mr,grumpy 

I never heard of it before I started reading these forums and, frankly, I just don't get it. Today, I actually SAW cyclocross in action and I get it even less! Why are these guys NOT using mountain bikes since it is an off-road course? Is a cross bike nothing more than a road bike with kind of knobbie tires or a mountain bike with big wheels and dropped bars? What advantage come from having dropped bars in an off-road setting? Why would a sport get developed wheer you would have to carry the bike instead of ride it? Why, again, aren't these races run on MTBs?

tsl

Because MTBs weren't invented until 80 years or so after they invented cyclocross. It dates from the early 20th century in Europe, and carries on in that tradition.

mr,grumpy 

Wow! I thought that it was the NEW thing! LOL!!!! I guess NOT!

Jeff Wills

Sigh...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclo-c...ns_and_history

knobster

Cyclocross tracks are designed for a mixture of surfaces and while a MTB might work on one of those surfaces, they would be at a disadvantage on the others. This is where a cyclocross bike would be an advantage. Two equally matched riders where one was on a MTB and one was on a cross bike, the MTB rider would be on the losing battle of that race.

edit to add: maybe if you'd participate in one of these races you'd fully understand what it's all about. It's about having fun!

mr,grumpy 

don't have twelve hundred bucks for a new bike.

knobster

Nor do you need it. I see them on craigslist all the time from $400-$whatever. But you could easily use a MTB and have just as much fun. Wouldn't be as competitive, but it's a good way to start racing.

knobster

Back in the day, road racers would take their road bikes and put cross tires on them and do cyclocross during the Winter to keep in shape. Bikes were built a little different back then and could fit larger tires. You'd never do that with today's modern wonders.

sd_mike

I've raced cyclocross, I found it to be amusing at times. I'm in a bicycle race, yet I'm RUNNING. Not running, RUNNING WITH MY BIKE! Like a triathalon? No, they leave their bikes. The history was explained in the beginners clinic. 1908. It was fun, that much was certain. The thing is, if you go for a long and varied route with a cyclocross bike, you'll end up doing everything you would in a race, just without the race. There are barriers (physical and artificial), "run ups", sharp curves, varied terrain. The easiest explanation is it is an odd race that doesn't make much sense outside of the race. The advantage of a cyclocross bike can easily be seen though. I rode a century today, mixed singletrack and road. Ran on both fairly well. Do that with a road bike, or mountain bike.

kjmillig

Here ya go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWGnM_1ViZA

Fern53

Good grief! I'll wait here...

mawtangent

I don't know much about cyclocross/cyclocross racing, but it seems the equipment and skills might be useful in "real" situations. When I was a kid I'd walk into the mountains (extreme Southwest Virginia, U.S.A.). I never dreamed of trying to bring/ride my bike in "virgin" forest. There were trees of varying age/thickness every few feet, with rocks and holes camaflaged by layers of dieing leaves. There were also great variations in incline as one climbed. If climbing to the top of a mountain it would seem one would be pushing/carrying the bike a lot. On the otherhand if decending, or traveling on leveler spots along a constant altitude, there might be some hope of making good time on a bike (with a lot of adventureouts twists and turns). I still don't think I will ever try to take a bike into "untamed" mountains (I assume even most mountain bikers use trails of some kind), but I would probably try it if someone invited me. I assume it might be really exhausting and the bike might be more of a hinderence than a help, but it might be fun.

mr,grumpy 

What about an old Raleigh Marathon or even older peugeot with knobbie tires? Wouldn't the bike break? I'm still not sure why the MTB would be at a disadvantage.

Jay D

I'm in this same boat. Prompted by this thread, I checked out a few cyclocross videos online to see what it was all about. From what I can see, the majority of the riding is off road and I don't see what the advantage having drop bars would be for this. I would think a MTB would be able to perform these functions better.

knobster

There are several reasons. One is they are usually quite a bit heavier. This matters a lot when you need to carry your bike over barricades or up run ups. The frames are narrow which makes shouldering them almost impossible. Yes you could ride up these hills since you have much lower gearing, BUT if you tried, you'd be passed by everyone in the field. On the grass and pavement sections, you'd be at a huge disadvantage as the drop bar skinny tire cross bike is going to be much faster. The only advantage I can see where a MTB would have is over rough terrain. The very nature of cross racing is the varied terrain. Each race venue is also different, so the one race you've seen is going to be different the next venue or even the next race at the same venue. This is what makes a cross bike much better for the situation. It was built for this. MTB was built for single track. Road bikes were built for pavement. Each can do what the other can do, but not very well. You could take a road or cross bike on single track. It would suck. You could take a MTB on pavement, but it would suck. You could take a cross bike on the road. It wouldn't suck and would do quite well, but a road bike is a better tool. Just like a MTB is the proper tool for off road. You could race a MTB in a cross race just fine, but it's not the best tool for the job.

You could do what you're talking about with the older bikes and it would do ok on dry conditions. The biggest issue is where you encounter mud. Cross bikes have a lot of clearance for mud and also the proper brakes for mud clearance. These road bikes don't and in a muddy situation, it could be a deal breaker. Would work ok in dry. Again, weight matters in cross.

stapfam

I used to do a mountain bike race that was in a cyclocross meeting. They ran a separate race for MTB's to boost the race card. As a mountain bike race the course was docile but we all enjoyed ourselves. No major hills- a few obstacles that had to be negotiated like 12" logs across the track that the Cyclo boys used to get off and lift the bike over. The more skilled Mountain bikers just used to bunny hop the logs. There was nowhere that you had to get off a mountain bike at any part of the course.

But the difference was showing up in the lap times. Those cyclocross boys were fast. I still could not see the interest in riding a road bike over a muddy course till the Second MTB race. We had the juniors on cyclocross racing with us as there were not many MTB's and not many juniors. They may have been fit- they may have been young but we had the right bikes for the course. Those Juniors creamed us.

Thank goodness they did not put us out with experienced cyclocrossers.

knobster

Yeah, most videos aren't going to show the other surfaces because it simply isn't that much fun to watch. Remember, sites like youtube has a restricted limit on video size. Drop bars has an advantage on doing things like off camber descents. Not as good on a MTB because you wouldn't be able to negotiate the twists and turns as well as you could with flat bars. They work great on straight descents though. Plus there is a good length of road portions in cross racing. Depending on the course. This is where drop bars also helps.

Sixty Fiver

There are still quite a few of enthusiastic folks who off road with drop bars so these do not limit where you can go although the set up and specific bars used are a little different.

Early cross racers used road bikes but preferred touring bikes because of their increased clearance and more robust frames and now cyclocross has evolved to a point where bikes are specifically designed for this. On the flip side... many people opt to use cross bikes as commuters and tourers because of their excellent ability to do everything.

I know guys here who ride cross bikes on challenging single track, do some serious drops and don't really give up much to the guys riding mtb's and when it comes to riding on smooth sections the cyclocross bike is superior.

Jeff Wills

OK, you can watch these guys:

tatfiend 

Earlier this year I bought a early 70s Peugeot PX10 that had been converted (poorly) to a cyclocrosser. The BB had no protective sleeve so had been wiped out by dirt that got inside. The headset was unsafe due to being cobbled together from a combination of French and ISO parts and someone had brazed on canti mounts.

A conversion of an older road bike for cyclocross can be done but it requires lots of maintenance or changing to dirt resistant parts if it is going to survive. No visible frame or fork damage though from it's cyclocross use.

BarracksSi

Helmet cam from a DCCX, a local cyclocross back in October:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcfqNqClKPc

It just ain't gonna be Leadville -- the terrain isn't extreme enough. A mountain bike would be more of a hindrance than a benefit like stapfam found.

coldfeet

Umm... Speedos, Wellies, and a BMX?

Please do tell, what's the story there?

njkayaker

A mountain bike might "function better". The point of the race isn't necessarily to use the "best functioning" equipment. In cyclocross, the interest is in making the race challenging (not easy).

And, ideally, everybody should be using the same, exact equipment.

stapfam

May have been the same in the US- but up to a few years ago- There were regs that stipulated that you had to use 700c wheels and drop bars in Cyclocross in the UK. Then it was relaxed so you could use 26" wheels and flat bars. So basically you could use a rigid MTB in Cyclocross. It did lead to a few changes in the bikes- but within a few years- everyone one was using bikes that Conformed to the old regs. They worked better.

njkayaker

Interesting. (Personally, I don't know which would be better.) I don't think that we are contradicting each other.

Regardless, the purpose of the such regs (in any sport) is to make sure that people use equipment that is basically the same. That is, the idea is that the race results are distinguished by the ability of the athletes, not by differences in the equipment. That there might be better equipment/technology out there is kind of moot unless everybody uses it.