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Old 09-20-04, 11:41 AM   #1
Raiyn
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I've just spent the most frustrating hour of my LIFE speaking to the customer service department of Master Lock. (800) 308-9244 I was calling to find out what action they were taking in regards to replacing their BiC-able locks. I started out very friendly and understanding with the first representative as she was having difficulty locating my street cuffs Street Cuffs (this link worked at the time) She said that I could call back when I had the information, which I did.

The second representative seemed uninterested in following up with me on a solution to the issue at hand, she placed me on hold after informing me that she would need to speak to a supervisor. She came back on the line to tell me that she could not find a supervisor and that she would need to place me on hold again in order to get a supervisor. No problem I waited for a couple of minutes then I heard a click as if she were coming back on the line only to be met by silence, no hold music, nothing a minute or so later I get the "If you'd like to make a call please hang up and try your call again message".

I call back and demand to speak to a supervisor I get placed on hold a minute or two later I get the "I can't find my supervisor can I place you on hold again" speil. I get placed on hold AGAIN and again the person disconnects me after a minute or so.

I call back yet AGAIN. This time I ACTUALLY get to speak with a supervisor. I explain the situation to her that I have their products which have been shown to be easily compromised with a BiC pen. I explain what locks I ask what actions are being taken to solve this problem. She informs me that if I'd like to send the locks back (at MY expense) they'll replace them for me. Great wonderful, I think I ask her what they intend to replace them with she tells me they'll be replaced by new items of the same model numbers as my products. "The problem is with the style of keyway used in those products" to which she replies "we have several different levels of locks not all of which are affected by your situation" I reply "I understand that. My locks ARE affected. I want to know what steps your company is taking." She again asks me what locks I own, I repeat the information back to her and she again replies with the "several different levels speech" This goes back and forth ad nauseum until I ask to speak to someone in the product development department.

CSSupervisor: "They're not availiable"
ME: "Why not" I ask "Why can't I speak to someone who knows what your company is doing about this situation? I have $X,XXX worth of bikes locked up with your products and I want to know what you're doing to fix this issue."
CSS: "You said you have bicycles sir?"
ME:"Yes I do and I don't want them stolen my some schmuck with a Bic pen"
CSS: "Master Lock has a theft guarantee"
ME: "Yeah what's your point? Your locks can't protect my bike."
CSS: "That's not my problem sir, we have a guarantee on our bicycle products."
ME: "Look I UNDERSTAND that. You also have a LIFETIME warranty on your products should they be shown to be defective do you not?"
CSS: "Yes"
ME: "Then I would like to know what steps your company is taking in order to rectify this issue"
CSS: "We'll send you new locks"
ME: "I don't want locks with the barrel style key way because people have proven to me that they can be opened with a PEN"
CSS: "Is there anything else I can help you with?"
ME: "You can answer my question - What is MASTER LOCK going to do about this situation?"
CSS: "I don't have that information"
ME: "Then I want to speak to someone that does"
CSS: "They're in the building but they're unavailable."
ME: "Why can't I speak to someone who knows what's gong on?"
CSS: "They aren't available"
ME: "Then I want to speak to YOUR supervisor"
CSS: "That person is unavailable, can I have your information please?"
ME: "Mr. _________ (###)###-####"
CSS: "I'll forward your information I'm terminating this call"
ME: "Hold on, why can't I speak to someone else?"
CSS: ______dialtone_____

I called back and demanded to speak to someone from "Product Development". I was placed on hold.
CS Representative: "I see someone let me see if they are available. Can I put you on hold?"
ME: "Sure"
CSR: "Is this Mr___________"
ME: "Yes"
CSR; "Someone will contact you" __disconnect___

I called back a couple more times and got the same basic response.

EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING.
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Old 09-20-04, 12:10 PM   #2
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Hmm, maybe this should be sent in to the press. Let them know masterlock's CS is being rather hostile to requests about this issue. Eitherway, their products were less than great. All it took to take out one of their "bulletproof" locks was a hammer and screwdriver.
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Old 09-20-04, 12:14 PM   #3
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Eww...that doesn't sound fun.

I didn't realize some of the Masterlocks were "Bic-able" as well. I assume this is something you tried on one of your locks before calling? This is getting frustrating because I was planning on buying a new locks soon and apparently now my two top choices are out of the question.
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Old 09-20-04, 12:21 PM   #4
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Abus. Squire. OnGuard.
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Old 09-20-04, 12:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlucky13
Eww...that doesn't sound fun.

I didn't realize some of the Masterlocks were "Bic-able" as well. I assume this is something you tried on one of your locks before calling? This is getting frustrating because I was planning on buying a new locks soon and apparently now my two top choices are out of the question.
They sure are. I'm most likely going to be going with OnGuard as soon as I know what's going on with these companies' courses of action will be.

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Hmm, maybe this should be sent in to the press. Let them know masterlock's CS is being rather hostile to requests about this issue. Eitherway, their products were less than great. All it took to take out one of their "bulletproof" locks was a hammer and screwdriver.

I couldn't agree more
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Old 09-20-04, 02:58 PM   #6
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Get this: I just got off the phone with the Product Manager at Master Lock turns out that.

A lock that can be compromised with a BiC pen is "Not Defective"



Product Manager: Please tell me what it is that you've told out customer service representatives.
ME: I told them that I had three locks that were able to be compromised by BiC pens and that i wanted to know what your company would do about it.
PM: We have a lifetime warranty on our locks and if you'd like we'd be happy to exchange your locks for new one of the same model.
ME: That doesn't solve the problem.
PM: What problem?
ME: The problem is that your locks are defective due to the fact that they can be opened with a BiC pen!
PM: All locks can be compromised in one way or another (proceds to list several ways) so we don't feel that a lock being compromised by a BiC pen as a defect.
ME: Yes but you don't see people walking down the street with bolt cutters in their back pocket, but you can find a pen in any school kid's backpack.
ME: I can understand bolt cutters, freon, Rifles -You know "Tough Under Fire" sledgehammers and so on but a ten cent BiC pen?

(We go back and forth on the BiC pen issue for several minutes)
PM: We can offer you three U Locks with flat keys but they aren't as secure as the locks that you have.
ME: I beg to differ at least those can't be opened with a BiC pen.
ME: Why won't you admit that people opening your locks with a pen is a problem?
PM: Because it isn't
ME: (incredulous) So I'm supposed to trust locks that I know can be opened with a BiC pen and that you won't admit that a pen being able to open your locks is a defect.
PM: A pen opening a lock isn't a defect.
ME: I'm sorry you feel this way. Your competitor Kryptonite obviously feels differently in this matter they've admitted that it is a problem and are taking steps to solve the problem.
PM: Our locks are different - We use a different style of lock than they do.
ME: What makes it different?
PM: That's proprietary information that I can't give you.
ME: What is it different pin tensions? (I then give a dissertation on the differences between the ACE I and ACE II cylinder and state that that had minimal impact on people opening the lock)
PM: We have one of the top five lock engineers in the world working on this and he hasn't proven that our locks can be opened by a pen.
ME: I know college students who'd be happy to demonstrate
Customer Service Manager: Sir we've offered you a solution: We can exchange your locks for the flat key style which we don't feel is as secure as the ones you currently have
ME: You haven't offered me an acceptable solution, you haven't even acknowledged that there IS a problem. With all the media exposure this is receiving you'd THINK you might want to take this more seriously.
PM: We've dealt with the media - We released a statement (Found elsewhere) there's nothing that you can tell the media that we haven't covered.
ME: I'll bet.
PM: Now you can take the offer that we've given or you can decline:
ME: Unacceptable
PM: That's your decsion Mr.____
ME: _hang up_
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Old 09-20-04, 03:21 PM   #7
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Unbelievable Raiyn!!! Now my head REALLY hurts!
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Old 09-20-04, 03:25 PM   #8
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Sad but true.
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Old 09-20-04, 03:25 PM   #9
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Wow...I am impressed with your patience. I love the theory...

We will exchange your easy to break into locks with a more current model that is equally easy to break into. Your welcome have a nice day

Kudos to Kryptonite for at least admitting there is a problem. Locks are meant to be locked and at difficult to open. A bic pen opening it is defective. Well at least now I know what I will never buy.
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Old 09-20-04, 03:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Wow...I am impressed with your patience. I love the theory...

We will exchange your easy to break into locks with a more current model that is equally easy to break into. Your welcome have a nice day

Kudos to Kryptonite for at least admitting there is a problem. Locks are meant to be locked and at difficult to open. A bic pen opening it is defective. Well at least now I know what I will never buy.
This whole this started at 11:30 this morning and dragged on untill about 4:30 PM when they made the call I refer to in my last post. Beleive me I'm not happy about the situation and a lawyer has contacted me in reference to the matter (for my side). I won't go into details on what was discussed: he can make his own determination on the next course of action.
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Old 09-20-04, 03:58 PM   #11
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thanks for sharing that. i hope this makes people less hard on Kryptonite. i'm glad i cancelled my order on those cuffs :>
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Old 09-20-04, 04:15 PM   #12
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I'm returning the giant Masterlock padlock I bought to replace my EV Disc tonight, then! I'm glad I didn't open the packaging this morning... took the train instead
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Old 09-20-04, 04:43 PM   #13
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They offered you flat key U-locks. What's the problem? Sorry they weren't nicer.
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Old 09-20-04, 04:47 PM   #14
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Loosing one's temper with a humanoid phone voice isn't going to get you anywhere

Granted all buyers of locks are now in a quandry, and patience is wearing thin

Getting involved with a lawyer is equally futile. Class action suits rage on for years and

the poor consumer wins up with pennies and the legalshysters wind up with millions

I had a call this afternoon from a rep from Kryptonite, I was polite with her and she

was polite with me. Told me to go to their web site and follow the directions therein.

Which I did. If I get a replacement fine, if not, fine also. its not as if 40$ is going to

break my piggy bank

What I will do some time in the future is to get a lock made in AMERICA and not in GD

China and then sell my hi end bike and get something far less expensive and attractive

to potential thieves, and ride it happily and get off the snob infested bike paths

Same thing happened when I owned a hi end German sports car, starting with P.

Stolen twice. The insurance went to mid 4 figures per year, sold the car though it

was the finest thing I had ever driven and missed it sorely . Have owned a non descript

US bilt thing since and no one ever looks twice at it, fits me fine and the insurance is

mid 3 figures

Rant and rave all you like but JEEEZZZZZZ 40$ or 50$ to protect something one might

pay several thousand $s for, priorities seem a bit squeewed to me
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Old 09-20-04, 05:31 PM   #15
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I'd say it's the principle of the thing. Successful businesses are supposed to get that way by serving their customers - that would be the origin of the term "customer service" - and not by ripping them off or giving them the runaround. Unfortunately a lot of otherwise good companies (and also some bad ones) seem to have gotten this concept all twisted around backwards lately.

IMO, there's really no excuse for Master Lock's reluctance to adequately and honestly address this issue; they're a big company, and I'm sure they'll survive if they have to replace a few defective locks for free. And I'm sure their customer's brand loyalty would be a lot higher if they would just have been honest and forthright about this issue from the get go.

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Old 09-20-04, 05:51 PM   #16
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When you see that Kryptonite has not only admitted the problem but is taking steps to rectify it, it's surreal that Master Lock is taking the M$oft approach "It's not a bug, it's a feature".. I ended up getting an OnGuard Brute mini. I like it although the unidirectional U is taking some getting used to....

The Beach Scooter price for the Boxer looks not bad ($29 USD).
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Old 09-20-04, 06:02 PM   #17
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You have to remember, masterlock's own stacked plate lock design has been critically flawed for years. 2 minutes with a hammer and screwdriver will snap the lock body in half, releasing the lock...they are the worst of lock makers IMO due to their lack of care for the consumer, trying to sell a cheap lock at a premium price. Actually I found brass body locks to be more secure...at least they require powertools to get into without picking....
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Old 09-20-04, 06:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
Cutomer Service Manager: Sir we've offered you a solution: We can exchange your locks for the flat key style which we don't feel is as secure as the ones you currently have
ME: You haven't offered me an acceptable solution, you haven't even acknowledged that there IS a problem. With all the media exposure this is recieveing you'd THINK you might want to take this more seriously.
I'm sorry, they offered you a lock with a flat key in exchange. That lock can't be picked with a BiC. Exactly why is it that you didn't take them up on that offer and have a nice day?
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Old 09-20-04, 06:25 PM   #19
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Like I always say, "they've always gotcha by the balls."
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Old 09-20-04, 06:32 PM   #20
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Wow I can't believe the way Masterlock has acted over all this. I'd rather stick with Kryptonite than deal those stuck up attitudes. Besides who cares if he is the in the top 5 lock makers in the world. Were talking about breaking lock not making lock. They should think about how these lock might be broken when they build them not how to make them.

In my opinion they should be hire x-street thugs to build locks. Kind of like the guy that made millions on check security because he was such a good criminal at writing bad checks and making false IDs he actually put that energy to good use.
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Old 09-20-04, 06:36 PM   #21
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Perhaps MasterLock has decided to go down the 'deny and delay' path of corporate responsibility.

Pity.
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Old 09-20-04, 06:42 PM   #22
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Yeah that's why Americans love seeing Corporate Executive go to prison. How ya doing Martha?
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Old 09-20-04, 07:58 PM   #23
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Yeah that's why Americans love seeing Corporate Executive go to prison. How ya doing Martha?

Apparently, she's suffering for "The Cause" just like Nelson Mandela did.

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Old 09-20-04, 08:02 PM   #24
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Bull$%^@. That's like homosexuals saying they suffering like Blacks did throughout the Civil Right's Movement. Sorry but I don't see many gays being linched or water fountains with gay one one and straight on the other.

Sorry, just venting.

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Old 09-20-04, 08:28 PM   #25
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Hmmm... You must read different papers than I do, Funbun. No separate drinking fountains I'll grant you; but homosexuals are lynched regularly in some parts of the country. Still, if you feel the need to discuss further, I'd suggest opening a thread in Politics.
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