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  1. #1
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Wheel Swap Question

    First let me clarify that I am a newbie. With that said, here are my questions.

    I have a 1985 Raleigh Competition I aquired a little while ago. Everything checked out fine when I took it to the LBS to be checked out except the rear wheel. The rear wheel is untrue, and the LBS told me that did all they could do and still couldn't get it to be true, I would need another wheel. I can feel it when I ride too.

    The other day I picked up a pair of used wheels. Even before I purchased them, the seller took off my rear wheel, and put his on, and spun it to show the trueness.

    Okay, moving on, looking at the just purchased wheels, the hubs don't look as good as the ones on my bike. Now, they may be better I don't know, but they don't look as good. Is there anyway, I can take the hubs on the orginal wheels and put on the set of wheels I just purchased? Or would it be cost prohibited to even try that?

    I will post pictures of my original wheels and hubs, and the newly aquired wheels and hubs.

    Thanks in advance,

  2. #2
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Yup, it'll probably work. The key is if both wheelsets have the same number of spokes. Lots of times hubset dimensions don't vary by much so there's a good chance that even the spokes might be reusable.

    Now here's the downside: if you have to pay somebody else to do the work it probably won't be cost effective.

  3. #3
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Yup, it'll probably work. The key is if both wheelsets have the same number of spokes. Lots of times hubset dimensions don't vary by much so there's a good chance that even the spokes might be reusable.
    What if the new rims ar 30 mm Deep V type and the old rims 22mm (?) tall like an Open Pro? I'd think the spokes would be very different, no?

    To the OP, why did you buy the used wheels if you didn't like them?

    You could have paid the shop to build your current hub with a new rim and new spokes for about the same price you paid for the used wheels. Depending on how much you paid, I've paid $100 for a shop to rebuild my wheel (new rim and spokes)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    What if the new rims ar 30 mm Deep V type and the old rims 22mm (?) tall like an Open Pro? I'd think the spokes would be very different, no?
    Use the spokes that came with the new rims?

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Use the spokes that came with the new rims?
    Doh!....OK, got me on that one!

  6. #6
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    What if the new rims ar 30 mm Deep V type and the old rims 22mm (?) tall like an Open Pro? I'd think the spokes would be very different, no?

    To the OP, why did you buy the used wheels if you didn't like them?
    Very good question. Didn't say I didn't like them, it is just that after I purchased them, the hubs didn't look as good as mine.l


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    You could have paid the shop to build your current hub with a new rim and new spokes for about the same price you paid for the used wheels. Depending on how much you paid, I've paid $100 for a shop to rebuild my wheel (new rim and spokes)
    You are right on! I think I clarified myself as a newbie going. And it looks like what you suggested in getting the old wheel rebuilt might be the way I will eventually be going. This is all a big learning curve for me. I paid $130 for the set of used wheels/hubs. Now, I don't know " 30 mm Deep V type and the old rims 22mm (?) tall like an Open Pro" if you smack me with it right in the head! So, when I post the pictures(this evening), and the feedback I get is that the wheels I purchased are DIFFERENT/SUB-STANDARD/NOT THE RIGHT KIND, I will just eat the $130 and go to the LBS and asked them how much to rebuild the rear wheel, with a matching rim to the front.

    Last week I made two purchases, a bike at a apartment moving sale, and the wheels off of craiglist. The bike will be the subject of another thread. From the feedback I am getting it seems I made the wrong choice here. No matter, part of the learning curve.

    Thanks BIG TIME for the feedback, I think this puts me on the right track.

  7. #7
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Use the spokes that came with the new rims?
    I think that would be the "happy ending" if that could work out. If the old hubs have the same amount of holes, I could get those hubs put on the newer wheels, that is if it is not cost-prohibitive.

    When I post the pictures this evening, that way you all can tell me if a switch would work, throw the new wheels in the trash can they are junk, or I got a good deal, etc.

  8. #8
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cehowardGS View Post
    Now, I don't know " 30 mm Deep V type and the old rims 22mm (?) tall like an Open Pro" if you smack me with it right in the head!
    20 mm (?) on top and 30 mm on the bottom. You can see that the top rim is shallow by the purple lines. The bottom one is deeper rim 30mm rim.

    If I had gotten the pics to exact scale to one another, the silver part (braking track) would have been about the same size, then you 'd see exaclty how much deeper the 30 mm rim is compared to the 20MM(?)

    The taller rim requires shorter spokes (less distance to the center hub) where as the shallow rim requires longer spokes (longer distance to the center). That's what I was talking about but like Grouch said, use the spokes from the new wheel.



    The 30 MM rims are what I use cause I am a heavy rider and they are known to be stronger rims depending on how well the builder builds the wheel. The shallow rims work fine for my wife as she's lighter than I am.

    Although some riders will argue, I use 30 mm rims for durability but they are heavier so if you are concerened about setting landspeed records........

    I myself get over 20,000 miles out of a 30 mm REAR wheel where as a 20 mm rear wheel will not last more than 3000 miles in my case and my experience under my 230 lb body.

    But I do build my own wheels after several failed attempts at the shop.

  9. #9
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    If you can read any labels on the inside of the hub, someone mght be able to comment on the hubs (eg Ultegra/105/ 600/ /American/ RSX)????

  10. #10
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Here are the pictures of the wheels I purchased, and the bike that I want to switch the rear wheel. From what I been reading put the wheels together, I can see right now, the used wheels I purchased have LESS spokes than the wheel already on the bike. I think I made a bad deal..

    Pics of the used wheelset.





    here it used rear wheel up against the wheel I want to replace. As you can see the used wheel has less spokes.



    the two front wheels.



    I do know this now, the stock wheels are araya, and the used wheels are Shimano,


  11. #11
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Another pic


  12. #12
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    From the pictures, and looking further at the wheels, they do not have the same amount of spokes. Even a newbie like me knows that I can't switch hubs. The question now is, are the new wheels better than the stock ones, hubs too?

    If so, then I will switch tires and put on the used set, along with the cassesette. If not, I will just will eat the $130 bucks I paid for the used wheels set and get the rear wheel rebuilt with the existing hub.

  13. #13
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    What does the red label say (on the hub)?

    Now that you're stuck with the used set, use it AND have the other rebuilt at your convenience. It's never a bad thing to have a backup wheel. You never know when a spoke may break on either set. If the old hub is rebuilt by a good builder and decent rim, it may last forever.

    If the old hub is a good hub, heck you can have it repacked with new bearings and grease for about $20. That would make it nearly good as new!

    It's not really a bad deal because some will say that the wheel with fewer spokes are faster.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cehowardGS View Post
    Here are the pictures of the wheels I purchased, and the bike that I want to switch the rear wheel. From what I been reading put the wheels together, I can see right now, the used wheels I purchased have LESS spokes than the wheel already on the bike. I think I made a bad deal..
    There are a LOT of differences between your two back wheels.

    The key one is the "over locknut dimension". Your new wheel is a little wider than your existing wheel. To make it fit you have to choose between force fitting it everytime that you reinstall the wheel and permanently bending your rear triangle so that it will fit.

    Your existing rear cogs aren't going to fit on the new rear wheel. At the very least you are going to have to buy a cassette and a spacer.

    The new hub is a superior design to what you have now. The main advantage is that it is going to be much less prone to bending the rear axle.

    Relaceing a new rim onto your existing rear hub is certainly possible but, if you are going to pay somebody to do it for you, it probably won't cost out very well. Bike shop prices vary - sometimes by a lot for this kind of work. I'm thinking typical prices would be: rim - $50.00, spokes - $32.00, labor to overhaul hub - $25.00, labor to lace wheel - $60.00. That's $167 just for the rear wheel.

    If it was my bike I think that I'd try to flip the Shimano wheelset (frankly, it's going to look a little funky on your otherwise classic bike anyway) and look for another rear wheel that will fit your bike. I'm sure that your local bike shop will be able to hook you up for under $100.00.

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    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    What does the red label say (on the hub)?

    Now that you're stuck with the used set, use it AND have the other rebuilt at your convenience. It's never a bad thing to have a backup wheel. You never know when a spoke may break on either set. If the old hub is rebuilt by a good builder and decent rim, it may last forever.

    If the old hub is a good hub, heck you can have it repacked with new bearings and grease for about $20. That would make it nearly good as new!

    It's not really a bad deal because some will say that the wheel with fewer spokes are faster.
    Again, from a newbie's standpoint. On the original wheels, the hubs have SEAL BEARINGS. The 1985 Raleigh Competition came with seal bearings.. Good or Bad? I dunno!

    Right now, I am just trying to find out if I bought junk, or good stuff, but can't use it..

  16. #16
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    There are a LOT of differences between your two back wheels.

    The key one is the "over locknut dimension". Your new wheel is a little wider than your existing wheel. To make it fit you have to choose between force fitting it everytime that you reinstall the wheel and permanently bending your rear triangle so that it will fit.

    Your existing rear cogs aren't going to fit on the new rear wheel. At the very least you are going to have to buy a cassette and a spacer.

    The new hub is a superior design to what you have now. The main advantage is that it is going to be much less prone to bending the rear axle.

    Relaceing a new rim onto your existing rear hub is certainly possible but, if you are going to pay somebody to do it for you, it probably won't cost out very well. Bike shop prices vary - sometimes by a lot for this kind of work. I'm thinking typical prices would be: rim - $50.00, spokes - $32.00, labor to overhaul hub - $25.00, labor to lace wheel - $60.00. That's $167 just for the rear wheel.

    If it was my bike I think that I'd try to flip the Shimano wheelset (frankly, it's going to look a little funky on your otherwise classic bike anyway) and look for another rear wheel that will fit your bike. I'm sure that your local bike shop will be able to hook you up for under $100.00.
    Retro, I think you called it correctly. Thanks big time. Also, I learned that the wheelset I purchased is not junk, just a little too advanced for what I have. I would have to make MAJOR modifications to my bike to make them fit. Not acceptable. I will try to flip the wheelset and anything I get out of it, will go toward getting the rear wheel rebuilt.

    Thanks again,

  17. #17
    Senior Member canopus's Avatar
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    What size is your Competition? I could just take that off your hands..
    1984 Cannondale ST
    1985 Cannondale SR300
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    1981 Trek 710
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  18. #18
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canopus View Post
    What size is your Competition? I could just take that off your hands..
    Out my Cold Dead Hands, I tell you that!!

    My 85 Competition



    My 79 Competition



    The peeps around here have turned me into "vintage bike addict", and they did it in short order too. I am now in the process of sneaking bikes and bike stuff in pass the wifee!!

  19. #19
    Senior Member canopus's Avatar
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    Sweet bikes. Yours are a little tall for me. I used to race an '83...
    1984 Cannondale ST
    1985 Cannondale SR300
    1980 Gary Littlejohn Cruiser
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    1981 Trek 710
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  20. #20
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Speaking of old bikes, this is my wife's 84 Binanchi (dude was selling it for $40 to buy a walmart mtb). I gave him 80 as it was all dirty and I had the 80 in my pocket (he was friend).

    I ask about he hubs because the hub on this bike is the original 84 hub. Dude at the shop repacked it then polished off the old ugly satin finish (105 hub). Heck, now the sucker is prettier than the DA hub on one of my bikes.

    I replaced parts on the bike and detailed it (about 10 years ago). Eventhough her newest roadie is full carbon, she won't let this bike go!


  21. #21
    SE Wis dedhed's Avatar
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    You should be able to find a wheel for that. As said you need to remain in the same number of cogs to avoid frame width issues and wheel size (likely 700c) to avoid brake reach issues. Someone who took a similiar raleigh and converted to fixed gear has one right now. I picked up a '85 Grand Prix at a yard sale for $20 which has the same rim/hub so I know they are out there. The sealed bearings on the '85 are really loose ball bearings with a rubber external seal - piece of cake to replace the bearings and have the shop lace a new rim on if you want to go thet route.
    '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400

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