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Old 09-13-04, 10:37 AM   #26
TheRCF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shokhead
How long have you been riding as it does take a bit to get use to. Sometimes thinner pads work better then thicker. Bibs for sure and is your seat level.
Been riding for 2 yrs, 7 months. I have about 15,000 miles in that time. I'm 55 with a bit of a gut that won't go away, though it is much better than it used to be. I think I've stabilized on that.

I do find the pads of the triathlon shorts to be better. Well, SOMETHING is better and I think that is it. Could be the width, but I haven't compared.

Other shorts always feel like I'm trying to put on a diaper or something and the ones that are like cargo shorts with bike shorts inside really feel like a BIG diaper.
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Old 09-13-04, 10:50 AM   #27
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> 1) dump the padded underwear. I'd suggest a good short or bib. <

The thing is, as far as most problems are concerned, the underwear has been the best - but either the material for the pad or the reduced thickness sometimes makes my butt get irritated (probably the material since it does the same to the scrotum where there isn't all that weight pushing on it). And I haven't been able to find good shorts that don't have serious problems. As mentioned before, bibs would be more impractical for my purposes.

> something like a rafting short (from REI, LLBEAN etc.), thin nylon sort of material, pockets
and oh so fashionable worn over the bike specific short will be more comfortable. <

Thanks. I'll look into those for sure.

> my personal thought is the padded underwear bunches, is hot and isn't wicking away
sweat so they get pretty damp. speaking of which, you're not swimming/surfing/etc in
these shorts between rides are you? <

The underwear doesn't seem to bunch, but they do get more damp than regular bike shorts. I think they are supposed to wick moisture away, but they just don't do it as well as the bike short materials I've used. I'm not getting the bike shorts in the water, though the triathlon shorts are for that purpose (but less padding so they dry out faster). Like I said, I'm not one to wear such things in public.

> 2)softer saddles while intuitively a better choice simply are not. you need something
that will support your weight on you sitbones, and not sink, sag or give thus allowing
the soft tissues to now have more contact than before. <

I think I mentioned that I found out - after thousands of miles - that I was really sitting too far forward on the saddle, thus not really on my sit bones. I've made some adjustments and perhaps some of the sore butt stuff with the underwear is from not physically adjusting yet - though that wouldn't explain the same feeling with the scrotum.

> 4) a gel sort of sports cream won't do it. get Chamois Butt'r, Chamois Cream or Bag Balm
(yeah I know its made for cows but it works). check the archives for info on this. <

Oh, okay. I know my usual bike shop doesn't have that, but I'll check others.

Stupid question: When I wear most bike shorts, invariably I find myself trying to periodically readjust things (probably too much because none of the shorts really seem to work for me). Am I the only guy who has a problem where this effort pulls the hair?
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Old 09-13-04, 01:55 PM   #28
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Wanna worry about looking weird, you'll suffer. Getting over looking weird is the price of comfort--that stuff ain't made for how it looks but how it works.
Been looking weird to ride since the President was named Lyndon and the Beatles were still together.
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Old 09-13-04, 03:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by oscaregg
Wanna worry about looking weird, you'll suffer. Getting over looking weird is the price of comfort--that stuff ain't made for how it looks but how it works.
Been looking weird to ride since the President was named Lyndon and the Beatles were still together.
Well, it's me.

But even if it wasn't, it doesn't change the fact that all the shorts I've tried are a problem even when I don't wear anything on top, nor the problem of wanting pockets.

The bike should not control my life.
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Old 09-14-04, 11:52 AM   #30
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RCF,

At one point in time Bulltek sports sold their house brand bibs for about $29.00
no, they won't compete with the high priced stuff, but at that price you can at least
check out if bibs will work for you.

Merton, Bag Balm was developed to treat udders its lanolin based. does the same thing
as chamois creme which is also lanolin based.

Marty
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Old 09-14-04, 07:55 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by lotek
RCF,

At one point in time Bulltek sports sold their house brand bibs for about $29.00
no, they won't compete with the high priced stuff, but at that price you can at least
check out if bibs will work for you.

Merton, Bag Balm was developed to treat udders its lanolin based. does the same thing
as chamois creme which is also lanolin based.

Marty
Well, that's a better price, for sure. I haven't had a chance to get to a bike shop to find bag balm or chamois cream yet. Heck, I haven't ridden in two days and that is unusual. Sure hope it doesn't rain tomorrow. At least my new tires came in today.

Bob
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Old 09-14-04, 08:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by TheRCF
Because:

1. I need pockets. I think in terms of "practical biking", while still wanting to ride far and fast. For example, I have a very nifty cloth beach mat plus a small inflatable raft-like float that I can actually roll up together and fit in a second water bottle cage! This reduces the number of times I need to carry a backpack or use a rear rack (I need the inflatable because just sitting on the sand kills my butt. The raft cushions that). I do carry a fanny pack with my cable lock, some basic tools, and a small bottle of sunscreen. But I still need those pockets.

2. I'm just not the person to wear those bike shorts in public. It just isn't me so that isn't going to change. I have sometimes worn them on a ride down and then slip on regular shorts when I arrive - but I need a backpack to do that.

Hey, I used to wear baggies over my bike shorts, and, as I recall, I was forever pulling my bike short legs down... Now I don't wear the baggies and only occasioally pull them down. Hmmm, I wonder.....

BTW... I also ride with a waist pack. "They" make fun of that too, but not to my face...

Get rid of the baggies, they are silly.
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Old 09-14-04, 08:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Rick O'Getti
Hey, I used to wear baggies over my bike shorts, and, as I recall, I was forever pulling my bike short legs down... Now I don't wear the baggies and only occasioally pull them down. Hmmm, I wonder.....

BTW... I also ride with a waist pack. "They" make fun of that too, but not to my face...

Get rid of the baggies, they are silly.
Remember, I have trouble with the shorts even if I don't wear others on top. But it would help if I find some shorts that really can be compressed into a very small package - and then find a way to carry that package without a backpack!

Most riders I see here (roadies) are plainly riding just to ride. They are not carrying anything with them, other than stuff on the bike (water bottles and a bag for repairs). But I almost never do that. In fact, I probably wouldn't be riding if that was it. I just have to be going someplace - even if I don't actually have to go. Therefore, I ride to Waikiki (13 miles), wait for the beach restaurant to open, eat, then either spend time on the beach or go right home.

I sometimes go further, but it is tough mentally to do much because there is nothing past that to "go to". I do often go up and around Diamond Head (adds 6 miles), but rarely further.

Maybe if I found shorts that were REALLY comfortable, it might be better, but I think it wouldn't do more than make it more likely that on rare occasions I would ride further, not regularly though.
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Old 09-14-04, 11:31 PM   #34
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Maybe half of my rides are just rides to ride..But about half are for errands, commuting, transportation. Here I do not need pockets...Most extra stuff I can fit into my handlebar bag or into my jersey pockets..Usually at least....
SO I do not normally feel a need for the pockets, my bike shorts don't have...If I am carrying that much stuff, I take my commuter/ touring bike..Plenty of room for stuff there.
Besides, Think I recall, Nashbar had bike shorts with pockets on the sides. Sort of reminded me of a kangaroo's pouch. Don't think I would have a need for those.
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Old 09-14-04, 11:52 PM   #35
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Well, here's something to think about. If wearing regular shorts on top is so bad, what about the cargo type bike shorts that have the usual padded stuff included. I've seen too kinds. One has the padded part sewn into the rest of the shorts, I guess sort of lie a boxer style bathing suit has an inner part (though obviously very thin). I have one of these. I found them to be bulky feeling, but they were the first shorts I got and maybe I didn't fit them well or another brand may suit me better.

The other type has what seems to be something much like regular bike shorts suspended inside the other shorts. The attachment seems to be permanent (and I sure wonder about what you do if one of the two connection points comes loose!). I'm not really sure why they need to be attached at all. After all, since they just hang inside the other shorts, wouldn't it be the same thing as wearing them separately and pulling on the shorts separately?

I've tried one of these on and they felt like a fat diaper. I have not ridden with a pair.

Anyway, it seems to me that if I can find a pair of shorts that actually work for me, I should be able to find thin shorts to wear on top without a bigger problem than these "ready-made" ones do. Those rafting shorts someone mentioned my work, but I haven't had a chance to look into them yet. Even so, I still need bike shorts that work first.

Can someone recommend shorts with three things in mind?:

1. A pad that isn't real thick (I think that is a problem as I often talk about most of the ones I've tried feeling like big diapers). It could conceivably have to do with the width I guess, though I don't know.

2. A leg band that narrows down more than most since I can't get any grip.

3. A particularly comfortable pad material to cut down on that source of irritation.

Item 2 is probably the most important.
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Old 09-15-04, 12:27 PM   #36
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RCF,

Ok, I'd suggest the Etxe-Ondo shorts, the Chamois feels more like a
natural chamois, and is not super thick. They are cut pretty small
so the leg grippers work even on my chicken legs.
Bicycle Hub carries them, last I checked they were going for
something like $45.00 but they are definately worth it.
If you should opt for their bibs they are cut VERY small,
and much of the measure there is lenght, Check with Doug
on sizing he is very helpful.

Marty
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Old 09-15-04, 01:17 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
RCF,

Ok, I'd suggest the Etxe-Ondo shorts, the Chamois feels more like a
natural chamois, and is not super thick. They are cut pretty small
so the leg grippers work even on my chicken legs.
Bicycle Hub carries them, last I checked they were going for
something like $45.00 but they are definately worth it.
If you should opt for their bibs they are cut VERY small,
and much of the measure there is lenght, Check with Doug
on sizing he is very helpful.

Marty
Never heard of those, but I'll look into them. Thanks.
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Old 09-15-04, 05:52 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by TheRCF
Remember, I have trouble with the shorts even if I don't wear others on top. But it would help if I find some shorts that really can be compressed into a very small package - and then find a way to carry that package without a backpack!

Most riders I see here (roadies) are plainly riding just to ride. They are not carrying anything with them, other than stuff on the bike (water bottles and a bag for repairs). But I almost never do that. In fact, I probably wouldn't be riding if that was it. I just have to be going someplace - even if I don't actually have to go. Therefore, I ride to Waikiki (13 miles), wait for the beach restaurant to open, eat, then either spend time on the beach or go right home.

I sometimes go further, but it is tough mentally to do much because there is nothing past that to "go to". I do often go up and around Diamond Head (adds 6 miles), but rarely further.

Maybe if I found shorts that were REALLY comfortable, it might be better, but I think it wouldn't do more than make it more likely that on rare occasions I would ride further, not regularly though.
Okay, sorry... I shouldn't have been so glib in my reply. I have found that you really have to pay for a good pair of bike shorts. If you can swing it, buy a pair of Perl Izumi Microsensor shorts... They are roughly $120. per pair, and seldom on sale. Apparently, Perl does not need to 'push' them out the door. Barring that, your might try the following...

o Cannondale (I've had good luck finding their Chronos $60 shorts on sale for $35 - $40)
o Sugoi (they have a pair with some really nice feeling poly/spandex blend)
o Perl Ultrasensor (these can be found at sale prices if you shop)

Now, I wouldn't want this to get out, but once I picked up a pair of (L) women's shorts by mistake, and wore them for months before I noticed... They fit fine (which may indicate a problem for me), and no one was the wiser... Try it, the women's shorts may have a tighter fitting leg, although the padding will be arranged rather differently... In any case, I still have them, I still ride with them, and psychologically, I am relatively okay.

Keep riding!

/r
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Old 09-15-04, 06:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by TheRCF
Well, that's a better price, for sure. I haven't had a chance to get to a bike shop to find bag balm or chamois cream yet. Heck, I haven't ridden in two days and that is unusual. Sure hope it doesn't rain tomorrow. At least my new tires came in today.

Bob
I think I've seen Bag Balm at Long's before. I know we used to use it when I was a kid for chafing, chapped skin, etc, and my grandmother used to swear by the stuff. I never thought of using it for cycling.

For shorts, you may also want to consider trying out mountain bike shorts - they look like casual nylon shorts and generally have some pockets, but still with the chamois padding, and you may get better comfort that way. My wife has been trying to convince me to dump my old bellwether shorts and switch to mountian bike shorts so I won't look so "1980's" in my cycling shorts.

Aloha,

Rob
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Old 09-15-04, 07:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
4) a gel sort of sports cream won't do it. get Chamois Butt'r, Chamois Cream or Bag Balm
(yeah I know its made for cows but it works). check the archives for info on this.

hope this helps,
Marty

Just a reminder ... Bag Balm smells like

That is all.

-mark
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Old 09-15-04, 08:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Rick O'Getti
Now, I wouldn't want this to get out, but once I picked up a pair of (L) women's shorts by mistake, and wore them for months before I noticed... They fit fine (which may indicate a problem for me), and no one was the wiser... Try it, the women's shorts may have a tighter fitting leg, although the padding will be arranged rather differently... In any case, I still have them, I still ride with them, and psychologically, I am relatively okay.

Keep riding!

/r
Actually, I even tried that when I first realized the leg problem, and as soon as I put them on, the padding felt way off. Of course, like everythnig else, there are many designs so maybe the one I tried was just not the right one.
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Old 09-15-04, 08:19 PM   #42
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I think I've seen Bag Balm at Long's before. I know we used to use it when I was a kid for chafing, chapped skin, etc, and my grandmother used to swear by the stuff. I never thought of using it for cycling.

For shorts, you may also want to consider trying out mountain bike shorts - they look like casual nylon shorts and generally have some pockets, but still with the chamois padding, and you may get better comfort that way. My wife has been trying to convince me to dump my old bellwether shorts and switch to mountian bike shorts so I won't look so "1980's" in my cycling shorts.

Aloha,

Rob
Ah, I have a Longs right across the street at the mall - well, it's a 10 minute walk, but who's counting?

My first shorts were the cargo style with the padding built in (as opposed to the ones that have a separate short suspended by a couple connections). I think I need to find a store with a lot more options. Maybe the solution is to wait till I take a vacation to the mainland (end of this month). There would be lots more stores to check out and probably some pretty big ones.
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Old 09-15-04, 08:22 PM   #43
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Just a reminder ... Bag Balm smells like

That is all.

-mark
Does that mean that Bag Balm smells bad, but the others listed, like chamois cream, does not?

And this may sound dumb, but is this stuff just for use on the butt, or on other private parts as well? I get the same irritation on my butt and the scrotum.
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Old 09-15-04, 08:31 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by TheRCF
Does that mean that Bag Balm smells bad, but the others listed, like chamois cream, does not?

And this may sound dumb, but is this stuff just for use on the butt, or on other private parts as well? I get the same irritation on my butt and the scrotum.
That's an ass ... you make the call. Bag Balm wasn't designed with people in mind unlike most other cremes. It was designed to be used on the nipples of livestock.

Bag Balm can be used anywhere. Por exemplo, I've used it on cracked skin on my fingers before ... there's no doubting that it works.

<hmmm, let's see ... I've used the words "ass," "nipples," and "livestock" all in one post. My work here is done>

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Old 09-15-04, 09:55 PM   #45
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Dang, I just checked Longs Drugs and while they had a heck of a lot of skin cream type stuff, I didn't find any bag balm.
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Old 09-16-04, 02:12 AM   #46
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I have work bike shorts under my duty shorts and notice the difference right away for the better. Still do get interetsing looks from people once in a white but I do not really care anyway...
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Old 09-16-04, 12:19 PM   #47
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Walgreens carries Bag Balm. You can also find brands calling it Udder Balm.
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Old 09-16-04, 02:09 PM   #48
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I have work bike shorts under my duty shorts and notice the difference right away for the better. Still do get interetsing looks from people once in a white but I do not really care anyway...
Just to make sure I understand this, you have bike shorts with regular shorts on top and it is BETTER? What are you using?

I tried my first bike shorts (the ones that look like regular shorts). They are, I think, a little big, though the waist is pretty tight getting them on. The inner, bike short part, seems rather loose to me - but then I may be off in what they SHOULD feel like.

Anyway, on my ride the big problem was irritation at the point where the leg meets the torso. This is basically the biggest problem on all my shorts. Funny thing though, it always seems to be my right leg, not the left. I've been trying to figure out what might be the cause for that, but no luck so far.
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Old 09-16-04, 02:11 PM   #49
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Walgreens carries Bag Balm. You can also find brands calling it Udder Balm.
Hmmm, I don't think we have Walgreens here in Hawaii - at least I never noticed any. Long's seems to be the standard drug store here.
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Old 09-16-04, 02:33 PM   #50
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Howdy Bob,
Butt pain and irritation sucks, been there. Although I am a GIRL, I may be onto a couple things here anyway.
1. Have you tried Chamois Buttr? Great stuff. Cuts down the friction wherever you put it, and cuts down on saddle sore problems. Found at good bike shops and in catalogs.
2. You mentioned that you are wearing your shorts for awhile in between rides. I would suggest NOT leaving your shorts on after a ride if at all possible. The sweat and moisture build up from the ride can cause irritation on your, ahem, parts. My friends call that "making mushrooms." Ick, but you get the point. Those of us with sensitive skin should avoid sitting around in "used" shorts.
3. Find someone who knows what they're doing to fit you to your bike on a trainer, so they can see how you ride. The traditional ways of measuring seat height and angle might not work if done while you're stationary; as you said, you sit farther forward while pedalling vs. just sitting there.
4. Do you have a super soft, gel type saddle on your bike? Oddly enough, the softer the saddle, the more butt pain/sores people seem to get. Counterintuitive, but apparently true. Unless you are just commuting/riding very casually, you might look into a non-gel, firmer saddle.

Hope something here may help, and good luck to you!
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