Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-28-10, 04:52 AM   #1
Doug5150
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: IL-USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are there any hub-center-steering bicycles?

On another bicycle forum the subject of hub-center steering came up. There's a few motorcycle examples of this dating back at least 90 years, but no bicycle examples that I could find in a few days of online searching, or anyone else knew of.

There are many forkless designs, but not all forkless types are hub-center steering.
The type I am looking for is specific: those with a stationary axle that extends completely through the wheel, with a movable bearing carrier attached to that part to allow left-right steering. These types all use relatively large-diameter wheel bearings, since the entire turning pivot must be contained inside the diameter of the front wheel bearings. They also typically use connecting suspension pieces on both sides of the wheel.

The basic design is shown here, as the "DiFazio" diagram:
http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Steer/STEER.htm

Two vintage examples are the 1921 Neracar-
http://www.bikeexif.com/1921-ner-a-car
and the 1929 Majestic-
http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/200...estic-new.html

A modern example would be the Bimota Tesi 3D-
http://www.webbikeworld.com/bimota/tesi-3d/

These examples are not identical; there are variations on this based on how they fix the rake angle and how they deal with braking forces (if a front brake is present) but they all share the same basic mechanics--with the huge-diameter wheel bearings--since the entire steering pivot must fit inside the wheel bearings' diameter.

--------

Any examples would be helpful, even custom/show bikes.

And I'm not claiming that [for a bicycle at least] there are much of any significant technical advantages to this type of steering but that doesn't matter much, since the end purpose is for a custom cruiser bicycle. I just want to know if it's ever been done before.

So far, every example I have found of forkless bicycle steering is a monofork or a kingpin/knuckle joint type, like this-
http://www.bike-trend.com/forkless-b...kkila-bicycle/
This above is NOT what I am looking for.
Also note that this type connects the wheel to the frame on one side of the wheel only--it isn't possible to have linking pieces on both sides of the wheel, since you cannot reach the wheel's pivot point from both sides of the wheel.

????????????????
~
Doug5150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 11:42 AM   #2
tatfiend 
Gear Hub fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes: Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
Posts: 2,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IMO this should have been posted in the C&V forum as they are familiar with many early and wonderous bicycle designs.
__________________
Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/
tatfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 12:12 PM   #3
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,697
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Some design school projects come out from time to time, but though they look good,
don't go further than a prototype.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 04:55 PM   #4
Arcanum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: 2010 Kona Dr. Dew, Moose Bicycle XXL (fat bike), Yuba Mundo V3
Posts: 903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub-center_steering

It sounds like the benefits for bicycles would be limited at best. I could see it maybe being useful for things like front-loading cargo bikes such as CETMAcargo, or exotic reverse-trike and quad cycle configurations. I'm not sure if mountain bikes have enough of the same problems with their front suspensions that motorcycles do to make it worthwhile there.
Arcanum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 05:20 PM   #5
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 11,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Bike development tends to come from racing and trickle down. Anything that adds a couple of pounds is the kiss of death.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 05:42 PM   #6
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,697
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
having a High powered motor helps . measured in HP rather than a few watts.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 08:33 PM   #7
Flying Merkel
Senior Member
 
Flying Merkel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Costa Mesa CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
There's a saying in the motorcycle world that the conventional fork is the worst suspension design- except all the others. Can't see a real-world benefit to hub center steering.
Flying Merkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-10, 10:00 PM   #8
XR2
Senior Member
 
XR2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Back in the hills again
Bikes: 88 Bridgestone T700
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Having ridden both the Tesi and the Yamaha GTS I can say they are different. Very different. I could see the design being nice on a velomobile or perhaps a 'bent. The attendant hardware would not be welcome weight nor would doing it w/o suspension. Composite and ultralight metals would be best suited. I say if ya want one start studying and build one. Can't say I've ever seen a bicycle with this,not that I've seen everything either.

Give James Parker of RADD Technologies a yell. He's the guy who designed the Yamaha GTS and a genuine nice guy. He may be able to answer the question.
XR2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:53 AM.