framebuilder and metal artist, doesn't mean I'm not gonna disagree with you. Well, perhaps I won't shoot my mouth off as much as usual, considering you DO know what you are talking about.

    Have yourself a great day Dave.

    >jef.
    Thanks Jef,

    I needed that. I guess I was whining a bit in my original post that started all this. But I never expected this to happen. It has sure given me a lot of food for thought, and the mind needs food as much as the body. So lets keep it going, but please let's keep it friendly; I love all bike riders including mountain bike riders even if I hate your ugly bikes.

    You have a great day too.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff williams
    Fancy lugwork is probably obtuse on the mtb.

    What beautiful with mtbing is the freedom to explore and ride all terrain. I ride a race bike fast on the road, slow in the woods.

    I think sometime soon i'll take welding courses to make a Chromo frame, some of my ideas are specific cosmetic\structural. I want to include gussets to the frame and laser cut out designs in them to make 'em lighter and attractive.

    My Ritchey has the smallest diameter steel tubes of any mtb i've seen, all three main triangle tubes are different diameters. The seat tube has been hand ovaled where it meets the bb. Ritchey then stuck a 140mm tandem axle on it, it's an inclined 22 inch toptube\16 seat, from 1990-91. Prototype for the 1991-93 NORBA wins by Ritchey. My bikes # is under 050, P-Series.
    I rescued it last year, it's beautiful compared to the Alu monsters with weld beads the size of ropes you tie up a boat with.

    http://www.firstflightbikes.com/atb.htm Yummy stuff, wish it was a store!

    >jef.
    Looks like a larger version of a BMX bike to me. If it's not a bastard child, it's a close cousin. I'm not criticizing the bike or it's workmanship which is obviously excellent; just making an observation about it's appearance.

  21. #21
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,

    as I said in another thread welcome to the forums.

    As a confirmed roadie I've been known to throw out the term
    "mountain bike ugly" which I believe puts me squarely in the retrogrouch
    catagory (never mind the Ergo shifting on one of my roadies).
    I think Khuon has an interesting point, If my memory serves correctly
    didn't the whole MTB thingy start with the likes of Ritchey, Cunningham,
    Fischer et al bombing down fire roads on old balloon tire bikes?
    For me, if a bike is actually ridden, I don't care what it's intended
    purpose is, Sure many a MTB never sees a trail or gets off pavement
    but if the owner uses it who am I to criticize? I just try to point out
    they might be better served with a road bike.
    Glad to hear that you are coming out of the doldrums, and that
    you are finding your way back to the cycling community.
    I think you'll find that alot of us older riders do remember you,
    and the frames/bikes you built.
    So, my next question is, do you have any plans to ease your
    way back into framebuilding again? (we can only hope!).

    anyhow, hope you stick around, its always nice to get
    a different perspective on things, especially when the author
    knows what he/she is talking about.

    Marty
    Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    Hi Dave,

    as I said in another thread welcome to the forums.

    As a confirmed roadie I've been known to throw out the term
    "mountain bike ugly" which I believe puts me squarely in the retrogrouch
    catagory (never mind the Ergo shifting on one of my roadies).
    I think Khuon has an interesting point, If my memory serves correctly
    didn't the whole MTB thingy start with the likes of Ritchey, Cunningham,
    Fischer et al bombing down fire roads on old balloon tire bikes?
    For me, if a bike is actually ridden, I don't care what it's intended
    purpose is, Sure many a MTB never sees a trail or gets off pavement
    but if the owner uses it who am I to criticize? I just try to point out
    they might be better served with a road bike.
    Glad to hear that you are coming out of the doldrums, and that
    you are finding your way back to the cycling community.
    I think you'll find that alot of us older riders do remember you,
    and the frames/bikes you built.
    So, my next question is, do you have any plans to ease your
    way back into framebuilding again? (we can only hope!).

    anyhow, hope you stick around, its always nice to get
    a different perspective on things, especially when the author
    knows what he/she is talking about.

    Marty
    Thanks Marty,

    It is good to get a roadie into this. Not that I ever intended to start a roadie verses MTB rider thing. I agree with you; the main thing is you’re all riding a bikes.

    This is not the first time my mouth, or in this case a comment on a forum has got me into trouble. I lost many a customer because I wouldn’t bend to their way of thinking. I would always say, “I respect your ideas, but just get someone else to build it.”

    This was the problem I had with the mountain bikes. I built my first one in 1985; it had a 73 degree head angle and I had to lie and tell people it was 72 degrees because everyone was building MTBs with 69 degree head angles at that time. Which might be great for barreling down a mountain side, but the bike will handle like a wheel-barrow in every other situation.

    I rode cyclo-cross for many years in England before I came to America, so I did know something about riding in the dirt. I believed, and still do that a mountain bike does not need fat tires. This is just an opinion, and opinions are like belly-buttons; everybody has one, but when an opinion is based on a lot of experience. (Well I’d better stop before I dig myself another hole.)

    I could have carried on building MTBs and it would have been good business practice to do so, but as an artist; to do something I didn’t believe in would be to sell my soul to make a buck. There is a thing called artistic integrity; I believe I have it.

    As for getting back into frame building; I have neither the money to invest nor the inclination. The same rush I used to get from looking at a frame I had created, I now get from my writing. With bike frames I sold them and they were gone, with my book I get to sell it over and over again, and the great thing is after I’ve sold it, at the end of the day it’s still mine. (Copyright is a wonderful thing.)

    The other thing is Russ Denny who was my apprentice for eight years before taking over my business in 1993 is doing a fine job and can do everything I could do. In some aspects, filet brazing for example he was better than me. You can find Russ at: http://www.russdennybicycles.com/

  23. #23
    ex frame builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnet1
    If you want some really wild (and beautiful) frames go look at some of the 'bents. You have curved monotubes, stretched triangular, A mix of curved and straight, square tubes, round tubes, and everything in between.

    'bent Brian
    Are you talking about recumbants? Don't even get me started on that!

  24. #24
    Senior Member
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    I see beauty in all kinds of bikes, not just for their physical attributes, but more so for what they symbolize. I grew up on various single, 3, and 10 speed bikes and then fell in love with BMX riding and racing. Naturally that evolved into a passion for mountain biking. I have fond memories of my BMX bikes. I currently have a Cove Handjob (an elegant, agile mountain hardtail) and a Surly Crosscheck (my "do it all" roady). Both are "form follows function" machines and neither is interchangable with the other-they're purpose built. I spend more time on my "road" bike as I commute daily, however, my passion is off road. My mountain bike takes me to places that my road bike can only dream of. Places that I love, like the woods, where I can breath cleaner air and see things like: trees, dirt, streams, and sometimes wildlife. That's what I really love about it, I always feel like a kid riding through streams, over log jams, bunny hopping things, and blasting down a hill with my wheels slipping and sliding in loose soil-or, especially, getting airborn off of a job or drop. I just don't have as much fun on any other type of bike. While I might prefer certain types of riding over others, I'd be loath to criticize someone's choice of bicycle so long as they're doing what they love and getting excercise. I know the whole "roadie/mtber" debate, those who love dirt and those who love pavement. Having experience with both disciplines, I'll tell you one thing, I feel that mountain biking is much more physically challenging and requires more skill than road riding. A good mountain rider earns more of my respect than "roady" anyday. While I might cringe at someone riding a heavy, clumsy mountain bike for longer road rides, I'm just glad they're riding at all at do my best to encourage them.
    die trying

    everyone likes my shirt

  25. #25
    'Bent Brian
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    OOOPS! Sorry if I touched a sore spot be mentioning 'bents (i.e.recumbents). It is just that when looking for my new bike (a recumbent) I was amazed at all of the frame geometries, configurations, construction, etc, and some were in my humble opinion, works of art. All bikes are unique in one way or another and each has its purpose. In each type you can find "beauties" and "beasts". I figure beauty in in the eye of the beholder. I was a former "roadie". I now ride a 'bent. Each to whatever works for him.

    'bent Brian

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