Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 83
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    My Bikes
    2007 Trek 7.5fx Disc
    Posts
    16
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Drafting Etiquette

    I was cruising along the Hudson River Greenway today on my way home from work when I happened to be barely passed by a couple of guys going slightly faster than my normal cruising speed. I decided to drop in behind them for a bit since they were going my way, the lead on a road bike and the follower on a mtb with slicks.

    Anyways, I end up drafting off them for a good 3 miles or so before my turn off and it helped me easily gain about 3 mph over my usual pace and expend a lot less energy.

    My question is, do you generally mind when people are sucking your wind? It seemed like they knew each other, and they knew what I was up to. They never seemed annoyed or said anything to me. It was actually a nice break on my way home to not have to fight the wind off the water for the whole 5 miles.

    But, being new to cycling I didn't want to do anything rude or break some kind of unwritten code. Also, I don't know physics that well but was I making the lead guy work harder to "pull" me forward?

    just wondering how you guys feel about strangers pacing you when you are out for a ride?

  2. #2
    Senior Member CNY James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    My Bikes
    2010 Felt F5, 2010 Dawes SST-AL
    Posts
    809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've never had it happen during a normal ride but during charity ride or group ride, I dont mind per se but I appreciate it when/if they take a turn too. The very few times that I've done it, I make sure to reciprocate as well. I never felt a difference when there were guys in my draft.

  3. #3
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Best to let them know you are there at the least, if not ask if they mind...and share some of the pulling.

    That said, I tend to get irked by wheel suckers when out for a nice ride with my wife.
    Sometimes people want to spend time with themselves without the peanut gallery tagging along.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  4. #4
    Cyclocross - Go anywhere! sd_mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    My Bikes
    2011 Fuji Cross 2.0, 2008 Fuji Cross Comp
    Posts
    405
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I consider it a safety issue. If I need to stop, swerve, avoid a hazard - I don't need someone right behind me that shouldn't be there. Drafting - when you know they are there and signal each other; Tailgaiting - when you don't know they are there or know they are and are not "together". If I find it to be a problem, I'll tell them to either pass, back off, or stay out of my way. I need not wreck because of something caused by them.
    Finally riding again after my accident in Dec 2011.

  5. #5
    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    5,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    On a road it's cool, whatever... but if somebody is drafting me on a MUP i'll get pissed. This greenway is a MUP? If so... hah, i think i'd consider it rude since it's endangering my safety if i have to brake/corner and other's saftey because you're tailgating and can't quite see obstacles of which there is a lot on a MUP. I'd wave you off or back if you didn't pass.

  6. #6
    Senior Member damnpoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Monterey Bay Area
    Posts
    478
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I figure I'd still be blasting along whether I had someone behind me or not so why should I care if they latch on? I do it too.

  7. #7
    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Munising, Michigan, USA
    My Bikes
    Hifi 29er, Stumpy 29er, Rockhopper 29er, ...
    Posts
    1,762
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've only ever been drafted one time. Didn't realize it until I stopped for a break. I almost did my usual thing of slamming on the brakes to a hard stop, but at the last second decided to coast to a stop since I was going up a steep hill anyway. That turned out to be a good decision for the guy behind me.

  8. #8
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    I ride where the thylacine roamed!
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    39,509
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wheelsucking is rude and unsafe.

    Rude, because you are riding in someone's personal space without introducing yourself and engaging in pleasantries ... social etiquette.

    Unsafe, because if you hit the rider in front of you, you will very likely go down. It is not the responsibility of the rider whose wheel you are sucking to point out hazards, to signal for your benefit, or to ride in a predictable manner. The rider whose wheel you are sucking could dodge a pothole, and you could end up in it. The rider could suddenly slow down with no indication, and you could end up wrapped up in his/her wheel. Or the rider may meander a bit, slow and speed up, and do all sorts of things.

    If the riders in question didn't seem to mind ... it probably wasn't the end of the world. But next time you're tempted, at least introduce yourself and ask if it is OK with them if you tag along.

  9. #9
    Soma Lover
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Logan, UT
    My Bikes
    one bike for every day of the week
    Posts
    765
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It really depends on the situation.

    When I'm commuting about town amongst traffic and with panniers, make sure I know you're there. Say Hi and take a blow for a minute or two before moving on at your own pace and I don't mind. To just jump in behind me can be dangerous. I tend to ride aggressively with 32c randoneering tires on bombproof wheels. If I don't know you're there, I won't point out obstacles and may not give you any indication that I'm about to go alley cat on you, hop a curb, and cut through a vacant lot.

    When I'm out for a casual road ride, make sure I know you're there and pay attention to the particular "group dynamic" that's going on. Most of the time I don't care. OTOH, if it's just me and K and another couple and it seems like we're cycling up the canyon for a picnic, we may be in search of some alone time. I don't mind your taking a rest for a few minutes and continuing on with your own ride but be careful about becoming a third wheel.

    On big charity rides, it's a given. People will draft off of the horses. If someone is out in search of alone time, you won't find them there. If you're one of the horses, take it as a complement. If you're one of the hangers on:

    Point out obstacles. Learn and use the hand signals. Rotate through and take your turn at the front even if you can only do it for 30-60 seconds at a time. Keep the padals moving, especially if you're in a big group on level ground. When you stop pedaling, those behind you will assume you're reacting to a situation and may unnecessarily apply their brakes endangering others. Do not touch people on the arms. If the wind makes conversation impossible, a light touch above the hip will let them know you're there.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Middle of da Mitten
    My Bikes
    Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent
    Posts
    7,278
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You should get permission by the person you're drafting. It may affect the manner in which they ride; for instance doing the things Machka points out. Maybe they don't want to be bothered to point out obstacles to you, in which case you should leave them alone.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Near Sacramento
    Posts
    4,874
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ASK! Yes, I yelled it. It's very poor manners to latch on without asking. Many of the reasons were mentioned above.

    If you do ask, and it's ok, then make sure to take your turn at the front.
    -------

    Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.

  12. #12
    .
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, Oregon
    My Bikes
    Moots Psychlo-x ybb, Soma ES, Trek 950
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sd_mike View Post
    I consider it a safety issue. If I need to stop, swerve, avoid a hazard - I don't need someone right behind me that shouldn't be there. Drafting - when you know they are there and signal each other; Tailgaiting - when you don't know they are there or know they are and are not "together". If I find it to be a problem, I'll tell them to either pass, back off, or stay out of my way. I need not wreck because of something caused by them.
    I agree. I don't know the person behind me so I don't know what to expect and they don't know how I ride either. What I usually do is see how fit they are. I pick up about a mph per mile until they aren't there anymore.
    Demented internet tail wagging imbicile.

  13. #13
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Get off my wheel!

    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  14. #14
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    30,174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What Machka said.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    My Bikes
    Trek SU100, Surly Cross Check
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think it's particularly rude, but it's definitely unsafe.

    If you're within drafting distance, you have very little space to react if they decide to stop. Someone who is riding alone or side-by-side isn't likely to signal his slow downs and a lot less likely to signal an emergency stop. This means that you get to run into them if that happens.

    Otherwise, I don't really think it's "rude." Sure, it may feel uncomfortable to feel like someone is following you, but most bicyclists know what drafting is. You being behind them would only affect their aerodynamics slightly, and more likely positively, as it would reduce the effect of the ow-pressure and high turbulence zone right behind them (but this effect is pretty much negligible). Basically, no, you're not causing them extra work.

  16. #16
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by itsthewoo View Post
    I don't think it's particularly rude, but it's definitely unsafe.

    If you're within drafting distance, you have very little space to react if they decide to stop. Someone who is riding alone or side-by-side isn't likely to signal his slow downs and a lot less likely to signal an emergency stop. This means that you get to run into them if that happens.

    Otherwise, I don't really think it's "rude." Sure, it may feel uncomfortable to feel like someone is following you, but most bicyclists know what drafting is. You being behind them would only affect their aerodynamics slightly, and more likely positively, as it would reduce the effect of the ow-pressure and high turbulence zone right behind them (but this effect is pretty much negligible). Basically, no, you're not causing them extra work.
    Tell me it's not rude when I spot you and your wife/gf out for a nice romantic dinner and decide not only to join you uninvited...but to let you pay the check too. Sometimes it is rude to intrude into people's space.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    My Bikes
    Trek SU100, Surly Cross Check
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    Tell me it's not rude when I spot you and your wife/gf out for a nice romantic dinner and decide not only to join you uninvited...but to let you pay the check too. Sometimes it is rude to intrude into people's space.
    Poor analogy. A couple having a "nice romantic dinner" is not analogous to two people going fast enough to draft.

    Edit: And why would s/he have to pay the check for your dinners? Again, drafters cause you no extra work, so other than the safety issue, there's really nothing to get pissy about.

  18. #18
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    30,174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by itsthewoo View Post
    I don't think it's particularly rude, but it's definitely unsafe.

    If you're within drafting distance, you have very little space to react if they decide to stop. Someone who is riding alone or side-by-side isn't likely to signal his slow downs and a lot less likely to signal an emergency stop. This means that you get to run into them if that happens.

    Otherwise, I don't really think it's "rude." Sure, it may feel uncomfortable to feel like someone is following you, but most bicyclists know what drafting is. You being behind them would only affect their aerodynamics slightly, and more likely positively, as it would reduce the effect of the ow-pressure and high turbulence zone right behind them (but this effect is pretty much negligible). Basically, no, you're not causing them extra work.
    If you're close enough to draft, you're close enough to eavesdrop on their conversation. Which is rude.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    My Bikes
    Trek SU100, Surly Cross Check
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    If you're close enough to draft, you're close enough to eavesdrop on their conversation. Which is rude.
    If you're going fast enough to be drafted, you're unlikely to be having much of a conversation.

    Besides, if he's a complete stranger, who cares?

  20. #20
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    30,174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, I grant you that my early morning conversations with my buddy JF aren't on the level of Tolkien and Lewis walking the canal paths of Oxford, but they're still chats between friends. And lately, at the height of race season, they take place at 21mph. And Sacramento is still a small town, so there's rarely more than a few degrees of separation.

    I still think it's rude.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    47
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I did it once last year, while out riding road riding. A roadie passed me, and I was feeling good enough to try and keep up. BUT, I made sure to leave a few feet of clearance between me and him. And realized I was wholly responsible for avoiding any mishaps. I'd like to think it wasn't rude. But maybe it was, and I should ask the riders permission next time.

    I don't really do much road riding anymore these days. But back when I did it regularly, I would get the occasional rider tagging along behind me. It didn't bother me. But we all perceive and react to things differently.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    My Bikes
    Trek SU100, Surly Cross Check
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Runner View Post
    I did it once last year, while out riding road riding. A roadie passed me, and I was feeling good enough to try and keep up. BUT, I made sure to leave a few feet of clearance between me and him. And realized I was wholly responsible for avoiding any mishaps. I'd like to think it wasn't rude. But maybe it was, and I should ask the riders permission next time.

    I don't really do much road riding anymore these days. But back when I did it regularly, I would get the occasional rider tagging along behind me. It didn't bother me. But we all perceive and react to things differently.
    I doubt you were legitimately drafting if there was more than a foot between your front tire and his rear tire.

    Edit: In this case, it sounds more like he was pacing you.

  23. #23
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by itsthewoo View Post
    Poor analogy. A couple having a "nice romantic dinner" is not analogous to two people going fast enough to draft.

    Edit: And why would s/he have to pay the check for your dinners? Again, drafters cause you no extra work, so other than the safety issue, there's really nothing to get pissy about.
    Are you claiming that my wife and I can't spend romantic time together on our bikes...as we do?
    Why do you feel the need to interrupt our time together?
    Do you think the chicks will dig you more if it seems like you have friends?
    Do you understand the concept of good manners?

    Also, your assumption that people only attempt to wheel-suck when we are going "fast enough to draft" is incorrect.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  24. #24
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by itsthewoo View Post
    If you're going fast enough to be drafted, you're unlikely to be having much of a conversation.

    Besides, if he's a complete stranger, who cares?
    You keep making false assumptions. I'll write if off to inexperience.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  25. #25
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    My Bikes
    Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
    Posts
    24,373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by itsthewoo View Post
    I doubt you were legitimately drafting if there was more than a foot between your front tire and his rear tire.

    Edit: In this case, it sounds more like he was pacing you.
    OMG, his draft wasn't legitimate....yeah, that makes all the difference.

    Dude, why is it so hard for you to understand that just because a group of people are riding bikes, that they may not want to include you in their group and/or make you privy to their conversations....at any speed?
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •