Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 54
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Did the store lie about where my bike was made?

    I just brought home a new Devinci Stockholm, which is an entry level performance hybrid. I bought it because the bike store said it was Made in Canada (both the owner and another employee, on two separate occasions said this). Normally I don't let country of origin decide what I buy, but in this case I equally liked the Devinci and another bike from a different store, so I decided to support a company that manufactures in my own country and got the Devinci.

    When I got home, I looked underneath the cranks to read the serial number and I found a sticker beside it that said "Made in Vietnam", which is disappointing.

    What I am wondering about is whether the bike store actually lied to me or if they didn't know either. The bike store writes down the serial number on their invoices, so someone in the store had to have seen the "Made in Vietnam" sticker. And since they are a Devinci dealer, they must have seen it on other Devinci's, unless mine is the first "Made in Vietnam" unit to pass through. Both the owner and an employee told me that it was Made in Canada, on two different days.

    So either the store lied, they didn't know, or that sticker is wrong. Unfortunately I can't find any "Made in Canada" markings on the bike.

    Not sure what I should do about it. Go back to the store and ask them why they said what they said? I don't know what that will accomplish, I still like the bike, I just feel a bit deceived. Should I call Devinci and ask them when they started making bikes in Vietnam instead of Canada?

    Note that I am not in any way implying anything about the quality of products made in other countries; I just based this particular purchasing decision on the country of origin because I couldn't decide any other way.

  2. #2
    just pokin' along desertdork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    1,042
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    With the exception of mostly custom frames and high-end frames, most frames today seem to come from a few factories in Taiwan and China. I've also seen some from India, so Vietnam doesn't really surprise me. My understanding is that the facilities in Taiwan and China have been producing pretty high quality frames from aluminum and carbon fiber, respectively, for several years now. I don't know anything about the general quality coming out of India or, in your case, Vietnam.

    I believe Rocky Mountain and Marioni may fabricate frames in your country, but it's hard to say if that would include hybrids (due to their generally lower price point). Regardless, if it's bugging you, ask the shop owner to explain himself. Maybe he's never seen the big "Made in Vietnam" stamp on the boxes, he's out of the loop, or he knew you were using country of origin as the deciding factor and just wanted to sell a bike.

  3. #3
    Senior Member MrCjolsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Davis CA
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
    Posts
    3,954
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My frame was made in Taiwan. But the bike was built in my garage.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    2010 Kona Dr. Dew, Yuba Mundo V3, 2009 Diamondback Kalamar
    Posts
    798
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's possible the frame was fabricated in Vietnam (and most of the other parts were fabricated in China, Japan, Taiwan, etc.), but it was assembled in Canada.

  5. #5
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dallas area, Texas
    Posts
    10,514
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    From what I've read, some of the US companies started producing in the US, still make some high-end frames here, and have gradually shifted regular bikes to overseas production. I expect something like this has gone on at Devinci as well.

    I don't see anything on their website that says where they are produced. I do find a statement in their history that "The reputation of Devinci bikes was spread by word of mouth, by cyclists who were satisfied and proud to own a Canadian-made bike.", which certainly leaves the impression that they build bikes there.


    I would guess that the bike shop guys were just assuming where these were made and hadn't really paid attention. As to what to do about, I don't know.

    There have also been issues in the past where a frame would be made in, say, Turkey, then the bike would be painted, assembled and all in, say, the Netherlands. If enough work was done in the assembly place, the bike would still be marked as made there, rather than Turkey. But the issue in that case wasn't what the bike shop guys said, it was an issue of how the bikes were labeled.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  6. #6
    Dead Men Assume...
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    My Bikes
    Bike Friday NWT
    Posts
    852
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Devinci is actually a company that originated in Quebec and that is probably why the store thought that its products were Canadian. I'd second desertdork's post.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alberta,Canada.
    Posts
    800
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Actually they do make alot of their own frames in Quebec. The high end tricked out ones, MTB's are there forte. The one you have is assembled in Quebec. Frame could be made anywhere. Unfortunately with our laws all they have to do is meet certain federal requirements and they can say made in Canada. Check the food store shelves and you will see same misleading stuff everyday. I met their young rep. last year at a LBS i frequent. Very nice folks and definitely pro Canadian.
    There web site used to show the workings of there shop,equipment and all. They are very well equipped.
    Last edited by ddez; 05-08-10 at 06:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Has opinion, will express
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    12,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Go back and find out exactly what is going on with the shop. Get the staff to explain themselves. There is a major misrepresentation here and someone is profiting from it...
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Loose Chain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    USA
    My Bikes
    84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 86 Centurion Ironman, 88 Centurion Prestige
    Posts
    1,177
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They are just ignorant.

  10. #10
    Senior Member KungPaoSchwinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ms/Ca, USA,Earth.
    My Bikes
    2009 Trek FX 7.3 ( pimp moment )
    Posts
    705
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would say just get over it,time will heal your frustration, riding your new bike can accomplish that too.My bike was made in China and i don't really mind bcz if it was truely made in the USA, i would have to pay a lot more, just ride the new bike and enjoy it.
    2009 Trek FX 7.3

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Rochester MN
    My Bikes
    Schwinn World Traveler, Raleigh Port Townsend, Bianci Roadmaster, Raleigh Clubman
    Posts
    775
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Let's make some assumptions. The frame is made in Vietnam. Now lets imagine the brakes and shifters were made in Japan, the cables and handlebar in China, and other components somewhere else. Now everything is shipped to Canada and assembled there. Where was the bike made? That's what you run into today when you try to determine the country where something is made.
    We have met the enemy and they is us.

    Pogo

  12. #12
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    My Bikes
    2 many
    Posts
    13,652
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by steve0257 View Post
    Let's make some assumptions. The frame is made in Vietnam. Now lets imagine the brakes and shifters were made in Japan, the cables and handlebar in China, and other components somewhere else. Now everything is shipped to Canada and assembled there. Where was the bike made? That's what you run into today when you try to determine the country where something is made.
    Exactly, and you can't get around it anymore.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think everyone has made good points. I'm not upset that the frame isn't Made in Canada, though. I'm just disappointed because that's what I expected and made my final decision upon and I don't know if I've been duped. For what it's worth, I had a Norco from 3 years ago that was cheaper and said "Made in Canada", but from what you guys are telling me about how that could simply mean assembly instead of fabrication, maybe it didn't mean anything either. For the Norco I didn't choose it based on where it was made, I was looking for a low cost bike to replace my aging Walmart special.

    I guess the real question is whether I should give the store the benefit of the doubt. When I went there the staff were helpful and patient with all my questions and they have a good selection of stuff that I would like to buy. But they made it a selling point that the bike was manufactured here and I didn't doubt them. So if they were in any way being intentionally dishonest, then I have to go to another store.

    There is another LBS I normally go to but I didn't like any of the bikes there (which is why I expanded my search to all the others in the area). The staff aren't as patient with questions and their selection isn't as good but they haven't said anything that wasn't true either. Still, I usually always go back to the same store where I bought the bike for everything related to that bike, so I don't know if I should break that habit this time.
    Last edited by 1138; 05-08-10 at 07:29 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    160
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Steve0257 has the best point(s). Manufactures in USA and Canada import their components. Read up on Country of Origin rules. For USA, it is value that determines that and usually the frame dictates that. Someone mention profiting by this, everyone is. Manufactures produce cheaper, you get bikes cheaper and the LBS gets business. Look in the end you supported a Canadian company which be similar to me if I purchased a Trek or Specialized bike. I think Trek and Cannondale are the only manufactures still making frames in the USA for their very high end frames. My Specialized bikes are all imported.

  15. #15
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dallas area, Texas
    Posts
    10,514
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, the rules can be written to allow manufacture to be claimed in different ways, but the bike shop guys should be telling you the same thing the sticker does. They certainly don't know more about import laws than the manufacturer does. They were either ignorant, or intentionally misled you. I would guess the former.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    763
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 1138 View Post
    I'm not upset that the frame isn't Made in Canada, though. I'm just disappointed because that's what I expected and made my final decision upon and I don't know if I've been duped.

    What exactly do you want them to do about the misrepresentation?

    - Mark

  17. #17
    Senior Member trustnoone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Edmonton AB
    My Bikes
    2011 Colnago World Cup, 2012 Eddy Merckx AMX-2
    Posts
    517
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would assume by the owners/sales person that the bike is assembled in Canada. Did they mislead you? Maybe depending on where you draw the ethical lines. Almost everything is made in Asia these days, and unless a customer can afford a frame in the $2,000+ range we all benefit from it. I would have loved to have bought a Canadian frame, and still may one day. I would believe a sales rep might not know where their frames are built if it was their first week on the job but I doubt there is a shop owner anywhere that doesn’t know that the vast majority of frames are made in Asia, and have been for most of their adult lives.

    These are some builders I found who still weld or lay-up their frames in Canada:

    Guru
    Naked Bicycle Designs
    True North

    Dekerf
    Cove Bikes
    Broadie (only one or two of the top line steel frames)


    Rocky Mountain never answered my question so I don't know. If they do, it's only their top end frames as well. For what it's worth they were bought by an Asian company some years back.

    Marinoni use an exclusive frame builder in Asia (Taiwan I believe) for their carbon. I'm not sure about their other materials.

    This is probably not an exhaustive list of Canadian builders, but aside from the few Guru dealers you won't find many of these frames in your LBS. So if you're in a LBS and you are wondering if the frame is imported and they are not obviously welding in the back room, you can safely assume it's imported from somewhere and if the frame isn't dripping euro parts and the bike costs less than $6,000 that somewhere is asia.

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
    What exactly do you want them to do about the misrepresentation?
    Nothing. It's just that if they were lying to me, then I'd feel stupid for falling for it. Anyway, if I have issues with my bike I need to take it back to that store, so I don't want to sour the relationship just yet.

    I would have preferred the store to be upfront that "Made in Canada" means assembled here. I still would have gotten the bike and I would have bought more things from them. Now, I am less likely to buy from them again and more likely to tell others not to go there.

    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    I would assume by the owners/sales person that the bike is assembled in Canada. Did they mislead you? Maybe depending on where you draw the ethical lines. Almost everything is made in Asia these days, and unless a customer can afford a frame in the $2,000+ range we all benefit from it. I would have loved to have bought a Canadian frame, and still may one day. I would believe a sales rep might not know where their frames are built if it was their first week on the job but I doubt there is a shop owner anywhere that doesn’t know that the vast majority of frames are made in Asia, and have been for most of their adult lives.
    Well, the sales rep said that the bike is made by a Canadian company and was actually Made in Canada. When I talked to the owner the next day, he said the same thing. They didn't distinguish between assembly and fabrication. I've never had another bike store list "Canadian-made" as a feature before, even for Canadian brands like Brodie and Norco. Like I said before, my 3 year old Norco actually was stamped "Made in Canada", while the Brodies I looked at recently and this Devinci don't.

    So what you're saying is that unless the frame is worth more than $2000 that they aren't fabricated in Canada? That's good to know in case any one else tries to pass something off as being fabricated here.

    I suppose if the bike is assembled here then at least part of the manufacturing process is supporting the Canadian economy. I'm not against globalization but I do think that it would be nice to buy stuff made in your own country.
    Last edited by 1138; 05-09-10 at 12:05 AM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member rdl456's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Corpus Christi TX
    My Bikes
    Ridley Boreas
    Posts
    113
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It would be nice but I don't think you should feel taken or anything like that. When I bought my Ridley frame, I knew it wasn't fabricated in Belgium. It's just they way things are done these days. I would say there is a little bit of deception in order to be competitive in the bicycle market. Not too many bicycle companies are eager to slap "Made in India" stickers on their frames if their competitor isn't doing it. If you really want something Made in Canada than you'd probably have to go custom or really top of the line. It's gonna cost you though.

  20. #20
    Blocking your fire exits coffeecake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    sa-saska-what
    My Bikes
    Xtracycle conversion, RM Sherpa 30, Opus Mondano, Omega mixte, Norco Sasquatch (early 80's)
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by desertdork View Post

    I believe Rocky Mountain and Marioni may fabricate frames in your country, but it's hard to say if that would include hybrids (due to their generally lower price point).
    Rocky Mountain no longer fabricates frames in Canada (according to local LBS). I've got an '08 Sherpa, and it's the last year it was made here. There are some smaller companies that still make frames here - Steelwool makes some nice ones (they have a touring frame and fork for about $700). It is really cool to have a domestic frame, but I don't fool myself - the components are not similarly made here.

    I have an Opus, it's advertised as a Canadian brand, but the LBS didn't hide the fact that "Made in Canada" really means "Assembled in Canada from all over." For $600, I was not surprised.
    Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
    ~ Oscar Wilde

  21. #21
    Senior Member coldfeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,118
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
    There are some smaller companies that still make frames here - Steelwool makes some nice ones (they have a touring frame and fork for about $700).
    Regrettably, the $700 frame is made in Taiwan according to their FAQ. Only the custom frames are made here, wonder how much they are?

  22. #22
    Blocking your fire exits coffeecake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    sa-saska-what
    My Bikes
    Xtracycle conversion, RM Sherpa 30, Opus Mondano, Omega mixte, Norco Sasquatch (early 80's)
    Posts
    641
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by coldfeet View Post
    Regrettably, the $700 frame is made in Taiwan according to their FAQ. Only the custom frames are made here, wonder how much they are?
    Augh, didn't do my homework and got burned. I was wondering why $700 seemed too good to be true for a Canadian frame.

    I imagine you know whether you can afford it or not just by the fact that the price isn't listed. Like the super-upscale hotels.
    Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
    ~ Oscar Wilde

  23. #23
    Senior Member cyclist2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Up
    My Bikes
    Masi (retired), Giant TCR, Eisentraut, Jamis Aurora Elite, Zullo (trainer bike), Cannondale, Stumpjumper, Waterford(N+1), Tern D8 (N+1)
    Posts
    2,779
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 1138 View Post
    Now, I am less likely to buy from them again and more likely to tell others not to go there.
    You will stop going to a LBS that has better service, friendly people and treat you with respect and go to a shop that the staff isn't patient and don't have a good selection?

    Service is my highest priority. I have a LBS that is closer to my house and I personally know the owner for over 20 years but the mechanic won't talk to me even if I ask him a direct question. I will not have any service done at that shop, and I don't visit that shop very often since there are other shops that want my business.

    I think that they probably assumed Canadian company so Canadian product.

    Its like here, I have some friends that always got on my case because I didn't own american cars. Where are these cars made? All over the world but who gets the big profit the dealer and the car company. Most of the money stays here and all of the service money stays here.

    Same with your bike, who make the big profit the dealer and the Canadian company. Where will all the service be done? at home or Canada, probably.

    If you are trying to keep canadians employed, I doubt that any of the components are made there either. But they may be assembling them there.
    I don't do vintage, I bought them new, rode them, kept them. Now they are just old bikes
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bustercrb/sets/72157623483647522/

  24. #24
    Senior Member cyclist2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Up
    My Bikes
    Masi (retired), Giant TCR, Eisentraut, Jamis Aurora Elite, Zullo (trainer bike), Cannondale, Stumpjumper, Waterford(N+1), Tern D8 (N+1)
    Posts
    2,779
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 1138 View Post
    Now, I am less likely to buy from them again and more likely to tell others not to go there.
    You will stop going to a LBS that has better service, friendly people and treat you with respect and go to a shop that the staff isn't patient and don't have a good selection?

    Service is my highest priority. I have a LBS that is closer to my house and I personally know the owner for over 20 years but the mechanic won't talk to me even if I ask him a direct question. I will not have any service done at that shop, and I don't visit that shop very often since there are other shops that want my business.

    I think that they probably assumed Canadian company so Canadian product.

    Here I have some friends that always got on my case because I didn't own american cars. Where are these cars made? All over the world but who gets the big profit the dealer and the car company. Most of the money stays here and all of the service money stays here.

    Same with your bike, who make the big profit the dealer and the Canadian company. Where will all the service be done? at home or Canada, probably.

    If you are trying to keep canadians employed, I doubt that any of the components are made there either. But they may be assembling them there.
    I don't do vintage, I bought them new, rode them, kept them. Now they are just old bikes
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bustercrb/sets/72157623483647522/

  25. #25
    Pro Paper Plane Pilot wunderkind's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,624
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wal Mart has some Oryx bikes that is MADE in USA. You want those? It weighs a ton and still uses quill stems.

    Do you have a prejudice against Asian manufacturers? Vote with your wallet. Fact of the matter is, unless you can shell out $5000 for a Trek Madone, you are gonna get a frame made from asia. Like others have said, Taiwan and China has been fabricating frames for so long that their techniques are very advanced.

    Do you drive a Chevy?
    Vancouver Modern Portrait Photography

    Zenfolio.com membership discount code: UBV-HJY-SCY

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •